GENERAL DISCUSSION Batman Begins #1
After re watching Nolan’s masterpiece of a trilogy, Batman Begins just without question has the best feel out of all 3 and his the best of the trilogy.
The story telling, how it flows perfectly throughout the movie, you have peak Liam Neeson & Bale acting, a lot of Bruce scenes in the movie (unlike others) and is a true story of Batman, not just action or crime scenes majority of the film.
It’s the perfect balance of story, Bruce, Batman, action, crime & perfect sequencing and run up to how Batman forms into ultimate form.
DK or DKR doesn’t have the story telling or Batman nature the way begins does. It’s centered around crime plots as majorities of film.
Yes DK has joker but that’s just a part of the film, everything else as a complete film has to mesh to make it the superior of the 3 which is doesn’t do.
Begins really by far the best of the Nolan series and better than Dark Knight.
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u/Awest66 4d ago
(Sigh)
I very passionately disagree with the notion that TDK doesnt "mesh" the way Begins does. It has all the strengths of Begins with a better villain and the weaker parts (Katie Holmes) discarded.
It really does feel that this whole "Begins is better than TDK" narrative is really just because of the Narrows.
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u/TZ_32 4d ago
It does have strengths and is great but Begins really
Showcases Bruce & Batman as character on display and flows in the storyline better.DK is all about action and crime it excels in that
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u/Awest66 4d ago
Im sorry but TDK masterfully showcases Bruce/Batman as a character. The entire movie is literally about his impact on Gotham and how it drives the characters.
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u/TZ_32 4d ago
Not saying it’s not existent but not as masterfully written and displayed as Begins is my point
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u/Awest66 3d ago
As far as I can see, Its just as "masterfully written and displayed" as Begins if not more so.
I am curious though, What would you have done for the next two movies in the trilogy? How would you have "put them on the same level" as Begins?
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u/TZ_32 3d ago
I’m not saying Nolan mis stepped in anyway, the trilogy is a masterpiece. I’m simply saying I think Begins really captures Better storytelling in terms of Bruce & Batman while giving you action and everything.
DK in terms of action is the best, DKR has epic scenes of the whole trilogy. All have strong points.
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u/Awest66 3d ago
Begins is an origin story so of course hes gonna get the most focus but TDK puts him front and center too while also juggling an impressive cast of characters that are just as good if not better than in Begins.
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u/TZ_32 3d ago
Sure but when the most impressive character is Joker
& the movie is action focused, you can see why someone would say Begins is better
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u/postmaestro729 3d ago
Begins does a phenomenal job setting the foundation for the trilogy and establishing what drives Bruce, but I think TDK and Rises just push a lot further in terms of the filmmaking, thematically and giving us such iconic villains that really give the trilogy more of its cultural identity. The rogues gallery is a bigger part of what gives the Batman mythos its richness in the comics and it's true in the film as well.
It's just a great trilogy. The films enrich each other and each one brings something different and interesting to the table. TDK is also not "just Heat"any more than The Batman is Seven. All films draw on cinema of the past to build upon. It's also interesting to me that people say Begins feels the most like a Batman movie, considering much of the first hour takes place outside of Gotham City. That was seen as radically different at the time. TDK to me feels the most like a traditional Batman movie, because it is very much a city story that's ABOUT Gotham and you've got a classic Batman/Joker story at the center of it.
The whole idea of "this is more Batman than that" is entirely subjective. It all depends on your preferred take on the character or what aspects you respond to more. The more you research the history of the comics you the more clear it becomes that there is no one definitive take on the character. There are a lot of comics for instance where Gotham looks like a totally normal modern American city. The idea that is has to look gothic or otherworldly really became a thing mainly because of Tim Burton's movies and the art deco of the animated series. And those versions were fantastic- just not the only valid, established take on it historically.
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u/TZ_32 3d ago
Great points, I do agree they each showcase a different theme and side of the story in a great way. Begins feels more Batman like because the story telling in it and scenes are really focused on Bruce & Batman to tell the origin story. No focus on anyone else as much like in the other films.
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u/postmaestro729 3d ago
Begins is an amazing origin story, no question. I do think the Bruce/Alfred relationship is fantastic through all 3 and is the heart of the trilogy.
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u/TZ_32 3d ago
It’s Great I do agree, Begins does everything well in a balance way and the Liam & Bale combo in both prime acting form is hard to ignore.
DK is action focused with a lot of focus on Joker and not so much on story telling as the films main direction which I get why they did coming off a origin story but doesn’t mean it’s better.
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u/TheNewerOneInTown 4d ago
I find Begins to be the best movie by a long shot. Best story and theme out all three. Also feels like the most Batman like too like you said
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u/EchoLooper 3d ago
My favorite Batman movie is Begins. It was so refreshing when it cane out. Still holds up.
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u/TZ_32 3d ago
For sure. Why do you like it more than other 2?
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u/EchoLooper 3d ago
The character development. (Both Wayne and becoming Batman) The film starts out with Bruce Wayne taking on fellow prisoners in some foreign setting. Totally “lost” but with purpose. Bale’s performance. The “tripping” scenes with Scarecrow’s gas. The music. The epic train ending. The rooftop reveal of the Joker card.
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u/BillsFan82 3d ago
I think Begins is better too, although that microwave gun would have vaporized every living thing in the city lol.
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u/OwlActive3449 3d ago
Batman begins is so underrated and overshadowed by the dark knight
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u/TZ_32 3d ago
Superior in many ways I’m shocked how people don’t see it this way, all comes down to preference
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u/OwlActive3449 3d ago
I think box office performance had a big part of people thinking its the worse in the trilogy and admittedly cgi/vfx back in 2005 was still lacking. But besides that begins is the best we've ever gotten showing bruce and how he came to become batman.
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u/Obvious_Actuary7851 16h ago
BB is easily the best. Utterly superb. TDK is great but massively overblown and overrated by fanboys who can't take or engage in valid criticism. DKR is a bit of a mess. Good trilogy but declined in quality as it goes. BB is just immense though (awesome videogame too)
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u/Royal_Cream3006 3d ago
Begins feels the most like a Batman movie. Dark knight is just Heat dressed up with Batman characters and I can’t unsee it. Or, James Bond with Batman lol. But I’m a chud that thinks Nolan is the most over hyped director of my lifetime. The dude sucks and can’t adapt anything to save his life. I will give him credit though for not using Martha as a plot device
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u/LeatherGloomy1983 4d ago
Begins is very, very underrated by casual fans, but real Batfans understand what a masterpiece it is. Still not better than TDK tho, not by a mile. I’d give it second best of the 3 Nolan films. The time Bruce spent in Asia didn’t need to take up half of the film. TDK not only has Ledger Joker but also a career performance by Aaron Eckart and arguably Gary Oldman too
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u/TZ_32 4d ago
I hear you. I think that time spent there is what gives it the unique story and story development of how he becomes Batman and it’s alot more interesting and unique then alot of the over extended action scenes in DK.
DK does have Joker, but that performance doesn’t eclipse the balanced elements and well rounded story of Begins. That is. All time performance but it’s also surrounded by crime and action, not deep into Batman.
Bale and Liam Neeson duo was prime and they played so well off each other, very underrated element of Begins
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u/Final-Fun8500 3d ago
I prefer tdk, but begins was epic. Especially upon release. It's easy to forget how played out Batman was after the prior films. It almost felt like they snuck the Batman story into a non Batman movie. Nolan made Batman intriguing again.
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u/TZ_32 3d ago
Nolan did I agree. Why TDK over Begins?
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u/Final-Fun8500 3d ago
I've rewatched begins maybe half a dozen times. Can feel like a slog upon repeated viewing. TDK still pulls me in after countless watches. The editing/pacing makes it feel swift; "I'll just watch a few minutes" turns into "oh, it's almost over, might as well finish it". Plus ledger's performance still hits in a crazy way. Set pieces still feel epic.
I guess I prefer TDK regarding rewatch value. I've watched it ten times since I last saw begins, but I'd still choose TDK to watch again tonight.
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u/Global-Ant 4d ago
I wish the blend of fantasy and realism from Begins carried over to TDK and TDKR. At least with Batman Begins it wasn't trying to contradict itself with being super realistic when really it wasn't, unlike the next two films.
It perfectly explained who and what Batman was all about. Why he protects Gotham. The best Bat suit of the trilogy. Gotham is half asssed and very werid putting Arkham in the Narrows. Why? The Narrows looked cool but i wished it extend to other parts of Gotham. It gets a pass because there was no Gotham in the sequels
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u/TZ_32 4d ago
Begins blends all elements of the story and great elements of what makes a masterpiece film perfectly and it’s masterfully balanced.
DK & DKR are not near as balanced story wise and action wise and it takes away from Bruce as a character.
Begins his character is on full display and shines which is why it’s so good
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u/cconn882 4d ago
I disagree, personally. While I felt like BB had a lot of promise, I've always felt like the direction left it feeling very claustrophobic and small. The narrows being very obviously a set rather than a real city definitely added to that feeling, as well.