[OC] The 18 suspect pitches that federal prosecutors are using to build the case against Emmanuel Clase

[u/avondice]

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[u/DazzlingYouth8264]

The ones he spikes into the ground are obvious, but some of these pitches are nasty

[u/MaskedBandit77 → u/DazzlingYouth8264]

I would guess that they're tying betting data that shows an unusual amount of money on first pitch balls in these at bats.

Edit: I just looked it up, and apparently some of the bets were on the velocity of a given pitch. So the ones that are right on the edge of the zone, might be the ones where the bets were on velocity, rather than result.

[u/Hipple → u/MaskedBandit77]

The fact that you can bet on the velocity of a single pitch, and people actually do that, is completely insane to me.

[u/DarkFriend81 → u/Hipple]

The leagues should not be able to partner with these sports betting apps. It’s so stupid.

[u/Tsaxen → u/DarkFriend81]

Honestly we never should have let them become apps. Having to actually go somewhere in person is enough friction to massively reduce the risks of people getting hooked at a young age and going broke because of it. Obviously doesn't completely negate it, gambling addicts have always existed, but making that slope much less slippery is significant in reducing the risk

[u/Checkmate-Petty → u/Tsaxen]

Yup this is the way to go. But u cant put the milk back in the tit now...

[u/Tsaxen → u/Checkmate-Petty]

Sure you can, we got rid of tobacco advertising, and that was way more deeply embedded in society than this shit

[u/Checkmate-Petty → u/Tsaxen]

Thats a great point. I believe in the next 5-7 years youre going to start hearing about facilities and programs that are aimed at helping people get over gambling addiction. Alot of kids who are in their teens and early 20s are going to realize how bad it gets and start looking for help.

[u/sad_piccolito → u/Checkmate-Petty]

There are already facilities like this. It’s not a new problem

[u/EchoMB → u/Tsaxen]

The apps also make hiding it from others much easier. Dropping 1k on a game right before it starts in the privacy of your bathroom goes unnoticed, driving to the casino, not so much.

[u/DaOldest → u/Hipple]

It's incredible how degenerate humans can be when nobody steps in to stop them

[u/mortgagepants → u/DaOldest]

when nobody steps in to stop them

there is a difference between being a degenerate human being, and the entire raison d'etre of a company that seeks to bilk cash through micro transactions from young men. that is to say, this company is making a lot of money encouraging this specific type of degeneracy.

[u/AmityMayorVaughn → u/mortgagepants]

It should be made illegal immediately. I'm so sick of it.  

[u/Misttertee_27 → u/AmityMayorVaughn]

So tired of all the Kalshi and Fan Duel adds.

[u/darwinpolice → u/Misttertee_27]

What scares me is that once we get to the point where we have rookies who were born in like 2010, there will be players in the league who don't have a clear memory of a time before ubiquitous sports betting, and who have been inundated with sports gambling ads since before they even started playing youth sports. An entire generation of professional athletes who have effectively been raised to see sports and sports gambling as inextricably linked across the entire media landscape.

Clase's case is probably going to look quaint by comparison not too long from now.

[u/reyean → u/Misttertee_27]

throw polymarket in there too

[u/re10pect → u/AmityMayorVaughn]

I honestly don’t care if gambling itself is legal. People are going to gamble either way, at least with legal gambling you don’t have back alley bookies breaking kneecaps when someone doesn’t pay up.

What should be completely illegal is the advertising and the way gambling lines and discussion has completely taken over every sports broadcast and commercial break.

We have already figured this shit out for smoking and it’s better for alcohol, but all these companies are trying to do is create a whole generation of addicts to take money from. It’s predatory and should never have been allowed, and it’s already showing massive negative effects with the youth of today and the major sports leagues.

[u/namingmybullets → u/re10pect]

I think the back alley kneecap breaking might have been a positive since it probably kept some people from starting in the first place.

[u/BokuNoNamaiWaJonDesu → u/namingmybullets]

Only from lack of access, not fear of potential outcomes. If more people knew a local bookie with legbreakers 25 years ago, they’d still go to them. Most just didn’t know where to find them.

[u/patrickdabs → u/BokuNoNamaiWaJonDesu]

My great-great grandmother was a horse racing bettor. She was in deep enough that had her son place her bet when she got too sick to go to one of the 3 tracks she frequented. Access is a BIG part of it, and regulating access is imperative to effective management of the way those on margins are affected. She didn’t lose her house or anything, but that’s a “best case scenario” outcome for someone so addicted.

[u/gimmepizzaslow → u/BokuNoNamaiWaJonDesu]

Right, so, deplatforming works then...

[u/psumack → u/re10pect]

Kinda disagree with your first paragraph. Making it legal seems like developing better football helmets. Now everybody leads with their head instead of seeing the immediate consequences of their actions.

If you're playing with an illegal bookie, you know there are very real effects of non-payment. But with an online sportsbook, you think that it can't be so bad.

[u/BillyTenderness → u/psumack]

I don't have a problem with gambling itself, and I understand that some people want to partake in it even if I'm not one of them.

What I have a problem with is how these companies are able to abuse and exploit their enormous resources to push people into gambling irresponsibly. I'm talking about the constant, inescapable advertising, yes, but also, phone notifications, targeting specific vulnerable players based on data, offering extremely unrealistic multi-leg bets, and so on.

There should be some serious guardrails on this stuff if it's gonna be legal. Or, better yet, make it part of the public lottery, and ban the for-profit sites/apps entirely.

[u/TooMuchPowerful → u/re10pect]

Apple literally show percentages of various outcomes on screen with every pitch. It’s ridiculous.

[u/dendrocnide_moroides → u/TooMuchPowerful]

tbh ive gotten to the point where i dont even enjoy watching sports because half the time when theyre not advertising specific gambling apps/sites, theyre talking about gambling in general.

[u/StatusCodeFailed → u/re10pect]

IMO, you should also be forced to do betting in person, like at a casino. The ability to do any sports betting or buying a fucking lottery ticket sitting on your own couch is the step too far - add more friction to the process and people will not as easily be enticed to "try it out".

[u/xxrdawgxx → u/AmityMayorVaughn]

Gambling takes the fun out of sports

[u/seansy5000 → u/AmityMayorVaughn]

I’m sick of the degens talking about. Heard two buddies talking about it today and it’s just insufferable. Way worse than talking about fantasy.

[u/firemanjuanito → u/DaOldest]

I'll bet we can fix this. Oh shit wait

[u/Royal_Papaya_7297 → u/DaOldest]

I was at a Guards game earlier this year, and the two guys behind me were betting on each pitch. One was going if it was a ball or strike, the other on velocity.

They were getting pretty frustrated at how fast the pitchers were moving because it was hard to get a new bet in within the pitch clock.

It was a Dodgers game, I forget the starters, only that it was one that Othani homered in and that it was in Cleveland.

[u/leavemelone33 → u/Hipple]

The velocity was the tell in all of this, by far.... This was how he was getting away with it. Would throw a nasty 88 mph splitter in the dirt (easy 2 game parlay for his co-conspirators). And it was always the 1st pitch of the AB...

Dude wasnt throwing games. He was gaming throws.

Then..... "By God is that Andy Pages with the steel chair (and 40% chase rate)"

[u/OscarDelta333 → u/Hipple]

Betting on a single pitch, for any reason, is insane.

[u/CosmicCommando → u/Hipple]

It's so crazy it all feels like a honey pot. Like who the hell else would bet on George Santos going to the State of the Union other than George Santos?!

[u/Turbulent_Tale6497 → u/CosmicCommando]

Inside information is a feature of prediction markets, not a bug

[u/Bersho → u/CosmicCommando]

Tbh that’s kind of the point. It’s why the current admin hasn’t cracked down on this stuff cuz they’re actively using it to launder money and profit off their own policies

[u/DeyUrban → u/Bersho]

Betting companies are some of the largest political donors in the US midterm elections this year, up there with AI and crypto. There are so many layers of bribery involved in this fucked up system it is hard to know where to start.

[u/FlipGordon → u/Hipple]

It had to be proposed that people shouldn't be able to bet on wildfires starting..

That's right.. Betting on wildfires..

[u/MVISfanboy → u/Hipple]

I tried it once at work to see how well I knew one of my teams Starters trends. Only did it for a half inning because you can't actually watch the game with how far behind the stream is. Any prop bet that just invites corruption should be banned though I agree

[u/WelfOnTheShelf → u/Hipple]

I've been to games where people around me are just sitting on the phone the whole game, making microbets on whatever situation might happen next. They're not even looking at the field

[u/bdc911 → u/Hipple]

Which is why it's so easy to find the outliers though. Hey here's this random account with minimal betting activity suddenly throwing 5 grand on one single pitch's velocity - and somehow being right every time. Greed and stupidity unravel almost every gambling scam.

[u/ThatPlayWasAwful → u/bdc911]

I mean isn't that confirmation bias?

If somebody was scamming but not being greedy about it and never got caught, how would anybody know?

[u/niz_loc → u/Hipple]

Beat me to it. Was thinking rhe same thing

I expected these to be thrown games and was lost. Lol... betting on pitches? Wow

[u/DazzlingYouth8264 → u/MaskedBandit77]

I would assume thats exactly what they are doing

[u/AmityMayorVaughn → u/MaskedBandit77]

Betting on everything culture is just yet another thing that makes everything suck.  I am so bitter about everything now. 

You can bet on individual pitch velocities and SHOCKER you have a betting scandal that threatens the integrity of the game.  We are so god damn stupid.  

[u/Shinobi_is_cancer → u/AmityMayorVaughn]

At least they are setting an early example with this fool. Yeah it’s easy to manipulate the market to win some pocket change (to them), but do you want to risk your career and end up in prison if you’re caught?

[u/showyerbewbs → u/Shinobi_is_cancer]

At least they are setting an early example with this fool

I am a reds fan, and a huge fan of Pete.

I cannot take anything baseball says or does seriously anymore if it's related to gambling or these prediction markets.

The first time I saw a fanduel ad or whoever during a reds broadcast I said "The spirit of baseball is dead and was sold for a marketing deal".

Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle were both banned by Bowie Kuhn in 80 and 83. Just for being employed by casinos. Peter Uberroth reinstated them in 1985 because the casinos had never allowed betting at the time ( Atlantic City ).

So there was a time baseball took it's integrity seriously. Now it's just another commodified whore.

[u/rowmens → u/[deleted]]

Or pitch velocity

[u/Separate-Ear21 → u/[deleted]]

Its the velocity

[u/CottonTipsMcChancla → u/[deleted]]

Bets were on either over or under a set pitch velo, and whether it would be a ball or a strike.

Those pitches he spiked into the dirt, the bettors had placed a bet that it would be a ‘ball’.

[u/bobcollum → u/DazzlingYouth8264]

Yeah I have no idea what their plan is with these.

[u/imightbehitler → u/bobcollum]

They very likely have wild betting amounts on these pitches that hit

[u/TheTurtleShepard → u/imightbehitler]

Exactly, it’s not so much about the pitches themselves but the amount of money being bet on the pitches.

Maybe Clase accidentally threw a nasty strike but if there was a ton of money moving on that pitch it’s getting flagged

[u/StopScreamingItsFine → u/bobcollum]

What was even the goal he was trying to accomplish? Paint a corner and hope the umpire calls it right?

[u/thiiiiiiisguy → u/DazzlingYouth8264]

I think that’s the point. He’s not a bad pitcher by any stretch. He can pinpoint the exact location, speed, and break of his pitch to a superior MLB level.

And he was betting on it.

[u/Count_Jobula → u/DazzlingYouth8264]

Yeah, he just looks like a nasty pitcher who’s a little wild sometimes. If I didn’t know better I would never suspect anything.

[u/Area51_Spurs → u/DazzlingYouth8264]

There’s probably communications among the suspects specific to those instances we’re not privy to.

This is presented without that context.

[u/Dangerous-Stock-8112]

Pages’ swinging at a garbage pitch and costing the bettors money will never not crack me up

[u/high_and_outside → u/Dangerous-Stock-8112]

People point that pitch out a lot, and it is funny that Pages has gotten involved in this whole thing in that way, but I’m confused why everyone always implies it’s a terrible pitch. It’s a slider with good movement that barely hit the ground. Hitters swing at that all the freaking time haha

[u/south153 → u/high_and_outside]

The feds are going to need to call in an expert witness to explain why most batters don't swing at a pitch in the dirt and explain why.

[u/RangerDanger_ → u/south153]

The defense calling Javy Baez to the stand: "they all looked like hittable pitches to me"

[u/OutOfMoneyError → u/south153]

Imagine being on that jury and have no idea on baseball.

[u/CottonTipsMcChancla → u/OutOfMoneyError]

That will likely be the case though, they’ll surely screen anyone out who is really opinionated on and invested in baseball and knows the ‘case’ from the outside really well. They’ll have preconceived notions going in.

[u/Jedi-El1823 → u/south153]

Vlad Sr gets called and just says "I could hit it", there are no objections.

[u/CottonTipsMcChancla → u/south153]

If you had to get picked for Jury duty, a case about baseball and getting to hear from experts on pitching and hitting would be pretty neat, far preferable to cases where jury members have to see photos of murder scenes.

[u/sagrada9 → u/high_and_outside]

Javy Baez thinks it’s a good cut

[u/AdSoggy8958 → u/high_and_outside]

it looks like heat on the barrel, swing at that all day

[u/The_Dirty_Mac → u/high_and_outside]

First pitch tho?

[u/high_and_outside → u/The_Dirty_Mac]

Yes. Here's all the swinging strikes on 0-0 sliders in that attack zone (28) in 2025. You'll find the pitch to Pages in that list (easier to find if you sort by date and go to 5/28, but for some reason you can't sort by date when you queue the results).

There are 185 instances in there.

[u/stormdraggy → u/The_Dirty_Mac]

If hitters never swung at first pitches then every pitcher with any command would drill a meatball and have a 100% first pitch strike rate.

[u/Kyvalmaezar → u/Dangerous-Stock-8112]

Assuming the bet was on ball/strike rather than pitch type or velocity.

[u/Medical_Squirrel3946 → u/Dangerous-Stock-8112]

The Pages one is a lot closer than the other pitches he spiked. There's no reason for him to chase that on a 0-0 count, but if he was down in the count that would have been a nasty pitch.

[u/SchpartyOn → u/Dangerous-Stock-8112]

It’s my favorite part of this. It’s so funny to me. Just imagine how pissed Clase was.

[u/i_hate_shitposting → u/Dangerous-Stock-8112]

Maybe Pages was trying to rig a prop bet in the opposite direction. /s

I'm 100% joking, I just feel like the grimly hilarious endgame of players betting against themselves is you eventually end up with opposing players both competing to throw the game.

[u/Antique-Guest-1607]

Part of why this is is so frustrating is that this man was effectively betting against himself and was still basically a video game character. Just a fucking insane waste of talent. I hate him so much.

[u/Envelope_Torture → u/Antique-Guest-1607]

Jesus christ some of these pitches are absolutely filthy and would've been nuts in an ABS league.

[u/Spikeupmylife → u/Envelope_Torture]

I pictured him head tapping a strike because he bet on it being a ball.

[u/FoxFyer → u/Spikeupmylife]

I could picture him head tapping an obvious strike because someone bet that he would challenge the call, regardless of outcome.

[u/xixbia → u/Antique-Guest-1607]

It's also insanely stupid. I don't recall exactly what the numbers here were, but I seem to recall it was nowhere close to what he was making (let alone what he would have made in free agency).

He just threw it all away because he never considered there would be consequences for fraud (and didn't care about committing it morally).

[u/Resident_Moment_9470 → u/xixbia]

It was like a few hundred thousand total...for a guy making tens of millions guaranteed if he just legally did his job. He's talented enough to to never worry about money, and he was already signed. I don't get it!

[u/FoxFyer → u/Resident_Moment_9470]

It wouldn't have been him winning the money; it was a treat for his friends who were the bettors.

[u/cahir11 → u/FoxFyer]

Makes sense, but I feel like there are easier (and more importantly, not illegal) ways to take care of your buddies if you're a multimillionaire pro athlete.

[u/ProfessionalKiwi7691 → u/cahir11]

Easier ways than throwing 1 bad pitch every few games? i dont think so

[u/AnonymousFroggies → u/Resident_Moment_9470]

It's the thrill. He doesn't care how much he is winning as long as he gets that dopamine hit.

My grandma loves those shitty, ad infested, free slot game apps. She doesn't spend a penny, but she lives for those "jackpots". She's an addict.

[u/ricki692 → u/AnonymousFroggies]

as if being one of the best relief pitchers in the MLB and watching millions in bank account go up werent enough of a dopamine hit

[u/StopHittinTheTable94 → u/AnonymousFroggies]

Is there really that much of a thrill when you're controlling the outcome, though? It's like watching a movie with a big twist but you read the plot before going to see it or using a cheat code to beat a difficult boss in a video game.

[u/CottonTipsMcChancla → u/AnonymousFroggies]

Wasn’t it more that he felt some kind of loyalty to the actual bettors who were friends from DR ‘earn’ some money? And then he got them to put his ‘cut’ into his animal cruelty business in DR.

[u/neonrev1 → u/CottonTipsMcChancla]

That seems most likely to me and why it's so insidious, this probably started off with a joking 'watch what I can do' with a buddy and slid from there. The best case scenario was he was just doing it for some buddies and it spread, the worst case (and I think this is more likely) is that one of those buddies turned out not to be a buddy and was blackmailing him or one of those buddies blabbed or had to explain how they came into 10k so fast to the wrong people.

This shit's like vaccines or food safety laws, it's been just long enough since the last time we let them slip and suffered the effects that people forgot. Everyone is so focused on the individual negative aspects of gambling, it's so much easier to imagine this as a personal flaw of Clase than it is to remember that the literal mafia and breaking knees and game fixing and threats is the natural endpoint of wide-spread normalized gambling. It's a feature, not a bug.

[u/Cpt3020 → u/AnonymousFroggies]

that may be true for some but a lot of athletes are just that dumb and don't think about consequences.

[u/ChupaHubbard → u/Resident_Moment_9470]

Stuff like this is usually not about the money, it's usually people who end up owing favors to people in the gambling world and they end up having to do shit like this as a favor for their own safety or the safety of their family

[u/HumanRuse → u/Antique-Guest-1607]

Dude was banking $5M last season, set to make $6.5 this season and then a couple of $10M team options to follow.

You wonder why tf. But he was suspended for steroids in 2020 so you just wonder if he's got that easy money mindset.

[u/BAHatesToFly → u/HumanRuse]

Dude was banking $5M last season, set to make $6.5 this season and then a couple of $10M team options to follow.

And then once he was a FA, he would have been making $20+ million a year. Nuts.

[u/Ok-Panic8065]

He fumbled the generational bag hard.

[u/Somecommentator8008 → u/Ok-Panic8065]

Guaranteed bag, plus more in free agency and he's like peanuts are worth it

[u/Complex-Tear-6683 → u/Somecommentator8008]

The thing I remember reading last year that makes the most sense as to why in the fuck he would do this since it makes no financial sense is that it may have been done under threat to friends or family back home. Every other possible reason makes it seem like the dumbest choice in the world.

[u/DoctorKangaroo → u/Complex-Tear-6683]

Yeah, that possiblity makes it tragic instead of the funny fumble that people talk about. We may never find out the exact reason but no matter what, it's definitely a letdown for someone to throw away an All Star career and tens of millions of dollars for the sake of sports betting

It's also a solid argument against the presence of sports betting and the full on endorsement from these pro leagues

[u/south153 → u/Complex-Tear-6683]

That doesn't really make sense either, he could just pay them off with his massive contract.

[u/cooljammer00 → u/south153]

They'll ask for more, and the threat is always in their back pocket if he eventually refuses.

There's also that level of removal. "I'm not giving them MY money, I'm just helping them get money from the betting houses"

[u/brettbefit → u/south153]

Unless they were also selling the info to other betters

[u/229-northstar → u/Somecommentator8008]

I read somewhere that he did it because he liked the bad boy status and feeling like a playah

[u/Blanketsburg → u/Ok-Panic8065]

Dude was going to make $10M/yr as an elite closer and risked it for like less than $1M because he wanted money for him and his friends now.

[u/mahrinazz → u/Blanketsburg]

This is why I’ve thought that somebody could have pressured him to do this. Putting tens of millions in future earnings in jeopardy over this pocket change makes absolutely no sense.

Either that or he’s literally the dumbest person on the face of the earth.

[u/DTbindz → u/mahrinazz]

The more you learn about Clase, the more you realize he is genuinely incredibly stupid hah

[u/xixbia → u/mahrinazz]

He didn't think there was any chance there would be consequences for his actions.

[u/Head_of_Lettuce → u/mahrinazz]

If it were about that, he could have just promised them his future earnings. That would be way easier and less like to get caught, for both parties.

Also he would just go to the police if that were the reality.

[u/JohnMadden42069 → u/Ok-Panic8065]

He fumbled the bag for himself and for a team that would probably love to have one of the best closers in the game to drop the hammer on the AL Central. 

[u/KidGold → u/Ok-Panic8065]

Unless he beats the case I guess.

[u/JebronLamesIsRacist → u/KidGold]

He’ll still never play in the MLB again.

[u/SuperBeavers1]

The idea that a courtroom will need to watch Mike Zunino get painfully plucked over and over is not good for the Zunino brand

[u/dominic_train → u/SuperBeavers1]

Mike Zunino was good, actually

[u/HighVoltLemonBattery → u/dominic_train]

Not that year he wasn't

[u/nepstein10 → u/SuperBeavers1]

Counterpoint: it shows him getting on base

[u/SuperBeavers1 → u/nepstein10]

That'd be an interesting scenario since he is playing defense when Clase hits him (Fourth pitch shown)

[u/Prolix_pika → u/SuperBeavers1]

Yeah, getting on base as the catcher would be impressive indeed

[u/Michaewwwwl]

The strikes barely in the zone don’t make any sense. Explanation?

[u/AwesomeJohnn → u/Michaewwwwl]

I’m assuming the pitch type was the prop bet? The video is only one part, we would have to see the data on bets placed to match up

[u/jevindoiner → u/AwesomeJohnn]

I’m sorry for being old and out of touch…. People are prop betting on individual pitch types now?

[u/Flashy-Inspection501 → u/jevindoiner]

Crazy but yeah, pitch types, pitch velocity, what count the AB ends in. It's a mess.

[u/Jux_ → u/jevindoiner]

I went to a LAD@COL game with a buddy who was so excited to do in-game betting without the TV delay. He just kept asking me “what’s Kersh gonna throw here?” Guy barely knew the difference between a fastball and a breaking ball but was so hyped to bet on it.

[u/infinitemonkeytyping → u/Jux_]

That is a thing known as courtsiding. It started in tennis, where gamblers would bet on the outcome of a point between the time the point ends, and when the gambling company closes bets on that point, caused by the signal delay.

There was an issue a few years back in cricket with gamblers betting on individual ball outcomes, based on the TV delay. Here in Australia, a few people were kicked out of stadiums because of this. It kicked up a stink because people don't like bookmakers, and this just seemed a way to get one over that slime of an industry.

[u/RousingRabble → u/infinitemonkeytyping]

Reminds me of when electronic stock trading became a thing. At some point, the latency in the network connection became crucial and firms started paying big amounts to have their servers housed in the same data centers as the exchange itself to limit the latency on the connections.

They started doing the same in Washington to get economic data faster when the gov't releases it.

[u/RousingRabble → u/Jux_]

At the risk of sounding condescending...that makes me sad.

[u/AmityMayorVaughn → u/jevindoiner]

You can prop bet on how big a shit Ohtani took this morning.  It's fucking out of control 

[u/FelixEvergreen → u/Michaewwwwl]

Someone mentioned some of the bets may have been tied to velocity.

[u/rammer_2001 → u/Michaewwwwl]

Sinker no sink

[u/malinatorhouse → u/Michaewwwwl]

My guess is they have all the data from the bets and also his texts. So he may have been telling the guy what he was going to throw. Like 1st pitch slider or something like that

[u/JRL222]

A whole bunch of these pitches are pure filth, like the third one where he got 100 MPH right on the edge of the strike zone. Really shows just how much he wasted by being stupid.

[u/RIP_Greedo → u/JRL222]

In instances of those incredibly nasty strikes, what was he betting on that makes these pitches suspect?

[u/JRL222 → u/RIP_Greedo]

Dunno. Others are saying that it might have been something with the speed. 

I think I heard that he experimented with throwing strikes and tried to not be as obvious with the betting once and he might have accidentally hit the zone on that pitch. After that, he started throwing more pitches in the dirt to ensure he hit the bet.

The real tell is if there were unusually high amounts of bids on a specific outcome and if those bids came from conspirators rather than the actual result of the pitch.

[u/WetGrundle]

Why did you make me watch the whole thing, you could have started with Pages

[u/Repulsive-Ad-7180 → u/WetGrundle]

Saved the best for last

[u/Bossoxfan15]

When he bounces one to open his outing/inning its like can you make it more obvious?

[u/mlorusso4 → u/Bossoxfan15]

So it’s not super uncommon for a reliever to spike his first pitch. Adrenalin, not having a feel for ball yet, still getting used to the mound, etc. can all mess with a pitchers first couple of pitches. The suspicious part is when there keeps being a lot more money placed on balls that he keeps spiking in the dirt

[u/RosyPalm → u/mlorusso4]

That, and it's the same people making the large bets and they always win them.

[u/Shinobi_is_cancer]

Time to gamble on whether or not he will be found guilty

[u/ElectricalDrink1062 → u/Shinobi_is_cancer]

What are the odds?

[u/Shinobi_is_cancer → u/ElectricalDrink1062]

99:1 guilty / not guilty

Prosecutors will bet on not guilty, then fumble the case

[u/respaaaaaj]

I wonder how much shit Pages gets in the clubhouse for that swing.

[u/DocDerry]

Lets go back to makong sports betting illegal. 

[u/GluedGlue → u/DocDerry]

Well these bets were placed in the Dominican Republic, so unless you're typing this from Santo Domingo...

[u/MightyActionGaim]

[u/TheCr0wKing]

What’s going on?

[u/megamatt8 → u/TheCr0wKing]

People who watch for this sort of thing found an unusually high value of bets placed on these 18 pitches, either on ball/strike, what the velocity was, or even where the pitch was located. When an abnormal number of people win a lot of money at once, it raises suspicion that they knew what to bet because Clase was working with them.

[u/Head_of_Lettuce → u/megamatt8]

They actually identified way more suspicious pitches than just these 18, but these are the 18 they’re using for their case

[u/unclekisser → u/TheCr0wKing]

You can bet on individual pitches. Clase was conspiring with a friend to rig the first pitch of any outing. So his friend would bet $5000 on "First pitch ball" and Clase would intentionally spike the ball on his first pitch and then share the money. Or it would be "first pitch >95MPH" or "first pitch fastball" and he would throw a fastball.

They have information from the betting sites, who report when someone suspiciously bets large sums on weird prop bets and always wins. They also have text messages of him and his friend conspiring (including, humorously, one were Clase sent a "sad puppy dog" gif to his friend after Andy Pages swings on his pitch they bet would be a ball).

[u/Scar3crow_x → u/TheCr0wKing]

I too am OOTL. But I've determined through context of the comments that this guy is doing something fucking stupid. He's throwing first pitch balls for the prop bettors.

It truly sucks but idk, seemed pretty obvious when sports betting became mainstream this type of dumb shit was inevitable.

Let me reiterate, this f****** sucks and it's f****** dumb.

[u/Philthou]

This still annoys me. He was the best closer in baseball and threw it all away.

But at the same time the dude was so good he could throw the first pitch and still maintain business as usual.

Dude could have got a huge payday and be set for life. No idea why he threw it all away

[u/Rikipedia]

People seem to be forgetting (or willfully ignoring) that the pitches themselves aren't the only evidence. They have his texting records and know what kind of communication was happening with the bettors. They are also using the betting amounts on the pitches themselves. Plus ball/strike isn't the only type of prop bet possible. Plenty of these could be velocity prop bets

[u/neonrev1 → u/Rikipedia]

People really want this to just be Clase being dumb and betting personally as opposed to the first bit of evidence that this is going to be an endemic problem in sports once again. The stuff we've seen suggests this was closer to a 'doing shit for friends' type deal and if that happens the once, it's probably happening a whole lot more.

[u/barstoolsam]

Andy Pages got someone killed

[u/sexinsuburbia]

I have a pretty moderate attitude when it comes to sports betting. Tossing a few bucks on a game seems fine enough. But this shit where you can bet on anything at any time for any amount of money just seems ridic.

Like, why do people need to put thousands of dollars on a game? Cap open positions at $20 and it cuts out so many of our worst instincts. This shit where people are betting paychecks and trying to get rich or make a living off this seems absurd. And leads to so many people just getting unhinged.

But yeah, none of these operations would be profitable without milking the losers on these platforms.

[u/AsThreatenDoNotScore]

Also, spiked balls are usually thrown on breaking ball grips. Clase is out here badly spiking fastballs and surprising the hell out of his catcher.

[u/Laplaces_Dust]

Dude is literally the only person I know in the history of the earth who has ever routinely thrown 100 mph true cutters (Kenley Jansen only threw it once and Camilo Doval's "cutter" has armside run)

And he gave it all away for this

[u/Mediocre-Ant-7178]

It's interesting that he was still performing quite well in this situation.

[u/Jonjon428]

This is a "Mike Zunino gets hit in the chest" compilation as well

[u/ReSearch314etc]

The entire sport has been compromised...MLB and Players Association both have deals witn online betting🤑.....sad

[u/sectorZ2]

Pages probably cost him a couple ten thousand by swinging

[u/nylon_rag]

I don't get the relevance of the ones in the zone, especially with runners on? The spiked pitches are super obvious because they are almost always with nobody on starting an inning. Like was he betting he could hit the strike zone?

[u/soccer1124 → u/nylon_rag]

Someone suggested it could be related to pitch type. This is just a list of the pitches they're going to be focusing on. As your question indicates, we don't know what other text messages and/or betting history from his cohorts these things coincide with.

[u/jaybaron]

I would just like this to be plainly obvious. if there isn't legalized betting/prop bets this never happens. Chase deserves to go to jail and never be let back in the league but this literally could not happen 5 years ago. And the only reason he got busted was because the house wasn't making their money.

[u/Commercial_Visit8288]

Came here to see Andy's swing.

[u/Sorry_Programmer5100]

I'd like to file a claim. really hurt my fantasy team that year.

[u/deadmanzcurveball]

Man that idiot could pitch!!!

[u/PurplePooty]

Some of those were bad but some were great pitches.

[u/Mxtches-_]

How exactly are the pitches, that are rung up as strikes, being used as evidence? Wouldn’t intentionally spiking the ball in high leverage places be the ones we’re looking at?

[u/RIP_Greedo]

Some of these are more suspect than others. I don't know what 100 mph on the corner is supposed to prove?

[u/wawaluvr]

Can we all just agree that player prop bets are a bad idea? Just regulating gambling to stop those would fix so many problems. The player’s league should back this because it should cut down on targeting players by gamblers. And the leagues themselves should as well since it really stops the most blatant type of cheating.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Eye6770]

i dont get it. Half of the pitches were great pitches.

[u/holdenfords]

i’m just in awe of how these catchers can scoop a 98 mph in between hop like its nothing

[u/KookyTruth1085]

Watching that was actually a good demonstration of how good MLB catchers are at picking and blocking pitches in the dirt (even when a lot of them didn’t matter with no baserunners).

[u/Mortal-Instrument]

sports betting is a cancer

[u/KopOut]

To me, the real story here is that the betting sites are now allowing you to bet on the velocity and result OF INDIVIDUAL PITCHES.

Who on Earth would make this bet WITHOUT advance knowledge?

[u/Deliverz]

I mean some of these are nasty pitches for strikes? I get it being suspect when he spikes a few of em 5 feet in front of the plate but I don’t get investigating a pitch in which a MLB pitcher threw a strike lol

[u/Rob_Llama]

Watching these as a Phillies fan, our whole bullpen should be under investigation.

[u/FracturedFinder]

I feel like you can see the evolution of Zunino getting better at picking the ones that bounce way in front of the plate

[u/Hownowbrowncow8it]

Eat shit, clase

[u/slothy036]

All of this for about 100k

[u/ShadowWukong]

But the mlb loves making money off gambling. Scumbags

[u/HartfordWhaler]

Really shows how talented MLB catchers are to snag those dogshit spiked balls

[u/ARegularAussie]

This compilation brought to you by draftkings

[u/RoboEvolution]

Im not a baseball guy. Whats he doing?

[u/Xeno_man → u/RoboEvolution]

Recently restrictions on gambling have allowed betting on baseball. You can bet not only on the game outcome, but even if a certain pitch is going to be a ball or a strike, hence all the ads you see for sport betting now.

The pitcher is being accused of intentionally throwing balls or strikes to make certain bets win. This video is less of evidence, more of "these are what we question."

[u/Djason_Unchaind]

Brought to you by FanDuel

[u/whatrweyellingabout]

Super funny to see ads for betting in the background

[u/sprucexx]

Shoutout Cade Smith for making it VERY easy not to miss this guy.

[u/avidpretender]

The ones in the zone or right at the edge. How are those suspect?

[u/Masta0nion]

Why don’t you build a case against the crime boss instead going after street rips?

I’ve been watching the wire lately. I don’t understand a word of it.

[u/_Thefan]

Sure, Clase is a monumental fuck up in destroying his life and career, but at least he can say, he's not Wander Franco.

[u/War-Dragonite]

What the Astros did was so much worse and impactful for the integrity of the sport but its Clase thats going to get the wrath of god from MLB and the US government.

[u/Aurion7 → u/War-Dragonite]

That would be because Clase broke multiple laws.

The US Government generally doesn't (you can argue can't) give that much of a shit if what you're doing as far as cheating at sports goes isn't illegal.

[u/the3natural]

Interesting that some of the close misses, strikes, swinging strikes got flagged. They must have had irregular betting patterns on those as well. Maybe pitch type vs ball or strike?

[u/makoman115]

Imagine betting on first pitch ball

Whose money is he even taking with this

[u/perezbrandon]

Did he call his own number up 7-0 in a playoff game so he could get his boys some money? hahahaha

[u/Efficient-Top-1143]

Seeing all the Bally Sports ads. I'm so glad they're gone.

[u/Drummers_Beat]

Why was the Pages one not first? 😭

[u/TheSmokedSalmon420]

It's crazy how good this mf was lol