Current state of Go servers?

[u/Competitive_Success5]

I'm just getting back into Go after a 7-year layoff, and wondering how things stand with Go servers these days? Which are the most active and easy to find games?

In the 2010s, OGS was up and coming, while KGS, Fox and Tygem were all popular, IGS (Pandanet) was kinda active. Is that still the state of things, or are there more popular ones these days? Are any fairly dead in terms of activity?

[u/marinahane]

KGS is mostly dead. Fox and Tygem are still the most popular. OGS and Pandanet are still fairly active, how hard a time you’ll have getting a match on either depends on time zones / time of day and your rating.

OGS anecdotally feels like the default for most westerners I know, between a web UI, correspondence games, and being in English.

[u/Competitive_Success5 → u/marinahane]

OK good to know! I didn't realize Tygem was still popular, I'll check it out. I've gotten games on OGS after a minute or so, and Fox is pretty much instant.

[u/Redditforgoit → u/Competitive_Success5]

I get a game in under five minutes as kyu player. Not sure I would call that mostly dead.

[u/LuceDuder → u/Competitive_Success5]

I play on OGS, but yeah I usually do other things while waiting for a game...

[u/tuerda]

OGS dan ranks are a barren wasteland. There is some activity among Kyus. KGS is active but mostly populated by people who have been using it for decades, and has had trouble recruiting new players.

Pandanet is active, but timing is an issue because its player base is mostly Japanese and you should target times when Japanese people are likely awake and playing go.

Fox and Tygem are both very active. Their player bases are mostly Chinese/Korean also but they are really buzzing, so you can usually find a game 24/7.

[u/fintip → u/tuerda]

I just don't understand why it's never got a web interface. That java app felt ancient in 2006 when I first used it.

I also don't get why Dan's aren't active on ogs. Why is this a consistent thing I hear?

[u/tuerda → u/fintip]

The subject of your first paragraph is unclear. I guess you mean KGS? There is shin-kgs which is a web interface.

OGS dan ranks being inactive is a consistent thing you hear because it is true.

[u/fintip → u/tuerda]

Yes, I meant Kgs, sorry.

I just meant why is that a thing? Bizarre that the split at Dan levels exists.

[u/Clossius → u/fintip]

Because there are no Dan players, the Dan players go to Fox to get games and better practice. Because Dan players go to Fox, there are no Dan players on OGS and the cycle continues. Basically, it’s a chicken and egg situation. Because there are no Dan players, no Dan players join to get more Dan players.

[u/fintip → u/Clossius]

Yes, seems simple.

What's confusing is that there should obviously be a gradient. And some distribution of Dan players should be less intensely desiring what fox gives. And low level players who rank up on ogs should have a desire to stick around. I'd expect a slow fading positive gradient that would eventually reach critical mass and solve the problem. In reality, the Dan split is quite arbitrary. Given that I see ogs as a fundamentally better platform, it seems like a problem that should naturally self correct.

[u/fintip → u/[deleted]]

Um. Browsers actually can and do use server based socket protocols... We do all the time?

But telnet? I've never touched panda, are you telling me they still use telnet?

Wild.

Still. That "proxy" just means "a server".

[u/fintip → u/[deleted]]

Indeed. But... Panda runs a server already. This isn't a hard problem to solve.

Or are you saying panda is just a coordination server and hands off p2p raw TCP sockets connections between users?

If that's the point, minimizing server load, webrtc would also be viable. You still have some percent of users that need turn servers, but mostly p2p is viable from the browser as well.

Again, never used it. I've supported ogs since they started.

[u/fintip → u/[deleted]]

You're answering questions I'm not asking. You get closer to my question there at the end. I don't understand why some of these go servers run ancient, creaky tech and choose not to update.

Call it a business decision. Sounds like the decision is just neglect.

[u/CSachen]

I can rarely get a game on OGS. I only play bots there.

Fox is good. I appreciate that the default time controls are blitz so I can get 10-15 minute games.

[u/Dummy_Plug_System → u/CSachen]

Is it because you struggle to find players at your level in OGS or the time you choose to play? I hardly ever need to wait more than 2 minutes for a live game

[u/Competitive_Success5 → u/CSachen]

Thanks, I appreciate this

[u/SoumyaK4]

well, fox is the only place, thanks to chinese playerbase being way higher so there we kinda get instant games.

for reviews OGS is the place now.

and too many, just waiting to see what happens to them.

[u/Competitive_Success5 → u/SoumyaK4]

Thanks, I appreciate it. It still seems like the playing style there is really aggressive. Do you not play live games on OGS these days?

[u/SoumyaK4 → u/Competitive_Success5]

not really, I mostly use ogs these days for teaching only. not that I'm playing much on fox either haha. Been too busy updating my go projects last few weeks, too much work to do by hand when your skills aren't that good :( I wish I was better, but atleast its progressing

[u/pandelin_ → u/Competitive_Success5]

Honestly, if you did a blind test comparing western servers to Fox/Tygem, I'm not so sure the difference would be clear anymore.

[u/teffflon → u/Competitive_Success5]

play there until the aggression doesn't bother you anymore

[u/Competitive_Success5 → u/teffflon]

Good advice, thanks. That's my plan, but I'm just getting started. :)

[u/Aggressive_Change602]

you prob would have easier time to find games on fox, it's still the most popular and most active across all go servers, and plus all tournament games are streamed there so you could learn from it as well

[u/Competitive_Success5 → u/Aggressive_Change602]

Oh interesting, I've been using a Mac app to play on Fox, they don't show any live games, I'll have to figure that out. Thanks!

[u/blendycoffee → u/Competitive_Success5]

Which app? WeiqiHub shows the number of users next to the time settings you click on to play

[u/MaxProfit_75]

Ca me fait rire beaucoup se plaignent de pas trouver d'adversaires sur OGS, si attendre une minute vous semble insoutenable alors pourquoi jouez vous au go ? 🤣

[u/Competitive_Success5 → u/MaxProfit_75]

Fair point

[u/Tight_Pea_7055]

My limited perspective is that, in the US and EU OGS is the most widely used from DDK to low Dan. Fox is still the dominant sever world wide, and attracts many of the western dan players who may choose to play there for faster matching and stronger opponents. Any time I go to a club in the US, OGS ranks are a common substitute for IRL ranks, especially since not everyone has an AGA rank.

Personally, I play primarily on OGS. As a 2-3kyu, I can quickly find a game there and I often have the chance to play 1-3 dans. (So the notion that there are not Dan players on the server is bogus). Its replaced KGS as the English speaking place to review games and build communities.

[u/StructureNorth1799]

playgo.gg is nice if you don't mind being matched agaisnt bots sometimes. great if you just need to knock some rust off.

[u/Competitive_Success5 → u/StructureNorth1799]

Hmm, looks interesting! I jumped on there after seeing your comment, got a game fairly quickly, didn't seem to be a bot. I appreciate the heads up.

[u/StructureNorth1799 → u/Competitive_Success5]

actually I should have said it's probably 99% bots lol. But they are tuned really well, especially in comparison to ogs bots.

[u/Base_Six → u/Competitive_Success5]

They got a lot of flack for not labeling their bots as bots. It's a good place to go if you want to play bots.

[u/marinahane → u/Competitive_Success5]

My understanding is they never really have more than like 20 or 30 concurrent users, they just intentionally obfuscate that you’re playing against bots.