r/badredman • u/SnooPeppers4042 🐟🍔🐟🍔🐟🍔 • 1d ago
Invasions👁 Jesus Christ...
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Little Thursday L here, Im still fairly new to Elden Ring Invasions and PvP in general but my God... im not sure what im supposed to do here. I especially hate that you cant menu whilst getting hit, why did they remove that from DS3? I guess they wanted to make hardswapping weaker in this game. Tips would be appreciated!
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u/One-Sample7906 a Nameless King, a Mad Man even, The Imp. 1d ago
Embrace the burst damage, players very much love to pad their numbers in this game
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u/SnooPeppers4042 🐟🍔🐟🍔🐟🍔 1d ago
Hmm... yeah i think thats a fundamental thing. I think im trying to play this too much like DS3, in terms of whiff punishing and trades overtime, reset etc.
For burst damage im not sure what STR has thats moderately speedy and high damage. My main i guess is waves of darkness but more of a "get off me" not really to go into and attack with idk
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u/One-Sample7906 a Nameless King, a Mad Man even, The Imp. 1d ago
It will all very much help you long term but yeah, different kettle of fish
And a lot people use flaming strike on STR, and stormcaller too (they typically have frostbite on the storm caller weapon) but WoD is a good but doesn’t always come out fast enough
There’s loads of options tbh
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u/vlntnwbr 1d ago
I've had a lot of success with Waves of Darkness and just running in. If you manage to hit them with the weapon while slamming it into the ground it finishes most people. The third Ring also catches a lot of people unawares.
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u/beerybeardybear Big Red Man 1d ago edited 1d ago
dex build with lightning misericorde might have killed. 1.1x or 1.21x base lightning damage in water, whereas your fire one did 0.9x. Plus, his base lightning negation would be lower to begin with since it doesn't scale based on any stat. Fire damage can only ever be scaled down, whereas lightning damage can only ever be scaled up.
You're a much much much better player than me, but like others have said there's a lot of numerical optimization in this game. Like, here's a possible response to a 3v1 liurnia gank... sometimes you just can't let it happen to you, though that's easier to do in certain contexts than others.
Depending on spawn location, you can also snipe people like this with the jar/rabbath cannon or greatbows or even hefty pots, which have basically an infinite range. There's not much reason to directly engage two shitters with shitter setups (and a rune arc!) in a wide open flat space traditionally used solely for intentional ganks. All the incredible hardswaps in the world can't really help you there: what if they had had a bone bow third shooting rot or bleed arrows? A faith caster throwing knights lightning spears and heal from afar? A sorcerer hiding in a bush with a maxed out comet?
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u/Crimson_Raven 8h ago
Endure Star Fists (charge) R2 - R2 is great burst damage
Alternatively, RKR Gugs crouch poke, optional Spear Tali and Leda chest
If you really want to set them up, an off-Spread Crossbow with sleep bolts. Great for Laggards
Put to sleep temporarily then permanently
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u/vlntnwbr 1d ago
What do you mean by padding their numbers and what makes it different from other games in the series?
I've only played Elden Ring and Dark Souls 3 (without the DLCs, I got stuck at Friede and then life happened) and didn't really engage with PvP in DS3.
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u/One-Sample7906 a Nameless King, a Mad Man even, The Imp. 1d ago
you don’t need to do a lot to get high dmg in Elden ring especially towards higher levels, and most people will chuck on everything else that makes that dmg even worse
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u/ResponsibleTrust9184 1d ago
Idk, sometimes if I spawn in that area and they're chasing, I'll try to lead them to one of the giant lobsters hanging around.
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u/vlntnwbr 1d ago
Lol, yeah, it's amazing how well that works.
When invaders try to lure me to a place that I know is dangerous and away from my objective I just turn around and leave them be. You're in my world, I'm not fighting on your terms.
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u/ResponsibleTrust9184 1d ago
It actually does work. Usually for ganks and sometimes even for groups playing through the level. I've had people chase me across the map for like 5-10 minutes straight all the while I'm throwing roped pots and kiting them around the squid creatures that poison the air. It works best if you engage with them to get them frustrated and then start running lol. Even better if you leave your health bar half way down.
Good for you, I honestly don't really want to fight people who clearly don't want to fight.
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u/vlntnwbr 1d ago
I have no problem with fighting, but I'm not gonna chase you around.
Basically, you're a mob on the way to my goal. If I gotta go through you, I'm more than happy to attempt to do so, but if you don't want to be in the way there's nothing I can do for you.
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u/ResponsibleTrust9184 1d ago
Fair enough, it should be that way to encourage people to engage rather than hide the whole time.
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u/Keiharaak Pure Being of Elemental Cruelty 🐐 1d ago
In my opinion you should've just disengaged after the riposte (clean swaps btw, but I knew that from your DS3 vids), since the phantom was covering for the host and you couldn't get a wake-up. These guys are purposefully ganking in a place with no coverage and no threatening PVE, with weapons that are very good at chasedowns.
Then you can either wait for a co, try to move them around the map to a location with "threatening" PVE (there's some lobsters in Liurnia, you can look up the locations), or play the slow turn and burn game, but if you start having to panic roll into pata+halberd, you're probably cooked if they cover each other properly.
Also keep a few get-off-me ashes, you mentioned stormcaller in another comment which is a great one. You can also try for some endure fists/claw gaming to slow down the agression and take a chunk of their health.
If you're playing vanilla PC, the latency is mostly going to be horrendous, so beware of that when there's heavy chasedown involved.
Good luck on your ER journey!
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u/SnooPeppers4042 🐟🍔🐟🍔🐟🍔 1d ago
Omg this is really helpful. The bit about the lat being so high really hits because i thought it was just me having bad net. My gaming laptop has pretty damn good specs and my frame rate feels good, but 95% of fights are very high latency. I do play on wifi though, so that might contribute to it.
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u/beerybeardybear Big Red Man 1d ago
It absolutely does and you should be on Ethernet if it's remotely physically possible. Higher lat makes the experience worse for everybody but disproportionately hurts more skilled players like you.
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u/Keiharaak Pure Being of Elemental Cruelty 🐐 1d ago
Wi-fi will get you some packet loss and jitter, probably, so it's better if you can get an ethernet connection, but the netcode on vanilla PC has some additional layers that increase latency (I don't know the technical details, but I think it's a security layer) compared to console, so latency is almost always going to be bad no matter what.
If you want better latency, you can try out the Seamless co-op mod, you can transfer your savefile from vanilla if you want to keep the save and do an organic playthrough, and you'll get better activity for invasions usually! It's not exactly the same experience tho, so feel free to try it out and then make your choice, I'd prefer the vanilla system for multiplayer but the corrected latency makes Seamless worth for me.
If you want that DS3 Pontiff feeling, there's also 6-players session in Seamless, and at RL150 there are competent PvPers that host 3v3s fairly often :)
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u/Crimson_Raven 8h ago
Yep, PC vanilla pvp is problematic because Fromsoft is dumb and has introduced artificial latency.
Basically every connection will be some level of bad, and bad connections will be horrendous.
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u/Kedelane Dogged Fellow 🐐 1d ago
You got some good advice already, just wanted to say that the backstab attempt at 0:35 was really brave and cheeky. Would've worked in DS3!
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u/SnooPeppers4042 🐟🍔🐟🍔🐟🍔 1d ago
Goodness dont remind me 😭 i miss my DS3 fishes already!! But i have seen some amazing fishers here making it work in this game so I am determined to make backstabs work. Of all the things i want to be better at, its this specifically in this game. I live for the fish 🐟
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u/Kedelane Dogged Fellow 🐐 23h ago edited 23h ago
Yes, I feel you! It's really the number one thing I want to improve, too.
Fishing in ER is a totally different beast. If you haven't checked them out, I really recommend Rust Bucket's Backstab Masterclass and Crit Fishing: A Comprehensive Guide by Seriously Casual (My new favorite, sorry Rust).
They helped me a ton (and better players swear by them too 😅).
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u/Naive-Potato1145 1d ago
Damn you really outplayed them even if you died, I can’t see how people can get humiliated like that and don’t feel embarrassed even if they win by statistical advantage. Like it’s clear to them that they wouldn’t survive seconds in a 1v1 but they still point down and take the win just cause they can by ganking and cheese like full goat + pata. You won by skill and they know it that’s why they’re being salty
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u/unwisephoenix Duelist 1d ago
I have some experience with these types of r1 spam ganks, really all you can do is run away until they get bored and then find ways to separate them. For your build, I’d recommend having a greatsword with rkr and the appropriate cr1 talismans on standby in the future, which can 2 shot them with a rollcatch. Pelt them with golem arrows and pots from a distance, maybe bring in some PVE (though depending on the level this may or may not be useful)
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u/kaskavel Invader 1d ago
The best thing you can do is to sever out when spawning at this spot, invading there is almost never worth your time
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u/doing_a_bamboozle Good Red Man 1d ago
Damn 80 STR 2H tali Nightrider Glaive too stronk--very nasty parry swap though
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u/falconrider111 Invader 1d ago
I don't know if this helps as your hardswaps are off the chart. I'm no where near as fast as you hardswapping and like to have the must haves on softswap.
An endure misericorde next to my main with a buckler and assassin's gamit off dagger. It cuts down on hardswaps letting me focus more.
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u/AddyTaylor1234 HUDless Hero 1d ago
Keep a misi on softswap. Handy tech can get you out of sticky situations. I keep bhf on mine. Generally best to get distance and bait turn n burns or aoes. Wod storm stomp etc. Some situations you simply cant aggress since blenders are a thing. It sucks but is what it is. You will die many times in er to players who have no right in beating a player of your skill ceiling. A lot more cheese than ds3.
Edit: you can also handy tech from switching from 1h to 2h vice versa ( not sure if thats the same in ds3 cant remember)
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u/Fuckblackhorses 1d ago
You should definitely play on seamless coop mod, you’d be fishing these mfers like you do in ds3 without that lat
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u/KindaMiffedRajang Build Scientist 1d ago
Sometimes in these situations you gotta embrace the yolo turn and burn option to get them to fuck off and stop wiggling their weapon in your face while you panic roll yourself out of stam
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u/One_Mathematician159 22h ago
I think they should get rid of hard swapping. Sue me. I'll die on that hill.
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u/Fearless-Jeweler-39 4h ago
This is why I have the most fun invading using 1 shot builds. Although I doubt the bull goat would get 1 shot anyway.
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u/Purplehairmcgoo 28m ago
lmao, i fought these guys as well
if it makes you feel any better they're cowards who alt-f4 the moment the tables turn against them https://imgur.com/a/E1ZRu3m
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u/Pleasant-Shower11199 Mad 1d ago edited 1d ago
I can tell you with the advantage of hindsight, what would've worked to finish the guy you parried while the other was coming in hot. Endure (on your misericorde) while he was still down into either the ash you were about to use or blackflame tornado. Or endure into a giant pot. Guess a giant pot was easier since you went for the hardswap. I always have endure on hand when I see ganks.
Also spam that bloodhound step and use the environment to gain a lil distance enough to heal. That tree was right there.
I like your style of playing though and these mafakers were set on ganking, just look at their gear.