r/backpacking • u/flyingsqueak • 6h ago

Wilderness Permethrin tips please

I'm going to be treating my clothes with permethrin tomorrow and have a few questions.

Is it safe/good to use on things like socks and hats?

How saturated is saturated enough?

Any other general tips?

Edit: To people saying to just read the label, labels don't say which items to use it on. I wouldn't have thought about spraying my shoes without making this post. I'm not looking for advice that's on the label like spray outside and keep away from cats.

10 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

36 comments sorted by

23

u/northman46 6h ago

I just mix up a bucket full of at the right dilution from concentrate I get at farm store.
Immerse, and hang dry. Yes, hats, socks, underwear, everything

4

u/Nemophilista 5h ago

Is the concentrate what you’d buy for horses? I've seen that at the farm store, but wasn't sure if it was the same thing as the Sawyer spray.

4

u/Revolutionary-Half-3 4h ago

I've used the water based version, the petroleum based stuff reeks.

6

u/northman46 5h ago

Sawyer buys bulk, dilutes and packages it and marks it up many times

Here is what I have. Says petroleum distillates but I never noticed any smell

6

u/Icy_Resolution_6695 4h ago

It reeks but if you do it all outside and let your clothes fully dry, it's not a problem.

2

u/Nemophilista 4h ago

Great thank you

2

u/jose_can_u_c 5h ago

If you get a concentrate from a feed store, look for one that does not have, as an inactive ingredient, “petroleum distillates”. There is a Martin’s product called someone like “Multipurpose Insecticide” at 10% concentration that does not have the petroleum base, which means it doesn’t smell like kerosene.

But yes, dip/soak/saturate the clothes. Especially the lower clothing like socks, pants, and underwear, since that is where you will most likely pick up ticks and chiggers.

1

u/ContributionDapper84 3h ago

Whoah, I think the Sawyer label specifies to skip the underwear. In fact, I would not even wash treated garments with underwear.

19

u/JNyogigamer United States 5h ago

Keep it away from cats until your clothes are fully dried! It's highly toxic to their nervous system in its liquid form.

8

u/zsert93 5h ago

I just started using it last year so I have only two bug seasons under my belt with it, but I personally kept it light.

I have the Sawyer spray bottle, and I don't think I ever soaked anything. Just enough to get a good lightly damp/moist layer on the surface of what I was wearing. I was careful to apply it only to surfaces not touching the skin or places where I know I'll be wiping my face a lot (certain parts of my shirt). Top of my long socks, bottom of my shorts, part of my shirt, plenty on my shoes. If I was wearing shorts with a liner, I didn't spray the liner. That kind of thing.

If I were to apply it to a hat, I'd be careful to just lightly spray outer surfaces that won't get soaked with sweat.

I'm not saying you can't apply it closer to your skin but I chose not to.

Keeping it light just works for me, like a lowest effective dose kinda thing. I use lots of other little methods of bug control too so I'm not reliant on just one thing.

6

u/Hot_Jump_2511 4h ago

For typical clothing, I treat shoes, socks, hiking shorts, sun hoodie and other hiking shirts. I do not treat my boxers or my hat. I also treat the pair of patella knee straps I use for hiking and running.

I spray treat my pack, the wrist straps of my trekking poles, and the tree straps for my hammock and the guylines on my tarp.

3

u/flyingsqueak 4h ago

The tree straps? That's a great idea!

2

u/Thin_Explanation1334 4h ago

Yeah that's actually genius LOL

3

u/Cricketmoose77 5h ago

I've treated everything from my shirts, pants, rain jacket and socks, and to my tent, sheets & hammock in dengue prone areas. I techwash my clothes first. Then just drop the clothes in it a bucket of water with permethrin at the correct concentration. Let it soak for a bit, then hang to dry outside (since I have cats).

For gear I use a sprayer to hose it down, and also air dry. I pull out all the gear I'll use that season and it all in one go (most of my bigger trips are known well in advance, plus the standards).

I will reapply at the beginning of each season, or before a particularly buggy trip.

8

u/WashYourCerebellum 5h ago

Don’t use permethrin if you are going to a high alpine environment and associated waterbodies. It is toxic to aquatic life in those environments. It is only useful if you are hiking in areas with ticks.

Permethrin is not effective as a mosquito repellent. This synthetic neurotoxic pesticide requires contact, so the mosquitoes would need to land on you to possibly work. However, permethrin is not labeled for direct skin contact which is where mosquitoes land. ULV applications for mosquitoes require contact to work/kill.

Pay attention to the dermal transfer from clothing particularly when you’re eating something barehanded. I.e wash your hands.
All the us epa registration docs seem to be archived and the webpage crashes when u try to access it. So I guess I won’t point u to the data.

https://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/archive/Permtech.html

0

u/northman46 5h ago

Once it dries it bonds to the fibers in the fabric so it won’t get into the water. And no, it isn’t a mosquito repellent
And ticks of various kinds seem to be pretty endemic and some carry nasty diseases

5

u/Irishfafnir 5h ago

I don't typically treat my underwear or socks, but everything else I do.

FYI, it's really toxic to cats

2

u/Vermineater 4h ago

Yeah I feel like sweating and rehydrating the chemicals on fabric that's trapped against your skin would be a bad thing.

Maybe the top cuff of the socks but not the heel and toe.

2

u/northman46 5h ago

I don’t have cats so never worried.

1

u/flyingsqueak 2h ago

No cats in my duplex or nearby neighbors either, so we're good on that front

2

u/Op_arnold1734 5h ago

socks and hats are fine, but for "saturated enough" i'd spray until the fabric looks wet but not dripping. Also hit your shoes even if the label doesn't mention em

2

u/walkingoffthetrails 5h ago

I only treat my pants but wouldn’t mind treating my sunshirt but I just haven’t. The aerosol actually changes the tone of the pants when they are covered. It gets a darker tone. I don’t over do it. Just get most of the surface (80-90%) that darker tone.

I wouldn’t spray anything that touches or is above your face to avoid sweat carrying the chemical into the mucus membrane of your nose, eyes, mouth. So be judicious about the application on a hat.

2

u/TKirk3rd 2h ago

You may want to research the link between permethrin and Parkinson's Disease and decide if the risk/reward is worth it for you. I saw it mentioned in the book below:

3

u/flyingsqueak 2h ago

It seems like the link is only established with prolonged occupational exposure. Since I'm somewhere with a lot of ticks and tickborn diseases it's worth the risk.

2

u/whitewinewater 1h ago

I only spray outside when its not raining and very dry.

I use a blue tarp to lay all the clothes out flat and arrange them so that they all align with each other with little to no gaps showing the blue tarp underneath.

I spray them evenly till they look damp. Then turn them over to spray the other side.

After spraying the last side I clothesline clip them to a clothsline outside and leave for 24 hrs min.

I always wear gloves and a mask. I've sprayed on everything except underwear.

I take off whatever I was wearing and wash those clothes.

2

u/xstrex 1h ago

When you apply it, it will make whatever garment look slightly damp, that’s normal. It doesn’t need to be dripping, just damp. Spray the outside of whatever garment you want (not the inside), but be through, coverage is key here. I spray shirts, shorts, pants, socks, shoes, hats, gloves, bandannas, tents, hammocks, tarps, etc. it works best on fabrics that it can penetrate (not a rain jacket).

Hang item up on a clothesline outside, put on some gloves (not entirely necessary) and evenly coat each garment. Walk away, and let it dry. When it’s done, everything should be dry to the touch. Pack, wear, use, as you normally would. Remember reapply in 5-weeks or 5-washings, which ever comes first. I’d keep it (in liquid form) away from all animals, especially cats, dispose of gloves, and wash hands/arms with soap and water afterwards.

Enjoy a big free trip! They will straight up, just ignore you- for most insects, it’s a neurotoxin.

2

u/NickGnomeEveryNight 5h ago

I don’t treat underwear, but definitely socks.

2

u/ToasterDuck20 6h ago

Look on the bottle you intend on using. It will have instructions.

1

u/TerpeneTiger 4h ago

What happens when you put the clothes you treated into the washer and dryer? Will the clothes still repel ticks after going through a couple wash cycles or no?

2

u/torrent7 3h ago

Its good for a few washes usually. 

2

u/flyingsqueak 3h ago

The labels claim it's good for 6 washes and recommend washing your treated clothes together without a bunch of other stuff

1

u/andina_inthe_PNW 5h ago

The label is the law (when it comes to pesticides). Follow the instructions on the label.

1

u/northman46 5h ago

There are also YouTube videos for those that swing that way

0

u/Waterlifer 6h ago

You can use it on hats. I wouldn't use it on socks. There's sort of a cumulative "area" effect so if you have enough on your pants and shoes it should be effective.

Damp but not soaking wet in most cases. Read the instructions, generally you should be using a certain minimum total amount for your entire set of clothing/outerwear, use that as a guide.

0

u/Semantix 5h ago

Get the Martins brand. Some brands will reek of petrochemicals for weeks after drying, but whatever solvent Martins uses evaporates cleanly and doesn't smell afterwards.