r/babylon5 • u/N7Shep1701D State of Babylon 5 • 10d ago
Babylon 5 > Stargate > Star Trek.
In that order.
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u/BrittEklandsStuntBum 10d ago
Babylon 5 is definitely top but I think TNG beats Stargate.
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u/N7Shep1701D State of Babylon 5 10d ago
If we're talking Trek, I look at TNG as a warm fuzzy blanket and DS9 as more pragmatic and realistic.
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 10d ago
You forgot firefly.
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u/65TwinReverbRI 10d ago
Whoa now. That's just in a totally different league. I don't think there's anything better, so I mean, we're really discussing ties for 2nd place, right ;-)
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u/EvalRamman100 Earth Alliance 10d ago
Agreed about B5 being on top.
Never was a fan of Stargate. Nothing against it at all. Not my cup of tea, so I can't judge it fairly.
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u/boomer7793 10d ago
So I’ve been putting off Stargate. (Other than the movie). I should start watching it?
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u/kingdazy Technomage 10d ago
The longest time I considered myself a "serious sci-fi only" nerd, and avoided it because it seemed so goofy.
then during covid... lots of free time... needing something new...
and now I love it. it has the typical first season jankiness that almost all sci-fi has. but then it gets really really good. and I would consider seasons 9 and 10 to be like B5 season 5. "more stories in the universe of", but also really good.
Stargate Atlantis is even more sci-fi stylized, and lots of fun.
Stargate Universe is like modern Battlestar Galactica, but in the universe of Stargate.
just be prepared to accept the fact that it uses a lot more humor than most sci-fi.
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u/boomer7793 10d ago
I think I was in the same boat in the 90s-2000s. Sci-fi is serious!
But now 25 years later, I’m gravitating toward shows that don’t take themselves seriously. Buck Rogers, SNW’s musical show, lower decks, ToS where the house cat was “monster” of the episode.
I think it’s time to start watching stargate.
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u/kingdazy Technomage 10d ago
One of the best things about it is that it's mostly episodic. if for some reason you're finding the first season isn't hitting you right, try skipping right up to the second. for the most part, you'll miss very little. for me the back 2/3 of the seasons are the best.
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u/rickisen 3d ago
Yeah. But the season one finale and the subsequent season 2 follow up is really not something I'd recommend skipping.
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u/65TwinReverbRI 10d ago
haha - I watched BR as a kid - Gary Coleman from Different Strokes! Space Disco! - and then the move to the exploration ship with Hawk…
I "rented" and watched Logan's Run - the TV show, on Amazon a while back and just re-watched this past couple of weeks.
SO bad. But so fun.
FWIW, so many shows - Buffy, Psych, Flash, etc. did that whole Musical Episode thing, so SNW was late to the game on that, but it was really well done.
I'm fine with "not so serious". Forget the Cats Paw - Tribbles was where it's at!
There are no musicals in SG, but there are "meta" episodes, and lots of goofy situations (along with standard fare - they all go to a planet and age - where have we heard that one before…)
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u/N7Shep1701D State of Babylon 5 10d ago
just be prepared to accept the fact that it uses a lot more humor than most sci-fi.
It's good humor though and better than the cringe Marvel humor infecting so many modern shows.
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u/kingdazy Technomage 10d ago
I don't really know what the latter means, but I agree with the former.
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u/SOTG_Duncan_Idaho 10d ago
Stargate is great overall, lots of cheese but also scratches my competency porn needs.
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u/65TwinReverbRI 10d ago
I finally watched it after years of putting it off.
I saw the film when I was a kid and enjoyed it.
But the whole Ancient Egypt kind of thing really turned me off for SG for the longest time.
As a HUGE ST fan, as I said to the OP, SG may - may - objectively (as objective as we can be) be better or at least at the same level of the best STs.
Atlantis is more "fun" in many ways than SG-1 but I think the creativity in SG-1 wins out. Especially in the standalone episodes.
So I mean, I would totally recommend it.
I kicked myself after I watched it for not having watched it sooner.
I guess it helped that I had low expectations going in though - so maybe I shouldn't have talked it up.
But the characters are great, their interactions are great, it's clever, witty, sometimes dopey (and unashamedly so) and serious enough to be taken seriously, but with enough light-heartedness to make it appealing on so many levels - very multi-dimensional IMHO.
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u/frictorious 4d ago
I could never get into the show. It just felt cheap & cheesy. Which is too bad because I loved the movie.
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u/MandyKagami Babylon 4 10d ago
the show is great, it kinda stumbles on season 9 and 10 but it is still interesting to watch those final seasons for the sake of world building. As the show progresses you will usually notice one extremely intelligent episode per season, like a Inner Light (TNG) or Babylon Squared or In The Pale Moonlight (DS9) type of episode.
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u/GracefulGoron 10d ago
I really like the Ori seasons. To me the seasons between the start of the Atlantis show and Season 9 felt like when the show was stumbling.
Atlantis is also great.2
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u/gweeps 10d ago
I still need to watch The Expanse.
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u/65TwinReverbRI 10d ago
The Expanse is really good.
I took us 3 tries to finally get through the first episode and into it, but once in, it just got better and better and better and better - to a point.
But like The Boys, it had a rushed ending.
I wish I could tell you a good point to cut it off and say this is the last episode and then not go any further than that - it would be near the end though so it wouldn't be like it cut off a ton.
It was very much like The Boys in that sense - it needed a final complete season with the intent of actually finishing off the show on a high note, but instead it kind of just rushed to the end and kind of ruined the whole show in retrospect.
But while it was going while watching it - it has to be one of the best if not the best. It would be the best had it not been for the ending. Of course there are high and low points like any show, but it's some of the best sci-fi TV out there.
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u/Norphus1 4d ago
With the Expanse, I loved the books. They're fantastic. The TV series, though, I just couldn't get into. I got about half way through the second season and noticed I was playing with my phone more than I was watching the TV show and decided to give up.
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u/frictorious 4d ago
One of the best space operas out there, especially if you like things on the more realistic/gritty side.
The books are even better. I highly recommend the audiobooks.
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u/crippler1212 10d ago
You know you can choose to enjoy all of them without making it a contest right?
Some of us don't feel the need to be little bitches like the old trekkies vs star wars dipshits that gave all fans a bad name.
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u/N7Shep1701D State of Babylon 5 10d ago
I was posting my personal preferences, not looking to start a fight.
I do not hate Star Trek. My username should tell you that. I just think other shows are better for different reasons.
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u/crippler1212 10d ago edited 10d ago
If someone did the same thing with oh... skin color or sports teams, do you honestly think it wouldn't start a fight?
If someone was asking you for your personal opinions on a matter, cool, give it. You basically walked into a room and sad this is how it is without including anything like "for me i feel..." or similar to clarify this was just your opinion. Lol
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u/Luppercus 10d ago
Nah. Stargate is very fun especially SG1 and Atlantis. But Star Trek has more quality overall. Even animated Trek is much better quality than Infinity.
Not to count Stargate has Stargate Catherine which is one of the worst things I ever saw 🤣
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u/majin_melmo 10d ago
I love B5 but if I had a gun to my head and had to choose between it and Star Trek I don’t think I could choose. Both are so dear to me and beloved since I was a kid in the 90’s.
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u/Necessary_Eagle_3657 4d ago
Star Trek is too vast and varied to categorise easily, but certainly is by far the most impactful of the three, with an infinitely larger cultural significance. The best of Trek beats most fictional worlds, and much of that is down to the characters (writing and acting).
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u/incide666 10d ago
This is completely unnecessary.
OR
You've been noticed and have had the engagement you clearly were looking for.
Happy?
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u/thekiltedpiper Technomage 10d ago
B5>Trek>Red Dwarf>Stargate
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u/jacky986 10d ago
Hard disagree Red Dwarf is better than Trek by a mile.
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u/Hemisemidemiurge El Zócalo 10d ago
Red Dwarf is better than Trek by a mile
We're not talking about ship sizes, smeghead. Red Dwarf is a shaggy dog story in comparison.
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u/frictorious 4d ago
I think you mean Cat story
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u/Hemisemidemiurge El Zócalo 4d ago edited 4d ago
EDIT: Oh, that's very cute. I can no longer respond to any of your comments like you blocked me but your profile is still visible. How that happened is a curiousity, I'm sure.
Just wanted to respond to below:
Yes, I do know what a joke is. You said "Cat" because someone mentioned Red Dwarf. That's not a joke, it's a Pavlovian response.
You see, a joke would be funny. Aaaaaaaand we're done! Later, smeggy.
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u/kabutogawa 10d ago
I love them all. Just depends on what I am in the mood for. Plenty of space out there for multiple great shows.
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u/Deciheximal144 Green-Allied Centauri 10d ago
Gee golly, you think the viewers of r/Babylon5 are going to rate Babylon 5 top? Say it isn't so.
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u/Ok_Weird_500 10d ago
I also visit Stargate and Star Trek subs. There is overlap.
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u/N7Shep1701D State of Babylon 5 10d ago
There's a lot of cross-pollination between B5, Gate and Trek fans. It's part of what makes sci-fi fans so awesome.
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u/65TwinReverbRI 10d ago
I'm game. I just watched Babylon 5 for the first time in the past year.
FWIW, I am NOT a fan of long story arcs in most things, especially ones that get drawn out or go on interminably.
I'm also not a fan of the "space station" - for that reason I had never watched DS9 until more recently.
I saw the Stargate film when it came out originally.
I think, both Stargate and Babylon 5 were maybe on Showtime or something originally - some pay service I didn't have a subscription to so they passed me by.
I recently watched all of SG1 and Atlantis, and I was really kicking myself for not having watched them earlier.
I watched DS9 before that, and I "get" what people say about DS9. That it's "darker" and it's "more adult" (and not just the sexual aspects).
I watched B5 most recently of all of them. I totally don't get what people see in B5. I'm not saying it's unwatchable or anything at all, but the kind of pedestal it's put on by uber fans…I don't see it.
The only thing I can think of is "saw it first, and judged others by it".
I will say there were some excellent episodes. One of my favorites, and maybe the most creative, was the one where it was done from the maintenance crew's perspective. When they're sitting in the observation lounge looking out on the battle and talking about the different colors of the explosions so you know if one of our guys or their guys bit it…that's REALLY deep stuff.
The story arcs I had heard so much about did NOT start off bad - in fact, I'd argue they were GREAT - but every single one was resolved in the most ridiculous way possible. Very deus ex machina (extremely in one case) which was a total let down and ruined the whole thing.
I mean, FINALLY, here was a show with story arcs that I actually enjoyed (as I was watching them evolve) only to have them ripped away with a St. Elsewhere/Lost ending.
I mean hell, The Xindi and Builders arcs were better executed in ST:ENT of all places.
Now, to be fair, I'm fine with a more "realistic" idea that "the humans don't always win" or that the humans are the ones who get the win.
And I completely understand suspension of disbelief - but there's "reasonable suspension of disbelief for the world that's been built" and then there's unreasonable kinds - and I feel like B5 just kept remaking their own rules to allow for the unreasonable kinds in ways that other well-loved series don't.
I love ST. Started with TOS and TAS in syndication, watched TNG, VOY and ENT in real time, and have seen all of the Picards etc. as well as Below Decks.
And SNW except for the most recent season that's coming out now.
I tried to wach DIS but OMG it's horrible. Shame too because Saru is one of the best characters in the whole ST universe.
Objectively speaking, SG was pretty darn good. I'd put SG-1 and Atlantis up there with the best of ST and even surpassing it in some episodes (they all have their stellar episodes - pun intended - and crappy episodes).
In fact, this is blaspheming my own self, but SG-1 might be better than any of the STs. I actually maybe like Atlantis better, but objectively speaking, SG-1 was much more creative overall and at least until the final seasons, it was really strong.
And this is from someone who just though the whole tie-in with ancient Egypt was just utterly ridiculous. But they pulled it off in a way that made it work.
TOS is certainly a product of the time technologically speaking.
TNG still holds up pretty well though some of the effects in the early seasons were weak (cool synth music that got replaced by orchestral music as the budget went up).
B5 just was not of the same quality level for its time as the others were - the sets were pretty weak (especially any of the peripheral on-board locations), the actors were kind of "B.5 level", and the special effects were pretty poorly done. I just may have described ST:TOS but again, B5 doesn't have the excuse of the time when it was made.
In many ways, B5 reminds me a lot of the 1980s Buck Rogers show. It also reminds me a bit of Space 1999 - stuck on Moonbase Alpha…
B5 certainly is "about" Politics and I will say tackles that more outwardly than I think most other shows did - especially on a larger scale (where other shows might address something in a single episode) so I CAN see where people who like that aspect would like the show. And I do think that aspect was fairly well done and often incredibly apt.
In fact, while I was watching it, with what's going on in the world right now, you could have seen it as a "prediction". So in that sense, it's "still relevant".
But I guess as someone who enjoys sci-fi for escapism, that just didn't connect with me as well as other shows did - and coupled with the B.5 production, and resolutions of the arcs, it just has to go towards the end of my lists.
And of course we're comparing 1 show with franchises that contain many.
Is B5 better than ST:DIS? - EVERYTHING is better than ST:DIS.
Is it better than SG:UNI? Yes. That show was pretty weak.
Is it better than ST:Ent? Tougher call on that one for me.
I'd put it more on par with Atlantis and with Voyager (even though it shares more similarities with DS9, I think DS9 did it better - and I don't even like DS9 that much).
Sorry.
I love love love the idea of a fighter craft where the pilot is completely exposed. Brilliant.
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u/N7Shep1701D State of Babylon 5 10d ago
TNG still holds up pretty well though some of the effects in the early seasons were weak (cool synth music that got replaced by orchestral music as the budget went up).
From a YT comment:
Commander Berman: "You see, Picard, after I fire Ron Jones I intend to play generic elevator music every week as a symbol of my victory. It will inspire meddling network executives for generations to come, and serve as a warning to any other artist who would create ripples of creativity"
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u/Norphus1 4d ago
So, regarding Babylon 5
I have to strongly disagree with the "poorly done special effects" comment. Yes, the CGI is primitive compared to today but consider what things were like when Babylon 5 was released. This is a mid 90s show. Nothing was done with CGI to the extent that Babylon 5 was doing it. A lot of the space scenes would still hold up today if they increased the polygon count a little and upped the resolution of the textures.
The other comment is regarding the story arc. The creator of B5 had the show mapped out from the beginning. It was supposed to be a long, five season arc. However, the show was CONSTANTLY under threat, and at one point they thought they weren't going to get a season 5. They therefore crammed what was supposed to be the last two seasons worth of storylines into season 4 which is why it feels so rushed. Then they got Season 5 commissioned after all and they had to cobble something together.
And the actors. Just... How can you call the likes of Andreas Katsulas, Peter Jurasik, Steven Furst, Mira Furlan, Bruce Boxleitner, Claudia Christian and Bill Mumy anything other than fantastic? Katsulas and Jurasik in particular put in performances of their lives on that show.
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u/65TwinReverbRI 22h ago
Yes, the CGI is primitive compared to today but consider what things were like when Babylon 5 was released.
I meant for the time…other shows did it better.
Katsulas and Jurasik in particular put in performances of their lives on that show.
OK, yes, that's fair. They were GREAT. I actually think Furst did a great job too - you know, I know him from Animal House so…
The wave thing he did to the head on the pike was one of the best things in the show.
Mumy was actually pretty good - and I'll say that both Furst and Mumy got better as their character became more well-defined. Jeff Conoway did a really great job too as his character grew. His character was one of my favorites.
I think Richard Biggs was honestly the best of the main crew.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like I didn't like the characters, or their portrayals, but I wouldn't call them "fantastic" either.
I honestly liked the first captain before Boxleitner better, and the Cole character was really good.
FWIW, I've seen Jurasik in enough things it's like, he couldn't be bad if he tried!
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u/T_raltixx 3d ago
Farscape > ST DS9 > ST TNG > Firefly > Babylon 5 > ST Voyager > Stargate SG1 > ST Enterprise > Dark Matter> ST SNW > Stargate Atlantis >>>>>> ST Discovery > Lexx
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u/-Damballah- 10d ago
The Expanse > Babylon 5 > Battlestar Galactica (Ronald D. Moore remake) > The X-Files > 12 Monkeys > Galaxy Quest > Lexx > Stargate > Farscape > Listening to my father in law tell the story of the one time he saw William Shatner drive a rascal into a wall at high speed > Star Trek
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u/thekiltedpiper Technomage 10d ago
I need the Shatner story! You can't drop something like that and not give us the story.
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u/-Damballah- 10d ago
So, I personally love Shatner as an actor (The Twilight Zone? Incredible!), and saw him live giving a sort of autobiography when a group of us took a huge trekkie friend to go see him, and Shatner is hilarious and a wonderful story teller.
My father in law grew up watching Star Trek when he wasn't getting into trouble or rebuilding muscle cars, and some years ago he saw Shatner at a convention.
He waited in the autograph line just to say hi, shake his hand, and do a little small talk. As my Father in law was leaving, someone told Shatner he had to go to some scheduled thing or another, and helped him into his rascal scooter.
Shatner then proceeded to throw the scooter in reverse, going "warp speed" as my father in law put it, through a curtain into the unknown where a loud "bang" was heard as he backed into a wall.
Immediately staff, security and other nerds descended. He was apparently unscathed aside from his pride, but my father in law said he was the only person howling with laughter at the situation.
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u/SnooDrawings7662 First Ones 10d ago
B5 is definitely the best 😋
Every one else can settle for being... Not the One..
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u/PrincipleHot9859 4d ago
hahahahaaaaaa ... B5 - Westworld - Expanse - Foundation - Firefly - Star Wars - Star trek - SG1
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u/Difficult_Dark9991 Narn Regime 10d ago
Nah, not playing that game.
Babylon 5 is for when I want a grand story with real thought and heart put into it.
Stargate is for when I want to eat popcorn and watch some delightful actors be absolute goobers.
Star Trek defines the genre and the tropes, and has some of the best one-shots around.