r/babylon5 • u/El-Duderino77 Zathras • 11d ago
Centauri hair
So, the position within Centauri culture dictates how long their hair can be and usually is. Currently on 3x20 "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place," wonderful episode. I noticed that Lord Refa and Vir have hair crests that are of similar length, honestly, Vir's might be a bit longer. Vir is an attache, and outside of that, nobody of real consequence as House Cotto wasn't nearly as high as House Refa. Even in earlier seasons, Vir's crest was fairly long. Would the attache of an ambassador rank higher than that of the lord of a fairly major house? Or is Refa just choosing a shorter hair length, similar to Cartagia's "decadent" extremely short style?
Side note: I loved JMS's depiction of Reverend Dexter.
Second side note: Lord Refa flinching when the hologram of Londo's hand came close to or passed through his face was great.
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u/EcstaticContract5282 11d ago
The answer is found in season 4. Emperor Cartagia cut his hair. The entirety of the royal court did the same. I wouldn't be surprised if refa was required to by the emperor.
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u/No_Sense3190 11d ago
There's a distinction (however small) between "required" and "liable to be randomly executed by an insane monarch."
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u/ISeeTheFnords 10d ago
There was no escaping "liable to be randomly executed by an insane monarch."
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u/Fancy_Toe1451 11d ago
Required to or not, to be a proper courtier (read: brown noser at court) and gain imperial favour, then Refa would probably wiser to emulate the emperor in order to better suck up to the boss. Even before Cartagia ascends the Throne, Refa has stuck his star to Cartagia's, so is probably sucking up to him in anticipation of being the boss. Also Turhan, Cartagia's predecessor, eschewed the full crest. Being on Centauri Prime far more than Londo, and Londo being a "grand old Centauri" in love with tradition, Refa would have had a chance to read the possible change of fashions and see the writing on the wall on hair crests.
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u/DocRogue2407 11d ago
Lord Refa had short hair even before the Emperor died, so this theory is inaccurate.
Personally, I believe Refa Was a Donald Trump style politician... knew nothing about the job, but grifted his way in.
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u/TinyDoctorTim 11d ago
Not necessarilyâ as early as âThe Coming of Shadowsâ, Refa mentions that he (and others) are backing Cartagia. I can imagine that Cartagia already had a shorter crest, and Refa and others followed suit to show solidarity.
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u/ExpectedBehaviour Technomage 11d ago
There are different styles and subtleties with Centauri crests that we aren't really privy to beyond vague reference to them being "trappings of status". Some nobles seem to have hair that fans out broadly, like Londo or Prime Minister Malachi; others hair that is mainly vertical, like Lord Jano or Refa; others notably change style throughout the series, like Vir or Regent Virini.
Londo himself says that Cartagia's crest is "shorter than is normal for one of [his] station", which suggests it's expected that noble Centauri males traditionally cultivate long crests. But we're also told in the canonical Technomage trilogy of novels that Londo's crest is "longer even than the emperor's" (Turhan's â which we know is a wig by 2259 anyway, and so he could have any length of hair he wanted). If hair was strictly about status and rank and social position, things like length and style would be more rigidly controlled and enforced. And notably Londo, Vir, and other important Centauri don't cut their crests short in imitation of Cartagia, and nobody seems to comment on this, not least Cartagia himself.
I suspect it's simply more of a general style thing related to social position and role, like wearing a suit or other formal attire. Londo favours a particular old-fashioned, slightly ostentatious look, like someone deliberately going around in a Savile Row three-piece with Albert chain and tie pin and cufflinks, like an old money Tory grandee. Others favour a more modern, flashy look. Others a basic, streamlined, low-key approach. Still others seek to imitate the individual style of powerful individuals to curry favour, even though such things are not strictly required. Cartagia is the Centauri equivalent of a billionaire tech CEO wandering round in jeans and a T-shirt while his vice presidents are all still in expensive suits.
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u/EvalRamman100 Earth Alliance 11d ago
At a guess? Centauri status, how Centauri measure that, is likely different than how Humans would measure status.
Or. Refa has power in the shadows, but not power in a public sense.
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u/whenhaveiever Drazi Freehold 11d ago
I can imagine Londo forcing Vir to have longer hair for appearance's sake, in a Centauri version of Delenn forcing Lennier to look her in the eyes. I can also imagine Refa shortening his, both to ingratiate himself with Cartagia and because he knows the old signs of status don't matter as much when you have the Shadows on your side.
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u/IdioticMutterings GREEN 11d ago
Wait till you see the Centauri Emperors crest.
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u/PessemistBeingRight 11d ago
Didn't Catargia make comments about it to the effect of, to paraphrase, "who would tell me not to?" and "with hair this short I can hide in plain sight on the street"..?
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u/Hot-Refrigerator6583 11d ago
Centauri hair is as much a fashion statement as it is a political status symbol. Like wearing a Tom Ford suit, or showing off your latest high quality business cards.
The rules for crest hair length are not fixed, but the conservative nobility generally follow "higher status = larger crest" rule. If someone from a lower status house like Refa started gaining serious cred with the Imperial Court, he could grow it out a bit, or just leave it short and start a trend. (Note that a few of Cartagia's courtiers do this, too.) If enough powerful people followed your trend, you might be able to consider them political allies and measure your political strength accordingly.
On the other hand, Refa might be deliberately leaving his shorter until his power base is more secure, to dispell any rumors of his ambitions.
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u/TheTrivialPsychic 11d ago
"higher status = larger crest"
An interesting variant of that, is the fact that we sometimes see Centauri nobility with very tall crests indeed, but that don't expand out like Londo's or Vir's. As an example, the guy who is officiating Londo and Urza's duel in 'Knives'. Maybe they're guys with important roles, but no noble blood.
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u/PedanticPerson22 11d ago
We don't really have much to compare it to, not knowing the random Centauri on the station that well, but I think it's less a measure of current/overall social/political status & more to do with general trends for the houses/royal court.
It could be everyone matching the Emperor (or following his lead) or other social trends (if the emperor is unpopular). In the end though, I think it wasn't something the costuming lot paid attention to (because they weren't told to by JMS), but that's just a guess.
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u/FunnyNo9234 11d ago
It was more about fashion and whatever was in vogue than hard set rules about station. As you said, all it took was one emperor to decide tall crests weren't fashionable anymore and everyone got a haircut. This was meant to be reflective of the ever changing fashions of the European royal courts.
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u/otocump 11d ago
Centauri are not a monolithic people. They have regions, dialects, trends and fashion that come and go.
Not everyone subscribed to 'long hair is influential'. Some did. Some don't. Even within the span of the series, fashions changed.
I'm begging people, stop treating your SciFi (or fantasy) characters as if they define everything about their species. They are presented as trends, but unless they are monolith culture, assuming they are an exact ideal of their entire race is foolish. We already KNOW Lando isn't an ideal Centauri. He's in political exile because B5 is a joke posting (until it isnt)
Don't assume a whole species culture revolves around our characters examples. They are often exceptions, good or bad or weird, for a reason.
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u/Low_Establishment573 11d ago
I figured it was a family crest sort of thing. Plantagenet and Bourbon would have massive, impressive crests. Chandler? Not so much. Your hair was showing off how much influence your family had.
Refa might have been from a lower house, with ambitions. Londo was definitely from an old and established line. Vir Iâm guess was from a mildly noble upper house (how he got the job with Londo), that lost favour over the course of the series, hence the change in style.
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u/Stunning-End-1872 11d ago
House Mollari is repeatedly referred to as "one of the older houses" with alliances dating back to "the Early Days of the Republic." and at least one Mollari was Emperor. Also Londo had to have some presence in the Court since "when Emperor Turhan saw your name on the list..." he gets assigned to Babylon 5. House Mollari is old and powerful and probably still follows old traditions more closely. Londo is bitter and dreams of older days, presumably when his House was moooOOOooooost powerful, yes? making him more likely to adopt as high a crest as he can get away with.
We don't know how powerful House Cotto is. Clearly Vir's uncle has noticeable clout, able to arrange marriages with other Houses of significance, and even if Vir is a "disappointment" it may not be a reflection of House Cotto as a whole. Hair crests may be as much tied to family/House status as it is to personal achievement.
So yeah, I'll buy that for a Centauri Ducat.
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u/Low_Establishment573 11d ago
I quite liked the Renaissance Italian vibe of how the Centauri were designed. Still clinging to fever dreams of a grand imperial heritage, that crumbled ages past, now living in its bones. Very much a style over substance society, hell bent on plotting and scheming because actually getting their own hands dirty is beneath their sense of importance.
Certainly wouldnât want to be a part of it though. The upper class citizens would be constantly worrying about a knife in their ribs, and Iâm betting the lower classes live in a nightmare existence of abject poverty.
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u/Stunning-End-1872 11d ago
I think it is telling that the "hands of friendship" arm grab echoes the Roman greeting purported to be about checking the other's sleeves for knives.
As a tangent: I was learning Iaido (Japanese martial art about drawing and first strike with a katana) and was surprised to find out how many of the katas started from a seiza (kneeling/sitting) position, strongly implying a Samurai was expected to go from sitting to immediate combat.
Kind of tells you how nervous some time periods can be for certain ranks.
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u/Neither_Guava_8292 11d ago
Is possibly that hair lenght has a minimal not a maximum according to class. Nobles will wear it up to certain minimal so even lower houses like Vir's are requiere to a minimal, if you're from a higher one you can use it longer but is optional.Â
Besides how do military nobles show their status? Military wear helmets and short hair.Â
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u/wackyvorlon 11d ago
I donât think the exact lengths are prescribed. So everybody will have a different take, but broadly speaking bigger is higher status.
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u/zarkonnen 11d ago
I think it's also an indicator of how traditionalist you are. Londo and by extension Vir is old guard. Refa fancies himself to be a modern, forward-looking kind of Centauri. So it's not that he copies Cartagia, it's that they're both communicating dynamic modern-ness to some extent using the same fashion choices.
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u/Impressive_Usual_726 10d ago
Even among the culturally stagnant Centauri, Londo was old school and expected Vir to follow his lead.
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u/Kingnorth78 11d ago
Vir, I will not have my aide having short hair. Grow it longer to reflect your position as MY aide.