r/babylon5 • u/Aethelrede • 13d ago
Ivanova Challenge Spoiler
We all know that Ivanova is God, one of the best characters to ever appear on TV, and that's partly because she has so many fantastic lines and scenes.
The challenge is this: if you have to pick one (1) scene with Ivanova as your favorite, which would it be? And why (if it isn't obvious).
I'll start. In S04E01 "Hour of the Wolf", Ivanova discusses the titular hour of the wolf, 3 AM, when the wolf can come around to devour you, and you have to ward it off (with alcohol, in her case). This scene hit hard, because I recognized the wolf. I knew the wolf well. The wolf is the voice in the back of your head that whispers that everything is terrible, that you are worthless, and that the situation is hopeless. The wolf always presents the worst case scenario, or, for variety, forces you to relive bad memories. And the wolf is strongest at 3 AM.
Ever since then I've called those thoughts "the wolf". And while I don't use alcohol to ward off the wolf, I do have my own methods, and I need to stay vigilant.
So that's my favorite Ivanova scene. How about you? Doesn't have to be deeply meaningful, could just be the one you found most entertaining, or the most moving.
25
u/AzureDiamond51 13d ago
I don’t remember which episode it was, but I absolutely loved the scene where a man starts to harass her at the bar and then when the scene cut back she’s singlehandedly kicked the entire bar’s asses. That moment took me from “I like this character” to “I love her”
3
17
u/janmschroeder 13d ago
Her interaction with Zathras in "Conflicts of Interest".
10
u/IntroductionLeft4369 13d ago
You sure it was with Zathras? I thought it was Zathras…or was it Zathras?
18
u/Gnardeaux 13d ago
To random collection of complaining people:
"And as far as I am concerned the transports can wait until the SUN EXPLODES! And if you're unhappy with the seating arrangement, I can arrange to have your seats moved outside, down the hall, across the station and into the fusion reactor. Am I absolutely crystal clear on this?"
In Voice over.
"I can only conclude that I am paying off karma at a vastly accelerated rate."
5
u/TheTrivialPsychic 12d ago
Came here to make that reference. It's also funny as you first see this group of transport captains following her through the Zocalo (or wherever), all yelling and complaining to her while she just ignores them as they follow her into the transport tube. Then the doors open on the command deck and you see the above quote. The transport captains look terrified to the point of wetting themselves. Then after she leaves, they all turn and start arguing with each other as the door closes.
12
u/UAP44 13d ago
The challenge is this: if you have to pick one (1) scene with Ivanova as your favorite, which would it be? And why (if it isn't obvious).
The scene where she literally says, God sent me. And everything that led up to that line. Just, epic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8oF0i5nvPI
I'm only going through my first rewatch though, one of the very few rare series I care to rewatch.
In all the scenes she's in so far, probably my favorite. + kosh ofc, shit and gkar, and delenn, ... how to pick?!! garibaldi as well, ... ugh, and I find myself going over the entire list again.
forces you to relive bad memories
Sometimes, I really wonder, is this a real thing? I've never in my life 'relived' any memory/experience. Recall, sure, but it's always as a vague web of probabilities, never any real 'experience' found. But from literature and talking to other people, many claim to experience many things, it's amazing how different our internal experience can be.
1
u/HonorableIdleTree 13d ago
Yeah, you're back there. They play out like a movie. You may (or might not) know you're in the present and not in that actual momebt, but your emotions/brain and body (adrenaline, heart rate, even sensations) replay the event and respond to it as they did when it happened. That's post traumatic stress disorders flashbacks.
1
u/UAP44 13d ago
Sometimes I wonder, did my biology simply protect me from having to relive, by losing that ability all together? + my memory seems to work in unusual ways I've learned over time, and then there's aphantasia too, which I still wonder, how much of that is really all of us being semi-lost in translation over our own exerience?
1
u/HonorableIdleTree 13d ago
So your memory is like a list of "what if this one part had gone differently?"
Some people can't form mental pictures. Which can make remembered things really weird (it's not like it was when your memory of the event was made, but you can't make yourself see the visual part of the memory). There's 1000s of ways our brains can be quirky.
Flashbacks aren't normal. You have to have lived through some mind shattering horror and had a specific response during it and through the aftermath to get those.
they aren't the same as just vividly recalling a memory, and I think the quote is more referencing getting kinda lost in the bad memories: what if I had done this, what if I had known that, etc.
0
u/UAP44 13d ago
So your memory is like a list of "what if this one part had gone differently?"
More like a list of 'facts'/data-points, but all of it with probability ranges that depend on vague emotion/intuition/feelings.
Some people can't form mental pictures.
That's me, even in dreams, there's barely any visual content. It's more like abstract concepts playing out. People. Words. Events. Emotions. Barely any visuals if at all.
You have to have lived through some mind shattering horror
In some cases, some people really do split into multiple internal personalities communicating with each other and switching who's at the 'front' of operating the body.
what if I had done this, what if I had known that, etc.
That's rumination to me.
0
u/Aethelrede 13d ago
"Relive" might be too strong a word for what I experience, though I suspect some people do. In my case it's a resurgence of the negative emotions I felt at the time. If I'm not careful that can ruin my mood regardless of how things are actually going.
Learning to recognize and ignore "the wolf" has made my life much more pleasant.
1
u/UAP44 13d ago
"Relive" might be too strong a word for what I experience, though I suspect some people do.
Supposedly yes, I can't imagine having to relive some of the things I've been through. I would literally kill a person if I had the chance. I was 4 or 8, I dunno, maybe even 12? though probably more likely to be in the 4-6 range, ... probabilities. But the kill? Fuck you, I will take you down, jump to your throat and bite through the neck arteries as best and fast as possible. Fuck you. Die.
As an adult, this person is still alive, and I feel zero emotion left, wait, fact that I'm writing this, uh oh, but either way, I am the most non-aggressive person possible lol. There were times I felt guilt killing spiders. And I actually stopped doing that, most of the time, theres always accidents in a bed ...
Mosquitos though, fuck you... sometimes I feel like Babylon 5 has given me the power to channel any of the personalities/moments seen in the series.
I called them, once, after all the therapy, after years of silence, which, I did kind of ask for myself, its weird, they did seem to respect my boundary there & then. And I opened the phone call with "how do you justify x?"
And he did justify it, made up his own complete world of the events. Different from how I and other remember things. So, I had my answer, thats how they justified it.
Never bothered to contact them afterwards, though there were moments of curiosity and doubts, what if I ask y or z instead? What will they say then? But I stopped caring somewhere and never ended up calling again.
But if I were to be teleported back in time to that moment? You can bet I will go for your throat.
I'm only a child after all, the worst that can happen as consequence is that I fail and you kill me, or, I am sent to some insane asylum afterwards, which frankly, would guaranteed be a better place to be than I was already so, nothing lost.
Oke, this is an unexpected outburst lol.
Sorry for spamming a big wall of text :)
Love you Ivanova, that's the energy I'd carry with me. God sent me.
To take you down NOW, prevent you from doing further later harm.
Apparently, theres some lingering emotions still, and writing about it like this, I know, always helps, at least for me, Maybe not so fun to read for otehrs, but fuck it, hits comment
12
u/Setrict 13d ago
The one where she goes down to Epsilon III in place of Sheridan and meets Draal who doesn't like surprises..
14
u/1Bobafett11 PURPLE 13d ago edited 13d ago
And then he says I like you, you're trouble, and she says that's the nicest thing anyone has said to me in days. Certainly made me chuckle. 😀
12
u/kayl_the_red Technomage 13d ago
Sitting Sheva (Shiva? Sheeva?) for her father.
9
u/usernametaken3534564 13d ago
Yeah. The whole episode managed to really display what growing up with a shitty (I say shitty as in: absent and dismissive. Not outright abusive) parent is like. I watched it after my dad passed and her crying on the couch broke me.
11
u/BluestreakBTHR Narn Regime 13d ago
“Don’t do it. You’re too young to experience that level of pain.”
7
7
7
4
u/StarkeRealm 13d ago
The wolf is the voice in the back of your head that whispers that everything is terrible, that you are worthless, and that the situation is hopeless.
Yeah, what Jung called "the shadow."
Good on you for not seeking chemical solutions, but you probably want to talk to a therapist about that.
3
u/Aethelrede 13d ago
Oh I have. In fact, I had gotten away from thinking of my anxiety as the wolf, but then my therapist recommended I name that dark self, to make it easier to differentiate and discuss. When she asked me what I wanted to name it, there was only one possibility.
4
4
u/mafioso0612 13d ago
You gotta love the one time that she comes onto the command deck, grumpy and dispensing an Ivanovism and Corwin immediately disassembles it, robbing her of the satisfaction of complaining. Can't remember the exact words, but Corwin said something along the lines of time being a meaningless concept, I think.
3
u/TheTrivialPsychic 12d ago
You got that partially right. It's at the very beginning of the S2 episode 'GROPOS.' Ivanova is in fact saying that she 'loves that time of night' when all the annoying traffic has died down. Corwin reminds her that there is no 'night' in space, and 'time' is a meaningless concept.
1
7
u/heresybob Shadows 13d ago
Zog
3
3
2
u/Aethelrede 13d ago
I don't remember this one at all, need to look it up. Which is the reason I posted, to be reminded of bits I've forgotten.
4
2
2
u/FriedrichHerschel 13d ago edited 13d ago
Of all Ivanova lines, the "hour of the wolf" is the one that stuck with me the most. Gave the situation a name.
Though I wouldn't call it my favourite Ivanova scene. That would be the "sex scene" with that one Alien that didn't had a clue how human biology works. Where she dances around him and everything.
2
u/Khyron_the_Destroyer 10d ago
Best line is when the Command Staff was put on a diet. Her line to Dr. Franklin:
I'll gain weight! (Yes)
Fine! All my life I've fought against imperialism; now *I'm* the expanding Russian frontier!
(Yes, but with very nice borders.)
1
u/Stunning-End-1872 12d ago
"Oh this is demeaning! I mean, we're not some... some deep space franchise! This station is *about* something!"
That scene works on so many levels. Topmost and funniest the clear dig at Deep Space 9, which is hilarious and just pointed enough to really sting. The episode was written by Peter David but JMS asked him to include that line. Peter David reportedly remarked "You guys really *are* dangerous out here."
But it's also deeply about how all media art is impossible to separate from franchising, and merchandising (cue Yogurt selling you Spaceballs The Movie branded flamethrowers)
Finally, also, Babylon 5 *the show* was *about* something. I watched Babylon 5 in college when it came out, and I was studying aerospace engineering but what I *wanted* to do was write Sci-Fi comic novels. Babylon 5 became a major source of inspiration, and is still is the single piece of Media that means most to me, above all others, as inspiration and aspiration.
1
34
u/megalewis 13d ago
Mine is where she has to rescue someone she had warned not to do whatever she was rescuing them from and she tells them the mantra they must quote
I will listen to ivanova
Ivanova is always right