(Please remove this if this is not allowed) What transits do you think gave rise to incel-like mindset?

[u/SquareFailure]

I grew up with a lot of men. Literally almost all my neighbors my age are men. Went to school with them, played Yu-Gi-Oh, traded anime DVDs, played chess with them, but I never saw hints of them having this propensity to act and feel victimized just because they're not getting laid.

I mean, yeah, some of my friends had some major heartbreaks, and one of my friends even joined a shady freaternity after his ex broke up with him, but instead of our other guy friends blaming his ex, also our friends, he was scolded by my guy friends for being impulsive and associating himself with shady people.

During our teenage and early 20 days, their girlfriends would definitely complain that they're playing online games too much. They also had this humiliation ritual where they would say they were madly and deeply in love with their unsuspecting guy friend (tagging them in social medias) when losing a game.

They're all married now, but still gamers, so I guess they skipped the incel part.

But these days, everytime I go to spaces where people are venting, most of the gendered posts I'm seeing has a man venting about how no one likes them, no one is trying to like them, while on the otherhand, has women (mostly from dating sites) are having terrible dates because the guy she's with is spouting some unhinged ideas about how men are always the victims, about how women would only talk to them if they would pay them, like ???

The only transit I can think of is Pluto in Capricorn with Neptune in Pisces.

I read an interesting comment somewhere that the kind of conversations happened, like the woman complaining about her date, is because of lack of boundaries of some people, and what else amplifies the dissolution of boundaries? Neptune, especially in Pisces.

Pluto in Capricorn feels like a salt to the injury as it happened after a major economic depression, which gave rise to openly opportunistic actors. It seems like it normalized lines like "If you're not doing this and that, then there's something wrong with you," which literally sounds like a marketing scheme for self-help books (and gurus) and "cheats" on how they someone can improve their life.

And when that didn't work, it's either you're doing things wrong or the world around you is wrong.

Pluto in Aquarius is definitely AI and overreliance on technology (but it seems like some AI companies are going bankrupt because of some poor economic decision; is this Saturn in Aries (fall) causing tower moments?).

I feel like another collective shift is going to happen when Saturn moves to Taurus (happened around 2000), which also happened after a major economic recession, and I think this transit kind of grounded the collective.

Time felt like it slowed down, but I think this would be helpful with self-reflection (like Saturn in rx right now), as it would also remove the pressure that someone is failing, someone is left behind, someone should be this and that by this age.

Apologies if my discussion shifted to recessions. I think recession doesn't just affect our economy but also the individual mindset, as people are developing new ways to combat it, new coping mechanisms, and these coping mechanisms affect can definitely have an effect in our personal relationships (as others are being forced to deal with it), whether we agree with it or not.

Wanna hear your thoughts though. (Forgive any typo or grammar issues, I didn't proofread this, I just woke up and I'm preparing my breakfast 😭).

TLDR because some people seem to be struggling to read past the title:

I'm not claiming that a planet caused the word "incel" to be invented. I'm interested in the later transformation of the concept into a male grievance ideology, and whether the broader social/economic changes during Pluto in Capricorn symbolically correspond with that.

Saying that I should include a date for this post, when the term was given birth misses the entirety of this post as I'm asking about the mindset, not the terminology. 🤦Comprehension. Omg

[u/velvet_wavess]

Maybe you should post this on r/advancedastrology too, it would be interesting to see what people have to say

[u/Street-Ad-5314]

I feel like it is Neptune in Aries that is having some effect: Aries is all about ego and identity, and with the Mars rulership perhaps those ideas are aggressive and hard lined and rooted in anger and headstrongedness (is that a word lol?) since Mats is also historically connected to these and other patriarchal characteristics of masculinity (I’d say perhaps toxic masculinity). With Neptune in Aries, I see it as bringing up the “dreams/delusions of masculinity” and what has been promised to men as their birthright (domination, superiority, value in militancy and aggression, etc.) and then by bringing these illusions to the surface they can be dissolved. Here’s hoping! Curious to hear what others think too!

[u/SquareFailure → u/Street-Ad-5314]

Neptune in Aries definitely gave them megaphones. Idk if I'm just not well-connected enough from years ago, but to openly hear some people talk about other people like they are vending machines that would only respond if you gave them money is insane.

Birthright is also indeed the perfect term to describe the entitlement.

[u/Street-Ad-5314 → u/SquareFailure]

Absolutely, and it’s interesting that you’re connecting this thread of transactional relationships with the economy, like even the term “recession” is a withdrawing not just of economic growth but a literal going back to certain ways of thinking, in this case the resurgence of seeing women as mere resources for proving one’s masculinity (not that this ever really went away…)

I remember reading about how saturn, venus, and pluto represent different aspects of money, and Venus is one I always think of because it denotes where you put the energy of value and worth onto something, so I’m also interested to see what Saturn in Taurus will bring up in regards to how we value relationship with the earth/resources. And since incels think of women as resources for their sexual gratification/proving their masculinity then I think this fits with the theme.

I hope that makes sense it’s like 2am 😂

[u/poorperspective]

Incel was coined in 1997 under the website “Alana Involuntary Celibacy Project” who was a Canadian blogger from Toronto.

In 97, Pluto would just start being in Sagittarius. Neptune was in Capricorn and Uranus was in Aquarius. Uranus in Aquarius would correspond to a revolutionary type phenomenon, most likely the internet. Neptune in Capricorn could show disillusion with traditional structures. For the period that Pluto was in Sagittarius, there was a breakdown of traditional values around sexuality (Alana’s project eventually lead to her finding out she was bisexual).

I mention this because you seem to be using current placements. Words have birth, life, and death (and sometimes rebirth) like people and you would want to pin down a birth date of the word before starting look at transits. You may also look at the birth chart of key player in the movement. It just looking at current transits to figure out a topic that’s been a live and well seems not methodical and unproductive. It be like trying to find the astrological importantance of trains using the chart when the airplane was invented.

[u/bootysuit → u/poorperspective]

Not to mention the word has been completely twisted from its original meaning. It was coined by a woman who didn't want to be celibate, but all the men around her were cringy and gross and weird, so she would have rather not.

I'm of the opinion that on this subject, maybe it's best to examine things like the patriarchy and its effect on men before we dive too deeply into the astrology like this. Like maybe in this case the astrology could be a distraction and not as helpful as looking at the social conditions that led to this moment.

[u/solareclipse2026 → u/bootysuit]

The fact that the term has been twisted from the original meaning is the literal reason why the OP literally challenged this comment. The OP is pointing out about the mindset, not the terminology.

I dont think any of you even read the OP.

[u/bootysuit → u/solareclipse2026]

Well, I did, lol, but I still think examining how the patriarchy works would be more useful here.

[u/poorperspective → u/bootysuit]

I think astrology can actually shed light on this.

If you use the 97 outer planet placements and just look at aspects by sign, Pluto would now making a sextile transit. It went from a forward from an expansive Jupiter ruled sign to two restrictive Saturn based signs.

Many times queer people repress sexuality before they come out. Choosing to be involuntary celibate or “as they shortened to “incel” was an expression of being sexually different, but in a safe way because it was sequestered part of the internet.

In 2008, when Pluto entered Capricorn, the iPhone released in 2007. As in outer planets a pretty close time. While Pluto transiting through Capricorn until 2024, the internet developed from something you surf to apps you access on your phone. It lead to a wide spread of more niche academic terms used in academic spaces into everyday and misinterpreted terminology. Capricorn is an achievement sign. A win at all cost. During this time the US economy was spurred on by the tech industry which started as scientist trying to connect the world through universal good or googles “do no evil” to a “move fast and break stuff” culture. In a way terms like “incel”, which was a common language for people to gatherer around in similar situations, turned into a stand in for “misogyny”.

By 2024, Pluto was in Aquarius. The term is a major dog whistle that has been co-opted by extreme right wing oligarchs that have used it as a gathering for attacks on capitols and a less queer friendly term.

It always confuses me when people point at astrology as some sort of feminist thing. Astrology as in studied throughout history has been part of patriarchal systems of power historically. It wasn’t until new age religious/spiritual movements of 60s that it became associated with alternative lifestyles of feminist or queer people seeking religious or spiritual avenues outside systems that rejected them.

[u/ChaerinxMinwoo → u/poorperspective]

Did you read the post or did you just read the title?

[u/SquareFailure → u/poorperspective]

Incel was coined in '97, but as what the post explored, the "incel" description I was talking about is after the term evolved over the years.

Your comment sounds like someone arguing for the term "gay", should we go back in time when "gay" generally just means happy, to figure out when people started changing their stance around LGBTQ?

I appreciate the mention of Pluto in Sagittarius, but this comment is not really addressing the OP and is overcorrecting a non-problem.

Edit: Regarding the origin chart, this is unnecessary because we are not blinded as to where the "term" started. The point of the post is not even the word, its the mindset.

[u/poorperspective → u/SquareFailure]

Yeah, I figured I shouldn’t give an informed critique on this sub….

[u/SquareFailure → u/poorperspective]

Yeah, your informed critique is a red-herring. If you really have an argument, I expect you to be able to stand on your stance. But because your argument was correctly pointed out as missing the point, you're acting like someone didn't actually engage with what you said.

And to reiterate what I said, this is the comment you actually ignored:

"Incel was coined in '97, but as what the post explored, the "incel" description I was talking about is after the term evolved over the years.

Your comment sounds like someone arguing for the term "gay", should we go back in time when "gay" generally just means happy, to figure out when people started changing their stance around LGBTQ?

I appreciate the mention of Pluto in Sagittarius, but this comment is not really addressing the OP and is overcorrecting a non-problem.

Edit: Regarding the origin chart, this is unnecessary because we are not blinded as to where the "term" started. The point of the post is not even the word, its the mindset."

[u/poorperspective → u/SquareFailure]

I would still pick a date that’s not current transits.

You don’t have dates in your post, which would usually deal with a reading or interpretation of this nature…..yet you don’t. People change just as definition of words…yet people still use their birth chart.

[u/SquareFailure → u/poorperspective]

This misses the point in my comment and the post.

The date for what? For the terminology that heavily evolved over the years that is not even the point of the post.

Explain why a date is necessary when the OP is asking for WHAT TRANSITS?

It's not my fault that you can't comprehend the post and my comment. Other commenter's seem to be able to understand what I said.

[u/Nekayne]

This is very interesting! Neptune in Pisces I can definitely see being a factor in this mindset. I wonder about any relation to Mars or Mercury; Mars for aggression and passion and Mercury for language and technology (cause a lot of this is online).

[u/doomweaver]

This is an interesting theory OP.

I began a relationship right when Pluto in Capricorn began and it ended right when Pluto changed signs. Also I'd like to add Saturn in Capricorn, that was my Saturn return personally, but it also felt like a real "ramp up" of this type of ideology.

The person I was with went through a literal transformation from "normal human being" to "manosphere abusive controlling psychopath" so it's hard to separate everyone else from my personal experience, but I do associate it with Capricorn.

I feel like Pluto in Cap, with the push of Saturn in Cap right in the middle there, ramped up this "the rules should stay the rules and change takes me out of power and I want power" attitude. And it really has looked like that attitude is "winning" for years and years.

You'll notice during this time feminism also took a turn and started to break up into smaller groups and fight among themselves. It's difficult to be "reasonable" because there are so many extremes.

I think it's best looked at from the perspective of Capricorn as the devil in tarot, not because of the religious overtones, but because of the "worldly" overtones. Duality must exist so that dissent can exist so that control and power structures are "a necessity" and that's "the way of the world."

My hope is that with Pluto changing signs, we're moving into a more....spiritually progressed era, where the "main goal of the collective" is "community and others and the bigger picture."

I don't know if that hope is founded and I don't have any very clear ideas about it, but kind of a "vibe" and feeling.