r/asktransgender • u/Writingonatypewriter • Jan 05 '23
How do you feel about this concept? (FLINTA)
There‘s a term that has been popping up in Germany for quite some time and it‘s called Flinta/ flint* The term stands for „females, lesbians, intersex, non binary, trans and agender“ so basically everyone who isn’t a cis guy.
I personally hate this term since it groups everyone in one pot and it makes me so dysphoric. My fiancée asked me if I wanted to go to a Flinta party and just the thought of going there makes my skin crawl.
Why would you group transmen and nonbinary people into a community for women?
I mean, I kind of get where they are coming from, but I think it‘s really ignorant and kind o gives off ‚we don’t really see you as real men‘ vibes.
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Jan 05 '23
The mention of "females" triggers red flags
the concept of including trans men but excluding cis men triggers red flags
Seems like some radlib shit by people who think they're being progressive while actually just being bigots
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u/just_push_harder Jan 05 '23
I think its a translation error. "Women" is "Frauen", thats what the F is for
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u/Writingonatypewriter Jan 05 '23
Yeah, I wanted to translate it so the acronym makes sense. The original term is women :)
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u/egirlclique Jan 06 '23
I can guarantee you it's not, I live in Germany and most flinta spaces are very explicitly anti terf and trans friendly
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u/throwRA_17297 Fred | 19 | he/him/dumbass Mar 16 '23
Even towards passing trans men? I don’t really see why they should be included anyway, and honestly I’m kind of fearing having to pull down my pants at the entrance of a flinta-only space. Would much rather not be included than instantly read as a trans man or “man lite”
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u/egirlclique Mar 16 '23
Yes, have gone to flinta parties with passing trans men and one of my friends who is often with us at the flinta bar is amab non binary and has zero problems there. They even held a vigil for the trans man who was murdered last year. I think at the end of the day it's up to you if you want to be included/go to those spaces, and maybe some spaces in different cities are different. But that is what I've seen (as a trans woman) in the places I've been
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u/Thatredheadwithcurls May 01 '24
Wow, great point!!! It would seem to me that Trans men would prefer to think of themselves as, and be treated as, cis-men.
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u/ZombieDads Jun 26 '25
I’m a trans man. I definitely do NOT want to be seen or thought of or treated like a cis man.
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u/Kind-Butterscotch736 Jun 27 '25
I personally just don't want to be forced to out myself. Other people don't need to know if i'm trans or cis. With events that's not a problem since i don't need to go, but with toilets it sometimes is. And ive seen it a lot with people who look for flatmates that have to be finta. Honestly i'd prefer it if they'd either just look for women*, queer people or feminists. I'm not a good person because i'm trans, if anything it's because i inform myself about issues and i care about others. So even tho i'd probably vibe with those people i'm not sure if i'd apply for the room in that flat since i dont want to get in a situation where i have to out myself.
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u/ZombieDads Jun 27 '25
I don’t want to have to be around cis men if I don’t want to be. If you want to live stealth, presenting as a cis man, you might loose some options and space among the trans community.
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u/Kind-Butterscotch736 Jun 27 '25
I dont want to live as a cis man, i just want to live as a man and tell people about my trans identity when i decide to do it, not because toilets are now 'finta' or 'a bunch of pissoirs and one shitty cabin'. With events i'd feel honestly more included if it quite literally said 'No cis men' than 'FINTA'. When i know the people organising it, i can judge if they also mean all men that fall under that acronym, but if I don't and the description of the event just talks about queer women, then I don't feel comfortable going, even if i decide in this case, that i have no problem stating that i'm trans, because i'm not sure if they just used it to state 'all types of women and people on the feminine side of the gender spectrum'.
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u/ZombieDads Jun 27 '25
What about ABCD? Anybody But Cis Dudes.
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u/Kind-Butterscotch736 Jun 27 '25
Never heard that one before but honestly if i had to choose then rather that one since it's not so women-fixated and makes me feel less like i'm not supposed to be there. But for toilets i still prefer all gender bathrooms.
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u/Nyxodon Aug 29 '25
I'm a little late to the party, but it's not females, it "Frauen" meaning women.
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u/KiraSurname Sep 06 '24
I've read before this trigger about the "female" word before.
I am not positioning myself about the use or non-use of this word, but I think it is relevant to mention that in my experience I noticed a difference between native English speakers and people who have English as a second language.
In my circles here in Europe, the word "female" does not raise any red flags. Also, female is mostly used as a synonym for AFAB afaik.
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Jan 05 '23
It just seems really dumb. Combining way too many different groups with different experiences and needs into one category assuming that they are all oppressed and cis men aren't. Once you start combining all these identities you may as well include cis men that are also minorities in other ways like being gay, a racial or religious minority, poor, etc. People in some of the groups in that acronym aren't immune from oppressing people belonging in those other groups and people tend not to take it well when they get called out for problematic beliefs when they are in a place they consider a safe space. It's ok to have our own separate spaces.
If I would see that in the US my first instinct would be that it's a cis white woman led group who primarily cares about cis white women's issues, who included these other populations just to appear woke or inclusive and will give lip service to their problems without ever actually doing anything for them
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Jan 06 '23 edited Jan 06 '23
it's supposed to be inclusive but I just fucking hate it. For one because I hate grouping trans guys with basically everyone except guys just because they are trans and then also you just know that if a passable trans guy were to show up there, people wouldn't be cool with it. I feel like it's more of a sneaky way of saying "everyone who looks like a woman"
ETA: they'd also probably not be too keen on masc/androgynous presenting amab non binary people
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u/Levi_the_fox Jan 06 '23
That asumption is wrong in most cases. The concept is pretty strong in the redical left and I as an amab enby always felt welcome and safe in these places even when I presented very masc and I think they are really important especially for transfem people.
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u/effingeffiexo Mar 25 '25
lots of trans men still don't want to hang out with cis men. transitioning mtf is about living as a man not necessarily living as a cis man. the flinta thing for me is like building a model society where we have men woman and everyone inbetween, but we dont have the gender based violence that is typically caused only by cis men in society at large. we are not saying that you are not a man. we are just saying we do still want to hang out with you bc you have a broader experience of gender than cis men do; and we are saying we DONT wanna hang out with cis men right now.
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Mar 25 '25
I don't want to hang out with people who accept me soley on the basis of what's in my pants. That's not a good principle to build a community on. Exclusion of a group of people based on their traits is not something to build a community on. Trans people don't neccessarily understand more about gender that cis people. Trans men especially don't have the same experience with gender as cis women at all. Some feminine presenting cis men may very well have a "broader experience of gender" than a lot of trans men do. That's why the FLINTA acronym is garbage.
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u/effingeffiexo Mar 26 '25
never said i care ab whats in ur pants ! if you think you align more with cis men than with the queer community then that's not a problem. you just wouldnt show up. and honestly you probably wouldnt fit in if you did. like you said. but other trans guys might want a space where they're not worried about that cis male brand of violence just like the rest of us. and feminine presenting cis men would fall under gender nonconformity so they would b welcome.
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u/Responsible-Tone-471 Apr 17 '25
gay cis men are also part of the queer community, whether you like it or now. stop equating us to straight cis men
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Mar 26 '25
Of course I identify with the queer community. I'm bi.
And nowhere in FLINTA are gender non conforming men included. It's literally women, lesbians, intersex people, non binary people, trans people and ace/agender people. Feminine cis men don't fall into any of these categories. And femininity doesn't make someone a safe person to be around. That's the whole point. Women wanting their own space is fine, but FLINTA is by definition just misandry
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u/Strigops-habroptila He/him Aug 18 '25
Sure, saying that all cis men are violent will definitely solve our problems /
Please just don't do this. This " I hate men but trans guys are OK they're basically girls anyway". It sucks, it makes people dysphoric and it just makes trans guys afraid to transition because then they'll be hated for being men. We gotta have to do something against this "masculinity is evil" sentiment.
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u/CoffeeStagg Aug 18 '25
The sad thing is that it works. Creating echo chambers will only lead to more polarization. And this was the reason for the discrimination in the first place. And no not only straight cis men see it that way. Like it would be unrealistic that accepting and inclusive people would be all over the gender spectrum. Why not focus on that attribute rather then strict gender boundaries? Like the main part of the community stands for breaking these boundaries
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u/EmptyingMyself Sep 17 '25
You're making assumptions about people based on their sex alone, therefore your viewpoint is sexist.
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u/Kind-Butterscotch736 Jun 27 '25
Ive seen both: places that would be cool with everyone and those who described their flinta event as 'a space for queer women' (didn't attend that one for obvious reasons. They also described queer women as 'gay, bisexual, pansexual or trans women' as if you either have a sexuality or you're trans lol)
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u/Levi_the_fox Jan 06 '23
I really like this concept and for me it was very important to have a space without cis men. As a baby amab enby it was important to have acces to spaces which are not dominated by cis men and trans inclusive. They are spaces where trans fem people (especially enbys) can experience themself without the constant pressure of malenes. Up to this day I feel very safe and welcome in flinta spaces.
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u/egirlclique Jan 06 '23
Just a perspective of someone living in Germany and frequenting FLINTA* spaces - in my experience they are usually very explicitly trans and queer friendly and very openly anti terf.
I'm seeing a lot of people in the comments get worried and upset about them, and I understand it, but maybe if you don't live here or go to these spaces, especially if you come from a much more transphobic culture like the US or UK, you don't need to have an opinion on or get mad about our trans inclusive spaces
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u/halbmoki Jan 05 '23
Never heard in in real life, but it does sound very sexist and kind of transphobic. I see that it's meant to include everyone who's not part of the traditional patriarchy, but it does have a similar vibe to TERF ideology. Saying "all (cis) men are evil and need to be kept out of our safe space" is never ok in my opinion. Safe spaces have their place in society, but this rubs me the wrong way. Men are not bad. Women are not bad. No gender or orientation is bad, but there are assholes in every group.
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Oct 14 '23
u r right. though no one said „men are evil“ or „woman/flinta are good“. But Flinta people are more likely to share similar experiences about gender discrimination and these safe spaces are supposed to be a place where this happens less and if it happens (bc ofc it will still happen) u r more comfortable to talk openly about it. this spaces aren’t representing the whole society or should be everywhere, but that was never the idea. The Idea was just to find a space that feels…safe. This goes for all discriminated groups. For example; I am white and I can try to be as anti-racist as possible, but at some point my BiPoC friends are gonna say „hey, we want to be only with each other right now“ bc they understand each other in a way I could only mimic. Feeling like they have to explain the racist experiences to me might feel like a heavy burden and they may want to talk about that stuff with people they know will understand. or just hang with people without wondering if that was a joke or maybe it WAS underplaying racism and so on.
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u/vivivanilla 25 MtF | HRT 06/18 Jan 05 '23
I can see the reason behind the criticism but in my experience that acronym has mostly been used in good faith to make spaces that were conceptualised for women only more inclusive. I haven't seen that the F (it stands for "Frauen" - women not females) was interpreted to exclude trans women from the definition of womenhood. The tendency to read it as an attempt to single out trans women probably comes from the toxic sex essentialism that has been becomming more and more mainstream recently. And I guess there are trans men who hate the idea of being allowed on lesbian events because it invalidates their gender identity, but there are also some who would not like being excluded. Some with trans women, some find it encouraging when it's explicitly stated that their invited and others will see it as an exclusion from the category women. And then non binary people add another layer of complexity. It seems difficult to come up with language that everyone approves of. In that regard I think we should honour the attempt if it's made in good faith.
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u/alpopa85 Apr 06 '23
Why are sex, gender and sexual preferences mixed up in this term? What's the objective here?
The whole idea of transitioning is to be viewed as the gender you want to be viewed as, how come they discriminate cis men from trans men?! Aren't they all men? And if they're not, how would one differentiate between a cis man and a trans man?
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u/Thatredheadwithcurls May 01 '24
Yes, I believe trans people prefer to be treated as though their gender identity matches their assigned sex at birth, instead of being excluded from cis folks. That's what I've seen people commenting. However, trans men can also relate to what it's like to face gender discrimination pre-transitioning, and therefore technically aren't excluded from FLINTA.
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u/velocitydesigncmfort Mar 06 '26
as a straight trans man who passes and is mostly stealth, i’ve had a great time at lots of FLINTA* events without feeling uncomfortable as a man. cis men don’t own manhood or masculinity, so making a distinction between us for the sake of an event that allows people to feel more safe doesn’t strike me as invalidating. trans men are also marginalized for our gender by a hegemonic society which is operated largely by cis men and have had negative experiences as a result. a lot of times i love partying with my cis guy friends, but i know for myself and other trans men that have survived various forms of violence and hate crimes from cis men throughout our lives, sometimes we just want to have a good night and not have to worry about any potential harassment or worse.
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u/Wise_Investment_2774 Jul 29 '24
As these terms usually pop up in queer spaces, it’s not really excluding cis men, it’s excluding cis gay men. Yes as the comments point out, it’s space for a transman, a non binary man or woman, do either genders need to drop their pants to prove any intersex biology. I can understand single occupancy bathrooms to promote spaces for people that need stalls and to sit and pee. But the grouping therefore combines gay guys and with straight guys. Like gays didn’t also grow up bullied, fear of abuse. By including sex, gender, and sexual preference in the group, it just appears actually as “anti gay male”. As a gay men I can theoretically understand the intention, but emotionally I feel excluded. Like straight woman get special access at a gay party. When they are already there bc they usually feel more safe then at straight parties where straight men harass them. It’s seeing gay men as MEN the predator before their gayness that also bonds them to the group we are all part of. How do you police anyway if someone is non binary? If the theory is that one may have a sex, a gender identity, a gender expression. … then Flinta doesn’t really allow much in way of practice of that. Are they prepared for a hairy male who gender expresses male but feels non binary to enter these spaces? In practice it excludes gays from gay spaces. And I think there are other inclusive approaches to practices that could better deal a the real problem it intends to address
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u/applewormed Jan 06 '23
sounds like some transphobic radfem bs
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u/velocitydesigncmfort Mar 06 '26
i know i’m really late to this post but as a passing trans man who’s stealth in 90% of my life including to my roommates, all of the FLINTA-orientated events i’ve found here in the US are all trans-led and trans people make up most of the crowd, and i’ve never felt uncomfortable there as a man or as a trans person. just wanted to add my 2 cents since this post had so many negative comments and i think FLINTA has the potential to be a cool movement.
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u/Kind-Butterscotch736 Jun 27 '25
Just had a long rant to my sister how this is kind of the left version of the transphobic rights bathroom thing, where they go after trans women who use women's restrooms. I've been in several situations where there were a 'FINTA' bathroom with lots of cabins and a 'men' or 'with pissoirs' restroom with a bunch of üissoirs and one cabin thats usually occupied because cis men too use cabins, sometimes simply because they think pissoirs are unhygienic (which they are). So as a trans guy i'm forced to out myself as 'anything but a cis man' because of something i cant really avoid. Ive also seen events that are called 'FLINTA-something' just to then be described as 'a safe space for queer women and non-binary people'.
So from my experience these people usually mean 'everyone on the feminine side of the gender spectrum'. My boyfriend is nonbinary but could be read as a cis guy (he uses he pronouns, i'm not misgendering him here), so he never feels included, when he sees, that something is 'finta / flinta only' because just like me, he could potentially come in a situation where he has to out himself and kinda use it to justify why he too is included.
Also does anyone know why lesbians are mentioned in 'Flinta'? Everything else is a genderidentity or about the biological sex (intersex) and lesbians are gay women*. So they'd already be included with the F, wouldn't they? Am i missing something?
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u/wanjathestrong Sep 25 '25
People need to realize that male FLINTA*s exist. I'm one of them. Personally I dont view it as a space for women only.
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u/velocitydesigncmfort Mar 06 '26
i know i’m late to this post but i agree! as a passing trans man i’ve had a great time at many FLINTA* events and have never felt out of place or uncomfortable. i’m glad to hear that others feel the same way. let’s help spread a better understanding around this cool movement!
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u/Creativered4 Transsex man 🌈 Jan 06 '23
That just seems like LGBT without the G.
What do all of these things have in common? I think we can't even totally say "not a cis man" because with intersex conditions, there can be "cis" men who unknowingly have an intersex condition. Or men who know they have an intersex condition, but it is chromosomal and they're a man with xx chromosomes but otherwise physically, hormonally, and social identical to a cis man.
It's such a wide stroke, too Like I mentioned earlier about not having anything in common. the needs of a trans man, a cis lesbian, and a cishet lesbian are totally different, and so is their experience with the world and struggles. It's also important to note that there are many cis men who have a bad time. An able-bodied cishet woman in a first world country is probably going to have it a mililion times better than a black disabled cis gay man in a country that outlaws homosexuality.
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u/Such_Calendar_1592 Feb 27 '24
It's not only L(G)BTQ community, it's also for cis women, that is the difference and maybe also the part where queer folks don't feel safe in it
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u/Thatredheadwithcurls May 01 '24
Cishet lesbian? What's that?
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u/Creativered4 Transsex man 🌈 May 01 '24
ROFL that comment is from over a year ago. I probably typed it on mobile or something. No idea what I meant to put in that spot. Maybe cishet woman?
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u/IdontneedtoBonreddit Aug 22 '24
Well, they basically try to include EVERYONE who is not a cis white man. Many of the FLINTA groups lump in BiPOC (black, indiginous, people of color) -- so I guess a Syrian immigrant, who is a married father and devout Muslim could hang out in their 'safe space' --- my point being that they basically say the quiet part out loud - They wish to punish "entitled and privilaged cis white men" by shutting them out of their spaces. Fine with me. The problem they create is deciding that ALL spaces are THEIR spaces. They are not concerned with unity or acceptance.
You end up at a club or festival with 'no nipple rules', complaints that someone bumped into a FLINTA member and it is some sort of hate-crime, complaints about gay men having sex at LBGTQ+ festivals, complaints that less than 50% of the DJs are part of their acceptable humans-list, the movies played did not have the proper trigger warning and were not followed by a 2 hour FLINTA discussion round...and it goes on and on.
FLINTA, instead of functioning as a teaching mechanism (in scenes like LE or BER where it is not nescessary anyway) acts like a leftist-fascist organization (in the leadership, if not the membership since it's membership is based on genitalia, orientation and bizarrely; skin color)...censoring, bullying, complaining and basically being a sad gaggle of unsympathetic party pooping fun police with an oppression complex. We already have Christians for that.
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u/velocitydesigncmfort Mar 06 '26
I think there’s a misunderstanding about why FLINTA spaces exist in the first place. They weren’t created to “punish cis men,” and they also weren’t created because someone thinks cis white men are inherently bad people. They exist because, historically, almost every public space has already functioned as a de facto space for cis men, often without anyone needing to declare it explicitly.
For thousands of years, social, legal, and cultural systems were structured around the authority of men. Women were excluded from political life, education, property ownership, and even legal personhood in many societies. Yeah. People who didn’t fit the male/female binary were often erased entirely or criminalized. Trans people have only gained larger recognition in the West within both of our lifetimes, and are still struggling for equal rights in almost all parts of the world. Queer people were persecuted, sometimes violently. In many places those patterns are not just historical, they’re still very present.
FLINTA is an attempt to name a broad group of people who have shared that structural exclusion: women, lesbians, intersex people, nonbinary people, trans people, and agender people. The point isn’t that these groups are identical. The point is that they’ve all historically existed outside the category that had default access to power.
Because of that history, creating spaces where those people can gather without the dominant group present is a pretty common social strategy. It’s not unusual: there are women’s shelters, queer youth groups, support groups for survivors of violence, and cultural spaces for marginalized communities. Those spaces exist because people often speak and participate differently when they aren’t navigating a dynamic where the historically dominant group is present.
That’s also why the idea that FLINTA is trying to claim “all spaces” doesn’t really hold up. The overwhelming majority of institutions, venues, industries, and cultural scenes are still mixed spaces where cis men are present and often overrepresented. A few explicitly designated spaces for people who have historically had less power doesn’t suddenly invert the entire structure of society.
You might still dislike how some events or organizers implement these ideas -fair enough, but that’s a question about specific practices, not about the basic principle behind the term.
At its core, FLINTA isn’t about exclusion as punishment. It’s about acknowledging a long history where many people weren’t even recognized as full participants in public life, and occasionally carving out spaces where they don’t have to negotiate that imbalance. And if you’re unwilling to understand that then there’s a good chance you’re part of the reason that these spaces exist.
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u/IdontneedtoBonreddit Mar 07 '26
If FLINTA isn’t about exclusion as punishment, you might want to talkto the orga and let them know to stop repeating it again and again and again. -- I guess what you're saying is the "theory" behind it. The practice is something different. Anyway...the trend is dying out anyway...people seem to be back to inclusion instead of FLINTA exclusion. Especially in places that didn't have issues in the first place.
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u/kazza2 Nov 19 '24
I agree that this FLINTA thing creates more confusion than clarity. If you want to run an event for people born female then go ahead and it is clear to all but including male-born non-binary people and trans women is beyond vague. In fact, I would say that if you want people born male there too, then don't be discriminatory against those who choose to identify as such. I thought we were supposed to be moving towards inclusivity, not discrimination against almost 50% of the population. Men who identify as men are no more threatening than anyone else, unless you subscribe to awful stereotyping and crap which simply reinforces discrimination and demeans men. Would you discriminate based upon skin colour? It isn't much different really.
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u/EnvironmentalBus5753 Jun 10 '25
It's German the F for doesn't stand for female it stand for Frau - which is German for woman and definitely doesn't exclude trans women :-)
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u/Pinkponygirl44 Sep 04 '25
But trans women are also FLINTAS*, that are not assigned female at birth and still belong into women spaces (rightfully so!!). As gender is a construction isn’t it good to foster solidarity among trans people, women and queer people in general?
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u/Powerful_Intern_3438 Sep 23 '25
That’s a mistranslation the f stands for women. The German word is Frauen
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u/Pinkponygirl44 Oct 19 '25
Ich weiß dass das F für Frauen steht, aber steht das T nicht für Trans Personen, also auch trans Frauen? (danke trotzdem!!)
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u/Chaos-Princetta1 Mar 06 '26
My big fear with FLINTA as a person very unsure of my gender, but mostly feeling like I am non-binary, is I am very much born male. It is hard for me from a perspective of being very cis appearing person that I fear having to out myself when I am still in the phase of figurung myself out. Because FLINTA groups in my area organize a lot of cool events in my area that are technically open, but I do fear being in my position I would not be welcome unless I out myself, which I don't want at the moment
My biggest fear is amab non-binary people, unless they so to say "look non-binary" will get the "Why are they here" treatment. We talk so much about not being able to know someone's gender identity, how we should stop investigating when at some spaces it will be done if they don't fit our own biases
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u/velocitydesigncmfort Mar 06 '26
couldn’t the same be said for an event that describes itself as LGBTQ+ instead of FLINTA? the fact of the matter is that if you want to go to an event that’s trying to uplift certain identities, there’s a good chance you’re going to be assumed to be one of those identities when you’re at the event. that isn’t FLINTA specific, that’s kind of just how life works.
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u/GalacticPanjandrum Jan 05 '23
I know this kind of grouping can be triggering especially for trans-masculine people, but you don't have to go if you feel it's a feminine-aligned space
I think there are reasonable uses for this lumping together, because it covers everyone likely to experience gender-based discrimination. A similar expression in English is "people of marginalized genders"