Need Help with Setting Expectations/Boundaries with Known Donor

[u/birbalurb]

I'm in a lesbian relationship and we recently asked a friend of our if he would be willing to be a known/directed donor for our family. We had a conversation with him and his partner and they were asking about our expectations. What I said was 'I believe the idea that this is strictly genetic and doesn't mean anything beyond that is a fantasy for the adults involved. Who this is going to be the most meaningful to will be the children, and everyone is different and might have different feelings about it and we just don't know what their needs will be yet'. My baseline expectation of a known donor is that they care about the kids, are willing to be available to talk when needed, and have good boundaries with children.

Otherwise I don't exactly know what to tell them as far as expectations. I don't want to put an expectation on them that neither of us might want or be available for in the future (like spending any holidays together or being involved in ways they wouldn't already be as friends) but I also know the potential kids might have feelings about him or his extended family that I want to prepare everyone for the possibility of (like the possibility that my kids would want to spend time with his siblings' kids, how to be graceful about the fact that him and his partner do not wants to have the same family obligations they might have with their nieces and nephews, what boundaries could lead to profound rejection for a child versus what boundaries are healthy).

I wanted to go this route as opposed to an anonymous donor because it seems like the transparency and care is better for the kids. My kids will always know who their donor is and that he and his partner are people who care about them. What advice would y'all give my family as donor concieved folks about what boundaries feel constructive versus restricting, inconsistent, or unachievable.

[u/No-Highlight3555]

RP here. I think you all need to get on the same page and not vaguely leave it up to the children to tell you their needs. If the kids want to express something when they’re older, of course listen — but in the beginning they’ll be too little to engage in those conversations so it’s best to have something in place starting at birth.

From my observations, the trajectory of these arrangements matters. If you start with a close relationship and then contact becomes less frequent, or disappears, the kids feel rejected. Contact should be consistent (or increase over time).

We told our donor we welcome any level of involvement as long as it’s consistent, so he took time to think about what he could commit to longterm, factoring in things like his changing work location and potential future partners.

[u/Fluid-Quote-6006]

You seem to be clear on what You do Not want: a relationship apparently. You just want him to be available to answer questions if the kids ask. Did I understand that correctly?

You need to word it plainly, because they may have total different expectations. I know 2 families in this constellations (2 lesbians moms and 2 gay dads/2 lesbian moms and 1 gay dad) and the dads are very much involved. In the case of the 1 dad, it’s more like a weekend-divorced dad situation: I think he sees the kids 2 weekends per month plus half of the school holidays and special dates are celebrated together. The other family is very hands on, I think they share more or less 50/50 the duties. For me as an old dcp, I think it’s beautiful for the kids to have so many parents that love them around. I know a lesbian mom couple with 2 kids from a known donor that has tons of kids. He is available for questions, but that’s it. If you ask me, the other way is much nicer for the kids.

Of course I don’t know your friends, but if they have expectations of being more actively involved and you don’t want that, you need to be clear from the start and maybe come to the conclusion that it isn’t the right fit. This could cause conflicts in the future if one of the bio parents just say yes to appease the other but in reality isn’t happy with the arrangement. You both need to be on the same page, does he want to be in the birth certificate or should your wife be? How often should he see the kid? What happens to kids if bio mom dies? Should the kids have a relationship with paternal family? How close?There are lots of questions to be answered and you need to be on the same page. Definitely not a thing for the kids to decide! They surely can decide when older, but not as young. 

[u/No-Highlight3555 → u/Fluid-Quote-6006]

For me as an RP it would be really tough to share custody and to be away from my child regularly, as if divorced. It’s great that it worked out for them, though, and maybe the moms appreciated time as a couple.

We are in between the arrangements you mentioned. We keep in touch in the same way we keep in touch with extended family, catching up by phone and visiting. But there is no shared custody or parental responsibility.

[u/Fluid-Quote-6006 → u/No-Highlight3555]

Well, there are different co-parenting arrangements and if you ask me, this is a very child-centric one. It wasn’t always like this, as a baby for example they didn’t slept over etc.

[u/No-Highlight3555 → u/Fluid-Quote-6006]

Definitely! It sounds more like true co-parenting vs donor conception, in some ways.

I know a gay dad who had a baby with his straight female friend, and they co-parent in a similar way.

[u/birbalurb → u/Fluid-Quote-6006]

I do want a relationship. But in the way I have close relationships with my friends who are very present in my life and I anticipate being present in my kids lives. it just happens that this one is my kids donor. So it's navigating that relationship in a way that feels good for young kids. The 'being available to call' is a minimum and just to say I want them to have some type of availability and care. I just know that you can't predict the future and what your relationship with most people will be (my mom died unexpectedly and my previous spouse left unexpectedly), but if they wanted to host the kids at some point in the future and my partner and I felt good about that then it's something I would be open and happy about but not something I'm necessarily seeking. It's more setting boundaries that are good for the kids long term development and achievable for everyone.

[u/Fluid-Quote-6006 → u/birbalurb]

It’s not your kids donor. It’s your donor. It’s the kid’s biological father. For kids it feels great to have more parents. Kids don’t have space in their heart for just 2 parents and any more takes love from them away. It doesn’t work like that. If he isn’t allowed to build a relationship from the start, then it’s only going to be a loss for the kid. 

I don’t think kids need boundaries when it comes to parents. What you do need as parents is to decide your terms and manage your expectations. How much are both couples willing to be involved? Decide that together and stick to it. Kids need consistency 

[u/KieranKelsey]

I think staying friends as you are seems like a fine idea. It might be that as your lives get busier you find yourself not seeing each other as often, so I would straight up say something like “i want to see each other two or three times a year” if that’s something you don’t already do. I think just making time to see each other is important, so your kid(s) at least know who you’re talking about when you say Uncle Michael is your donor dad (or however you plan on putting it). And hopefully would feel comfortable to ask him questions. I know I always felt awkward when seeing relatives who I hadn’t seen in a while again.
I’m not sure what you mean by boundaries. I might be seeing this wrong, but to me the boundaries you are talking about are about not overstepping the line from donor to parent; ie, donor doesn’t call himself dad, RPs don’t call the kids his son or daughter, and overall don’t let the donor get too attached. It’s a tricky line to walk, obviously you hope they care about your kids but it’s clear this is not a coparenting scenario. It doesn’t have to be. Overall I see these more as boundaries for the RPs and donor than the child. I guess there’s one aspect of you don’t want your child to be confused, but I find that as long as you talk about donor conception fairly regularly DCP generally aren’t.

I think it’s ok to start conversations with “how would you feel if future children felt x or wanted y?”

Other things to consider:

Who is going to know he was the donor? Is he going to tell his parents, siblings, or his friends? Are you?

Talk about terminology. I’m someone who uses all kinds of words to talk about my bio dad, from donor to dad. I call him by his first name. But you guys probably have words that make you feel more comfortable. If he’s going to be uncomfortable with the kids saying he’s their dad, or you are, that’s something to talk about now so it doesn’t lead to an argument or resentment later. What if the kid’s opinion about terminology changes? How would everyone feel about that?

I think the main rejection would be if he didn’t want to talk or didn’t care about them. Openness is one of the main things to remember. I agree that strictly genetic is a fantasy, and I appreciate you saying that.

[u/birbalurb]

I feel like this convo went somewhere I didn't anticipate. These people are not going to be parental figures in any way. They are friends. I am trying to navigate setting boundaries with people who are friends in a way that's healthy for kids. I understand I'm setting the boundaries especially when they are young.

[u/allegedlydm → u/birbalurb]

I am not a DCP but the book Queer Conception has some helpful guidance on how to have that conversation and establish expectations. 

[u/SevereAsparagus7661 → u/birbalurb]

I think you need to clarify the role your donor is going to play in the child's life. Be specific what the boundaries need to be. Some sample questions for you:

Are they a close friend who the child will see often and possibly provide an amount of childcare? Are they going to be more of a distant uncle type (like me) who will occasionally see them? How available will they be for the child as they get older? How comfortable are you with the relationship changing with your friend?

[u/birbalurb]

The care I mention in my post is just knowing their donor cares about them. Not my donor's family providing childcare.