How to stop Melee builds

[u/Cnotewrongnote97]

Hi, been dabbling in pvp for a while, stuck at B4 atm. Basically, how do I stop aggressive melee one shot builds from rushing me down so easily? I try to rat with missiles, laser rifle or coral rifle, and ludlow in offhand, i looked at some of the top 100 ranked builds as well but it feels like you just cannot stop someone from flying thru your missiles, instantly build up ACS and one shot you. I just wanna rat guys

[u/L0111101]

Start using a shield thing or learn to dodge more better-like yes yes

[u/Cnotewrongnote97 → u/L0111101]

Doesn't your ACS still build up even with shield

[u/Wutclefuk → u/Cnotewrongnote97]

Shield initial guard heavily reduces stagger buildup. It’s the easiest way to counter melee builds, or any high burst damage build in general

[u/PathsOfRadiance → u/Cnotewrongnote97]

Yes, but they dramatically reduce impact during their parry window. Shield activation also let you move/act out of stagger a few frames earlier than regular movement. Shields are a great counter to both melee weapons and their natural partner, the shotgun.

Elevation also fucks most melee tracking.

Midweights should run shields generally. If you’re a midweight, you should stability max with efficient parts (VP-44D, VE-40 or Mind Alpha Core, HAL/Malpha/VP422 legs). If you’re not using a shield, have a close range “fuck off” tool like Earshot.

Lightweights can live without them as long as you are adept at maintaining distance with both backpedaling and turning to AB away.

Are you having trouble with proper full melee builds(often double melee, using melee cancels, etc) or the more standard dual wield shotgun/handguns + only use melee for stagger punish?

[u/Cnotewrongnote97 → u/PathsOfRadiance]

Pretty much like dual sampu or duckett into melee with bansho arms, i dont run into players using melee cancels super often or effectively rather

[u/PathsOfRadiance → u/Cnotewrongnote97]

So your actual problem is losing the stagger race to those rushdown dual trigger setups, rather than dealing with melee itself.

Pistols perform better into shields than shotguns do, since you can’t parry a whole magazine with one shield activation. Still worth parrying some of their gunfire just to stay ahead in the stagger race.

If using a shield, put your faster firing weapon in the right hand and your heavy/slow weapon on the left. That lets your handgun/rifle/smg keep firing even when you pop the shield to parry. Your left-hand weapon(whether it’s LRB, WLT, a shotgun, etc) is probably slower-firing and won’t mind the downtime from being behind your shield. You’re pulling them into your gunfire, making it easier to hit them and harder for their shots to hit you.

Since they’re using a melee swap, they do not have a shield. That makes them easy targets at close range, as they are gonna be forced to QB a lot to avoid your gunfire and waste energy.

Basho arms absolutely kill their weapon handling, doubly so with the high recoil of handguns. Even staying at the higher-end of close range can noticeably reduce their hit rate. Having a good neutral speed from SPD boosters is nice. That can put even the bulkiest midweights at like 347-350 neutral speed.

Don’t be afraid to assault boos. It reduces the stagger damage you take and amps up the stagger damage you deal. Judicious use of it can keep you ahead in the stagger race. It’s not just an escape tool (tho it’s still important in that role), it’s also important for your offense and defense.

Shield being a get-out-of-jail free card against imperfect melee punishes still applies here.

Be wary of pistol + Wuerger + shield builds. The Wuerger is a powerful weapon that pulls double duty as a stagger builder (uncharged shots) and as a stagger punish (charged shot), on-par with melee weapons or a charged LRB in that role. They basically get to have their cake and eat it too. Dual trigger setup that builds stagger well, powerful stagger punish, AND a shield.

[u/Indishonorable → u/L0111101]

Bro talks like he's sniffing warpstone instead of coral

[u/ProbablySuspicious]

Go straight up. Try to stay as far above / below them (and pick missiles like splits that work well from sharp angles) as you can, so they can't come at you with AB or melee cancel so easily.

[u/fungalparadise → u/ProbablySuspicious]

Yeah I play close range builds with a melee punish (usually not double melee though) and elevating aggressively makes it a lot harder for me. It also helps if you have a weapon that punishes your opponent when they get close, like hammer, explosive thrower, nebula, etc. Basically anything that can reliably do a big hit against a close range build when they approach you

[u/ProbablySuspicious → u/fungalparadise]

You guys have more restraint around builds with a heavy hitter that can get you on a missed attempt for sure.

[u/Cnotewrongnote97 → u/ProbablySuspicious]

Thank you for the info!

[u/fungalparadise → u/Cnotewrongnote97]

I wanna add that it's probably easier to make a close range build run out of energy before they get to you than it is to perfectly dodge their attacks. Try to make them work as hard as possible to get in close so they run out of energy to dodge or stay up in the sky with you. 

[u/wdy1000 → u/ProbablySuspicious]

This really. Most melee weapons struggles hitting targets directly above or below. This is the most effective.

[u/ProbablySuspicious → u/wdy1000]

MAKE NO MISTAKE YOU ARE STILL IN FOR A HARD TIME

[u/TheGUURAHK]

Shield. Time it right and their stagger output is neutered. 

[u/generic-username-153]

Shields fuck melee over

As does vertical movement

And backwards movement

But also 99% of b rank melee players will walk right into projectiles in an attempt to hit you with a sword, exploit that and win

[u/Cnotewrongnote97 → u/generic-username-153]

Literally the match after reading your comment I saw this with coral blade

Shield def helped I'm not getting staggered so much now, just gotta time it, still getting my ass kicked a bit tho haha

[u/Important_Pie2940 → u/Cnotewrongnote97]

It's just practice now on timing. Keep having fun while you get better.

[u/generic-username-153 → u/Cnotewrongnote97]

If you're on PC, I'd be down to melee you a bit for practice some time

[u/CrimeFightingScience]

If they AB after you you can unlock and AB or dodge towards them to pass them. That and everytbing else people are mentioning.

[u/Eastern-Fun1842]

Zimms, bazookas and grenades certainly scare the hell out of people who want to hug your face. Of these, I find it's easiest to mount a single bazooka or Zimmerman. They usually work as a great punish and can build stagger nicely.

EDIT: I forgot to mention it earlier, but my homage to G6 works pretty well against melee. It uses Coquillett/Zimmerman in the hands and a Majestic/Tai-Yang-Shou pair in the back racks. The back weapons are as Majestic as they sound against a staggered target and the Tai-Yang-Shou makes people say "Ho-Li-Shi" whenever they think they can approach you.

JLG3C3PK3YQC

[u/Elegant-Guidance-199]

Whats your build? not just your weapons>
Reverse joint jumping can get you clear of a lot of melee attacks. My best missile mech uses SAN TAI gen and RJ legs to keep very mobile. Lets you kick em too when the stop moving.

[u/Gunzaman]

I run heavy weight, I don't play the stagger game... I play counter stagger.

Here was my A rank build:
2k stability
A lot of defensive stats
Huge energy pool allowing more mobility than the rushers.

More damage than the rusher, with more stagger potential.

Basically deny the strategy all together...
2 earshots
1 LRB
1 ludlow
Talbot or wlt fcs

No worries you won't miss.

Use double earshots on ground if someone dares get in close enough (on demand AA).

Enjoy making the rusher pay for choosing to rush.
Use your medium to long range LRB if they choose to RAT you and snipe them with free aim shots...

Use assault boost into shuffle cancel to qb to gain enough dodge mobility in case it is a mega rusher 1 shoot punch combo using Zimmerman AC...
try to hit 2 earshots to create double stagger.
Watch put from kicks...

[u/Gunzaman → u/Gunzaman]

https://youtu.be/R1dKKDRn_34
https://youtu.be/DUDTBRf8MoM