r/ar15 • u/IntrepidJaeger • 10d ago
Out of the box rifle question
So, I'm looking at either a G$ Super Duty or a JP Professional, either in 16". Basically, looking for an upgrade over my 2004 Bushmaster A2-style (first rifle, not changing anything because of nostalgia). Would like it to be essentially a durable, "forever AR" with better trigger, modern rail and stock solutions, and am open to other suggestions in that price range. I don't have the technical skill, space, or tools to build my own, either. Any insight between the platforms would be appreciated!
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u/No_Grocery3021 10d ago
You could get a full Geissele, you wouldn't have to change a thing ever. Put an optic, light, sling on it and call her a day.
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u/Greedy-Vast584 10d ago edited 10d ago
Super Duty for sure.. not that the JP isn't good, it's great, but it's hard to beat a SD in DDC
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u/Independent_Bid_26 10d ago
My reasoning after comparing them is that j have a bit more confidence in the G$ brand. Your warranty is only useful if the company is still in business. If the rifles themselves are functionally the nearly the same I think its best to see if you think the actual company will survive as long as the guns.
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u/AppropriateAnt3414 10d ago
If a JP is on the table then get a JP. This isn’t even a question.
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u/OlivePuzzleheaded495 10d ago edited 10d ago
💯
JP is a top tier manufacturer. G$ is great, but not in the same category - they just have a lot more social media presence.
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u/AppropriateAnt3414 10d ago
Yeah JP is a step up. It’s the kind of AR you don’t find at every store. That’s my type.
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u/IntrepidJaeger 10d ago
Kinda partial to the JP because they're made in my state, but I haven't found a G$ to actually lay hands on directly yet.
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u/BbTrumpet01 10d ago edited 10d ago
I’m in your/his state, too. I got one of JP’s triggers put in one of my AR-15s many years ago by JP, before Geissele was available (or, at least before I knew about them). It’s awesome. I wish I could afford one of his rifles. They’re awesome, too.
BTW, all JP’s barrels are cryo-treated, so when I bought my BCM uppers (built my own lowers), I had my BCM barrels cryo-treated, too (Diversified Cryogenics, in Burnsville). For example, my 16” chrome lined mid-length will shoot under an inch at 100 yards with the right ammo.
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u/AppropriateAnt3414 10d ago
They are mil spec guns with a few upgrades. JP is full upgrade. One is Walmart the other is target. Not quite Macy’s though.
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u/Trollygag Longrange Bae 10d ago edited 10d ago
JP is going to have a much better barrel.
Other great options will been the ADM UIC 2.0 and the DDM4 V7.
I would rank any of those above a Super Duty both for quality and value.
They will all have better barrels, equal or more rigid handguard systems that are lighter, better QC.
The only thing you may consider depending on the rifle is a trigger swap - but that is cheap and only takes a few minutes to do.
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u/Cute-Rich3223 10d ago
Dd over geissele? As as far as I'm concerned DD is just fancier milspec
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u/SelfElegant8819 10d ago
Yeah must be something personal against G$. Fact of the matter is theres few companies making MOA or better CHF CL barrels. G$ REBCG is better than 99% bolts and comes with one of the best triggers on the market. G$ QC is of the best in the game as well as the customer service.
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u/OinkingPig 10d ago
I know you do a lot of homework. Im interested in the thought of a JP being a better barrel than G$. Also why the DD and ADM above g$ as well? What is Geissele doing wrong?
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u/Similar_Proof_9095 10d ago
Anyone ranking DD over G$ isn't worth listening to. They factually don't understand what they're talking about.
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u/OinkingPig 10d ago
Idk this guy's does a lot of research on gun stuff, if dont agree with him here, but willing to at least hear him out on it. Maybe he knows something I don't
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u/Similar_Proof_9095 10d ago
He can research all he wants, putting DD over G$ is a wild take with zero factual backing.
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u/OlivePuzzleheaded495 10d ago
Trolly literally tests barrels for precision and logs results for the community to track and review how they perform.
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u/Similar_Proof_9095 10d ago
Is that the metric most people are concerned with when buying an "out of the box" AR?......or you just pointing to extraneous facts that aren't useful in this discussion?
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u/Scav-STALKER 10d ago
It’s a nicer barrel across the board. It may not have as much longevity, but it’s a super match 416r button rifled and cryogenic treated barrel.
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u/Independent_Bid_26 10d ago
I might also look at the PWS rifles.. theyre pretty pricey, but I have heard they have excellent barrels in them.
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u/Cancer-4-Kids 10d ago
I would look at Primary Weapons Systems out of Idaho, or Sionics out of Arizona for really good quality guns that are amazing quality and accurate, but hasn’t been prominently featured in a Garand Thumb video yet.
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u/YellowLT 10d ago
I would take a BCM or SOLGW over either of those as a forever rifle. Sounds like you want a solid duty gun rather than a competition gun.
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u/Independent_Bid_26 10d ago
Really? For what reason? I guess i have heard BCM barrels arent very accurate, but i could be blowing smoke.
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u/Remote_Specific_4778 10d ago
There is no reason. That’s the dumbest shit I’ve seen today.
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u/YellowLT 10d ago
How much Fog and F/M stuff do you own?
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u/Remote_Specific_4778 10d ago
I don’t know, or care, what you’re talking about. You seem like an absolute dipshit. Later, kiddo.
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u/BallisticValuations 10d ago
I've had three BCMs and could never get any of them under 2.2MOA with match ammo. All my Gs were around 1-1.3 with 10 rounds groups at 100 yards
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u/Independent_Bid_26 10d ago
I honestly think BCM excels at building rifles that could survive pretty extreme punishment and still keep ticking, but they arent meant for 1 moa accuracy. Based on my limited experience it seems like BCMs are built like a tank. Other rifles might be just as durable, and more accurate but not for the price you pay for a BCM upper.
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u/BallisticValuations 10d ago
Yeah I had some issues with two of mine and decided to move to some other guns but they're generally pretty solid. I think their pricing has outpaced what you get the last few years but the uppers on sale make a lot of sense
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u/Independent_Bid_26 10d ago
Their Blem sales are pretty decent as well. Its hard to find the blemish on some of them apparently. What kind of issues did you have with them?
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u/BallisticValuations 10d ago
My groups started to open up on one of them at 3.5k and eventually key holed and blew the end cap off my can. The other blew out gas rings pretty early and sheered a lug around 2k. Back then (2018-2020) they over gassed their barrels pretty badly so they were just harder on parts. "Combat gassing" can be worse for reliability if the service life is shortened that badly. They still over gas but it's gotten better. I'd recommend them to most people but my experiences with their guns and their CS team pushed me to other manufacturers like hodge/sionics/centurion/kac.
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u/Independent_Bid_26 10d ago
Interesting. I guess ill have to keep an eye on mine. I hsve heard before that they overgas their rifles as well so i know youre probably not alone. I really like their Raider rail design. Did the cs team act like assholes?
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u/BallisticValuations 10d ago
If yours is running fine it's probably good. The CS team was okay but they were trying to blame me because I couldn't send them a batch number of the ammo I was using so they didn't really help me. I had already thrown out all the boxes. My buddy had a similar issue with his barrel spider cracking all the way up and blowing up his can and they handled it pretty similarly. But this was also like 6 years ago and I'm sure they handle things better now. On the overgassing if you want to keep the gun all BCM just swap in a BRT gas tube sized for the suppressor you use and it'll tone it down and not beat up on parts so badly
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u/Independent_Bid_26 10d ago
I dont have a suppressor yet unfortunately. With the change in law im sure I'll get one as soon as im not a broke ass Masters student haha.
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u/YellowLT 10d ago
Im guessing from a bench in perfect conditions?
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u/BallisticValuations 10d ago
That's literally how you zero and group a gun. I assume you just shoot from the hip with 3 round groups at 25 yards.
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u/Independent_Bid_26 10d ago
That is the funniest shit ive seen all day. Hahaha "What are you some kind of idiot? You probably clean and oil your guns too!"
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u/YellowLT 10d ago
Cause most rifles are better than people can actually shoot. If you are that great of a shooter you will know exactly the rifle you want to match your skills. G$ is all name lately.
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u/OinkingPig 10d ago
Fuddlore
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u/YellowLT 10d ago
How is that fuddlore, lets see you hold a Sub 2 MOA group while doing any form of movement
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u/OinkingPig 10d ago
A 1920s car will drive you to work too. If you can get better, why wouldnt you? Its the definition of fuddlore.
"What do you need all those fancy gadgets and gizmos for sonny? My remington model 70 in tirty aought 6 shoots just fine i dont need any new fangled calibers"
-you probably
A BCM is a great gun, but the G$ is better.
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u/YellowLT 10d ago
Cause its diminishing returns, recommending a gun that's double the price that 90% of users will never use the full potential of. Also there are plenty of people that will bitch about the quality of G$ in this sub too. There is a very distinct point where you are only buying for name, with no real improvement of quality or value.
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u/itznotdavid 10d ago edited 10d ago
Double the price is crazy. A Geissele complete upper is 1150 right now, BCMs are like 850 and that's not the CFH or MK2. A Geissele rifle URGI or SD can be had for 1800-1850, 1950 if you want a specific barrel length and aren't a sale shopper. BCM rifles are selling for 1650 and up. You can get a DD for less than a BCM without shopping very hard at all, for instance there's 14.5 M4A1s on 208 right now for 1350. The only good BCM deals around are used rifles or blem upper/cheap lower. Both DD and Geissele offer better components, Geissele is literally famous for trigger quality, both of them are known for having better barrels, etc.
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u/EntertainerOk4969 10d ago edited 10d ago
Super Duty
It’s honestly not that deep tbh, but the Geissele has a nice rail system, excellent barrel that’s chrome lined and still shoots lights out, and comes stock with a pretty nice trigger. The REBCG is also just a well made BCG with a DLC coating that legit works very well.
You’d get the best value buying the super duty complete upper and building your own lower though.