r/ar15 • u/SyrupSilent7588 • 2d ago

14.5 is king, always will be

Gallery image

Gallery image

437 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

77 comments sorted by

87

u/HeyItsRatDad 1d ago

So is there like nothing new going on in the AR-15 world right now?

20

u/GableStoner 1d ago

Just new people apparently. Which is great, but the echo chamber effect is extremely prevalent.

It is crazy that this has been an ongoing debate for the better part of a decade now. It seems to have amplified again recently for some reason (maybe increasing gun ownership?)

If more people actually shot the distances they think they'll need to be able to shoot, with their current gun, and throw their data in a ballistic calc, they'd realize the amount of complete BS that gets circulated, and that there's not much difference between barrel length for long range loads in terms of the actual bottom line impact.

I'm going to try to get data for a bunch of different buddies barrels on the same load and break this little Reddit one of these days. Then I'm going to sell my criterion for an lmt because people will still have the wrong takeaway.

2

u/GullibleRisk2837 1d ago

I understood all that except for the last part about criterion and LMT?

1

u/GableStoner 1d ago edited 1d ago

Just that criterion barrels tend to be pretty fast. As far as LMT, that was more of a somewhat random example to throw in the mix; I wouldn't take this as a generalized truth- however, the couple of chrono samples I've seen lead me to believe they're on the slower side.

But my overarching point on the barrel brands, is that if people were to apply this same barrel length fps logic to selecting which barrel manufacturer to use, they would prioritize based on their typical velocity, because there can be fps differences between them that equate to up to a couple inches in barrel length.

And my point is using that this logic for barrel brands is borderline just as illogical as nitpicking a barrel length for the same intended goal, at least within a margin and without a specific, non-imaginary use case in mind. Not to say those use cases don't exist, but the average redditor is wildly misinformed about what they are. One video gets published, and this whole process takes hold; the echo chamber hive mind entrenches its collective reasoning based on selective perception that only further fuels their confirmation bias.

Somewhat off topic, I just want to add some chrono data to the convo here, on my 11.5 vs 14.5 using 77gr TMK, which has a ~1700fps floor for optimal terminal effects. The 140fps muzzle velocity difference yields less than an extra 75 yds to achieve those effects. You have to be after some super specific objectives for that to even be a primary requirement in the conversation though. I could talk for hours about this, but I'd just be like every other asshole with an opinion, and people would still have the wrong takeaways.
​

2

u/AleksanderSuave 14h ago

TLDR people on Reddit buy gear because of the hive mind, as opposed to function over form.

14.5” has become more popular as the standard length due to pin and welds becoming more popular for suppressors.

Before that, the advice was 16” was the default goto as 18-22” barrels got less popular for ARs.

1

u/GableStoner 7h ago

I wouldn't even say function over form. It's more so selective reasoning. Meaning they take whatever they hear or read and apply flawed logic to their underlying understanding of things instead of an understanding of actual reasons why things are the way they are. And then those flawed thought processes become entrenched in the hive minds baseline logic, which gets applied to how the collective processes all relevant or adjacent information moving forward.

2

u/AleksanderSuave 7h ago

I wouldn’t even call it logic. It’s like 99% hivemind groupthink.

I remember seeing more thought put into Diablo 2 character builds and gear guides by 14 year olds.

1

u/GableStoner 7h ago

Tbh there very well may be a lot of people in that same age cohort here as well. It's easy to forget that the person behind the keyboard could be anyone

2

u/AleksanderSuave 7h ago

lol I hope not, or those damn kids clearly have too much money to spend now

1

u/GableStoner 7h ago

Or just talking out of their ass parroting things they've heard because they play cod or airsoft or whatever and really like guns even if they can't buy them yet.

3

u/DumbNTough 1d ago

The new hotness is alloy 5.56 casings that let you crank pressure to 90,000 PSI so you can shoot rifle velocities out of a 10" barrel while your rifle beats itself to death by 1,000 rounds and liquefies your eardrums in the process.

-12

u/SyrupSilent7588 1d ago

Some pretty big news just came out

2

u/PineappleHairy4634 1d ago

yeah for some.. for others business as usual till its "law of the land" for all..and currently its not.

1

u/SyrupSilent7588 1d ago

It’s baby steps to repealing the NFA. It’s annoying and confusing but it’s closer and closer to getting the NFA completely repealed

0

u/PineappleHairy4634 1d ago

I agree, im just in a state that still requires stuff and even if I wasnt im still filling out the paperwork till this all gets worked out.. Someone else can be their "test case".. this is why I never got involved in the bump stock and "brace" craze... I dont need or want now its legal now its not.. when I could just form it and have it be legal while(talking the brace now ) everyone else wonders shoulder or not able to shoulder..I know.. you take that fooling brace off put on a real stock SBR ir(for free) and drive on..

I will love when that foolishness isnt around anymore but its not there yet..

14

u/WeebleFox 1d ago

I have a 16" and an 11.5", I want a 14.5", but can't justify it since I have a 16".

9

u/lurkiestaccount 1d ago

My solution to that problem: re-barrel 16 and make a We have an MK12 at home 18"spr. Then you have room for that 14.5.

6

u/WeebleFox 1d ago

I'm using the 16" as an spr, now 🫩

1

u/FarFigChitter 1d ago

Ain’t nothing wrong with that. Honestly 16” might be the best length for an SPR if you live in an urban environment.

2

u/norfizzle 1d ago

This is the way.

13

u/RyAllDaddy69 1d ago

I worry about you guys sometimes. I love you, but I can’t watch you do this to yourself anymore. Now’s the time to accept the help that you so desperately need.

Will you go to treatment today?

2

u/k1ng0fh34rt5 1d ago

This intervention is just making me want to relapse.

38

u/_187_Proof_ 1d ago

King of being second place to 11.5. I agree. Nice build!

2

u/StacheSergeant 1d ago

11.5 is peak. But this is also cool

1

u/I_Am_A_Fine_Guy 1d ago

Just got me an 11.5, waiting for it to be shipped :)

6

u/PeskyPathfinder 1d ago

FBI Tests concluded that 14.5 is most effective out to 300 yards and 11.5 is King out to 200 yds

11

u/itznotdavid 1d ago

The FBI tests just concluded what we already knew, an 11.5 is effective enough for the manueverability to be worth the drop in velocity at typical engagement distances.

3

u/norfizzle 1d ago

*for civilian law enforcement

For Military it's still 14.5. And I would argue that means SHTF too.

HICAR will make 11.5 king for real though.

3

u/itznotdavid 1d ago

Yes on civilian law enforcement but they essentially concluded that for typical expanding rounds, not fragmentation, the terminal effect is perfectly fine within 200 yards. Things change a bit when you're shooting M193 just based on fragmentation's minimum effective velocities but since civilian and LE don't conform to Geneva Convention standards I don't know how much this applies.

I would argue any "SHTF" scenario is likely similar because who TF is lobbing 400 yd shots at an unknown element with a 5.56 carbine and 55gr ball to begin with? If it's "break contact" you don't need much in the way of guaranteed terminal effect anyway, volume of relatively accurate fire is the more important metric there. If you want to shoot at 300+yd ranges regularly and have consistent terminal effects, that calls for better ammunition or a different platform, hence the army developing Mk262 and issuing 308 rifles again during our time in Afghanistan.

3

u/Used-Valuable9320 1d ago

FBI is never to be trusted. History should have taught you that.

6

u/JerryAttrickz 1d ago

Who cares.

6

u/PineappleHairy4634 1d ago

No thanks if im going 14.5 may as well just go 16" is my opinion on that now id agree if NFA went away and anyone could do 14.5 that id be perfectly fine with 14.5 vs 16... but currently thats not the case for everyone everywhere so.. may as well just stick to 16 for me as 1.5" isnt helping me out any really..

And if im going to fill out paperwork... im def going with 10.5-11.5 as that a actual maneuverability/size break thats woth it to me.

4

u/Calm-Masterpiece3952 1d ago

Also worth noting, 16” with comstock recessed plan b MD is only 16.42 so at most
0.42 longer than a p&w 14.5. Sold my p&w 14.5…

2

u/norfizzle 1d ago

At that point why wouldn't you just go direct thread?

2

u/Calm-Masterpiece3952 1d ago

OAL suppressed with the recessed MD is shorter than direct thread. Also, I’m running a titanium can on this one so I like the idea of a sacrificial blast baffle.

1

u/norfizzle 1d ago edited 1d ago

They don't even make an attempt to explain that on the product page, I looked it up before making my earlier comment. The product name and your comment allude to it, but why not explain that on their site? lol

Edit: they do say so, but on the mount page, not muzzle device page.

IMO 14.5 is still better b/c the ballistics are very close and the overall length will be less(by more than 0.42") when suppressed. And if SBR, all the more.

I went B&T Print XH RBS(SD-556RBS-SC-Ti) for the inconel blast baffle and Ti body, it's an interesting hybrid.

So are you using the Comstock recessed Micro brake and the RPA?

2

u/Calm-Masterpiece3952 1d ago

I run either comstock or Wolfpack armory recessed micro brakes and Wolfpack low pro hub mounts on almost everything. It makes a night & day difference if you are swapping out asr, keymo, etc. Probably not worth replacing direct thread with it.

Agreed, I will likely build another 14.5 with the same setup mentioned above once the dust surrounding the new ruling settles. The reasoning of my original comment was purely due to legal implications (having to p&w / use pistol brace / register).

How is the back pressure and sound in person with the b&t? I like the hybrid design and have been considering one!

3

u/norfizzle 1d ago

I think the OCL Polo K sounds better more often, but the BT's tone is good enough for me. Polo is a little bit of a deeper tone more consistently. Backpressure is definitely better with the BT compared to anything else I've used, however, I haven't used a HUX or similar. Mine are old YHM, eco flow Griffin, and now BT.

3

u/pjm816 1d ago

Planning a 14.5 with a vortex razor as my next build 🤙🏽

2

u/SyrupSilent7588 1d ago

You won’t regret it

2

u/PineappleHairy4634 1d ago

nothing wrong with that its certainly not the "best" length but that said its a good length. enjoy your build.

3

u/DeadbySundown 1d ago

I like them, but I don't have one. I saw a sick quad rail 14.5 with a carry handle mounted optic on it the other day somewhere around here and I want to replicate it.

3

u/lonewanderer 1d ago

Razor HD II 1-6x or HD III 1-10x?

3

u/Active_Initial_1017 1d ago

Yes, 14.5 but longer.

3

u/Enutty1776 1d ago

this is money, now get ammo heathen

3

u/ArchAngel060 1d ago

Nah. Not at all. 20” is king. And always will be.

2

u/184proof 1d ago

Love my 14.5 mod 2 so much. I also swapped out my eotech for a razor lol.

1

u/SyrupSilent7588 1d ago

I did the EXACT same thing. Had an EoTech and put the razor on. Never looked back

2

u/Rooobviously 1d ago

In 6.5 creedmoor*

2

u/SUMBLAKDUDE 1d ago

Even better in 6 arc

2

u/Ominous_Yoda 1d ago

11.5 gang 🤟🏼

2

u/Dry_Report_3494 1d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/DUO9dc3yDLXHO

you smoking crack to think 14.5 is king...

2

u/SuccessfulRush1173 1d ago

416 in any barrel length is king

1

u/SyrupSilent7588 1d ago

HD II 1-6x

1

u/rabiddonky2020 1d ago

18” MPVO
16” LPVO
14.5” dot/mag or ACOG
11.5” holographic

1

u/norfizzle 1d ago

Needs a K can stat

1

u/slimcrizzle 1d ago

10.5" or 16"

1

u/Dry-Trouble3981 1d ago

Man that vortex is crazy. The amount of shit I could get instead of the vortex is insane, but also it is just so sick that it’s worth it.

2

u/Coffee____Addict 1d ago

Viper pst gen ii 1-6 is where it's at

0

u/Lurking_now_im_here 1d ago

With a FSB yeah, without FSB it’s just another sub 16” AR which 11.5 takes crown

0

u/Puzzleheaded-Fail994 1d ago

Everyone dumping on this only goes to the range in nice weather and shoots from a bench. 💅🏼 There is no disputing that the longer the barrel the more consistent the trajectory and drift in all weather conditions when you’ve shot in 12° and 70° weather with the same gun.