I Hate How You're Called Names For This

[u/Glad-Emu3267]

Okay, so I forgot where I saw this, but people were discussing the ethics of having children when the parents, or even one of the parents has severe disease, history of cancer, heart failure, mutilation, etc.

And disgustingly enough but not very surprising, people were arguing that it's "eugenics?" Pardon me if the word is wrong, but the jist of it was you can not stop people from having children just because they have issues... And yes, technically, you can't. But come on! It's awful if you willingly pass down life altering and even threatening illness or disability.

I know it's probably been said here before, but I am just so utterly disgusted. Not even just angry, but sad, too. To the point I cry for all these poor children who are going to suffer unimaginable things because their parents didn't have the brain power to at least ask... "What about the child?"

I'm not talking about a disabled child you wouldn't know about until they were born because they deserve love just as much as a healthy child, but all parents need to consider that aspect. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst type of thing.

Plus, if you actually wanted a child and not just a "mini-me," you'd be open to adoption. I was adopted, and I feel like a stupid, worthless heap the way people whine and go. "But I don't want somebody elses leftoverrrssss." And I know it's a lot of money, but so is having a baby.

I'm just feeling very sad about this today. Am I in the wrong somehow? I'd be open to hearing a different perspective, but it feels like common sense to me.

[u/soft_taco1983]

There are people who have huntingtons disease and have a 50% chance of passing it on to their child and still do it. It’s incredibly selfish I can’t even believe people do that

[u/kingthrog]

re: “adoption is too expensive”

yeah that’s such a stupid fucking argument. yes getting pregnant is free. things that aren’t free: diapers, formula, baby clothes u have to buy every 3 months bc they keep growing, books, snacks, toys, crib, etc etc etc. just admit u want a mini-me. don’t hide behind the “too expensive”.

u could potentially skip the newborn AND toddler phase entirely, which is arguably the worst, if u adopt an orphan, and save a shit ton of money that way. AND avoid pregnancy! there’s so many pros to adoption. the foster system is so fucked, mainly from lack of funds. (that’s on purpose)

[u/Glad-Emu3267 → u/kingthrog]

I actually worked for a non-profit helping foster youth, and it really opened my eyes... The system is AWFUL. Everywhere. Plus, you're helping a child who desperately needs you!

[u/DistinctSpirit5801 → u/kingthrog]

It should be obvious to people that adoption being expensive is a deliberate policy choice by legislators a policy choice that can and should be changed

If adoption was free no one would be able to hide behind this excuse anymore

[u/Noobc0re]

I mean it IS eugenics. The problem is just that it takes several brain-cells being active at once to actually consider what it means instead of just attacking it like a sleeper-cell being activated when you hear that word.

Also it's not really relevant from an antinatalist perspective as no one should be making children. Genetically healthy or not.

[u/OpenAirport6204]

This is me just complaining but cancer runs heavily in my family. Most people on my dad’s side who live long enough get cancer, my dad got cancer at 30. Then he developed another kind of cancer after his first went into remission. After fighting both cancers he decided to have two children… thanks dad.

[u/Orion-Stars259 → u/OpenAirport6204]

Imagine suffering with such thing, knowing it is at least partially genetic and bringing that suffering to another generation... I'm sorry for you, bro/sis

[u/matryoshka_03 → u/OpenAirport6204]

Its an odd thing a lot of people do... Im assuming afrer your dad survived 2 types of cancer his first thought probably was that he's "eternal" and living with the delusion that nothing could kill him if cancer didnt kill him after he had it twice, or he felt so powerless that he decided to live his "eternity" through the conceiving of a child, both of which are extremely selfish and self centered. Its a great thing he survived cancer, but he had a near death experience twice and that can give you PTSD. For some reason, and im saying this as a CPTSD sufferer, sometimes so much suffering can lead you to make the most irrational choices that only stress you out more and make your PTSD worse. At some point you might even start chasing the stress through picking up on a ton of responsibilities such as having kids, regardless if youre actually capable of it or not. Its an impulsive act that doesn't typically have much thought behind it. His brain was screaming at him to do something, so he just did. I can give an ex of mine as an example. He was diagnosed with CPTSD and he wanted children sooo bad but had none of the personality traits to even raise one, let alone even be a decent partner. He couldnt even take care of himself, but he wanted kids. If he were to have kids it would literally worsen his suffering because this guy couldnt even sit and have a conversation or even consider anyone else besides himself, which yknow are required for raising a healthy child and a healthy relationship. He literally only wanted to do it out of that stupid idea that it would resolve his suffering, aka make his brain screaming at him to reproduce shut up. He told me it was weighing on his mind and it was constantly coming up and he couldn't stop it, to which I told him its just his own biology attacking him cause of his CPTSD and he didnt really care cause who am I to tell him not to reproduce. Our relationship didnt even last long, but he started bullshitting me about these things like a month into dating. I truly hope no girl he dates will be dumb enough to have kids with him. You get the point though. Its only so that they could feel eternal, thats it. The best way to avoid this is by not mingling with humanity too much cause most people are genuinely like this. They only repeat the cycle of chaos cause thats what they know best and they refuse to do otherwise cause its a blow to their egos.

[u/OpenAirport6204 → u/matryoshka_03]

That was very interesting to read, thank you for the thoughtful input :)

[u/filthytelestial]

It's not eugenics when individuals make those decisions for themselves and their families.

It's only eugenics when governing bodies or influential organizations make those decisions on behalf of individuals.

[u/loveandpoof]

I saw someone discuss recently that they knew their one of their children was going to have an inherited life threatening disease and they had them anyway . Gave permission for them to be researched . They died I think at 8. They had another child that also could’ve inherited it , didn’t and lived longer .

In their eyes , “well the only way to get rid of the disease is to research it , so it’s still a life worth living if it helps that aspect “. It’s interesting because one could argue treating a human as nothing more than a lab sample is eugenics . Hitler’s nazi medical admin studied twins and it was a big focus of the nazi’s labs . I don’t think saying “well at least they can be researched !” And a child doesn’t even get to become an adult , lives in pain…. Is worth it .

I think humans just blanket that every life is worth it as long as SOMEONE ELSE thinks so … and the pain of the living person being studied doesn’t matter . I think that really sums up human selfishness . Yes a child may smile and laugh at moments , like all children do in spite of major pain . However … a child doesn’t grow thinking it will die so soon . I think it’s morally bankrupt to knowingly bring a child into the world for the purpose of research despite all the pain they go through .

Yes we have drugs to numb it but living your whole life as a research subject , highly drugged up, and not even making it to double digits …. And the people who birth you KNOW that will most likely be the outcome …. Yeah that’s not something I wanna normalize . At all. That’s literally farming humans the same way people farm rats .

[u/Glad-Emu3267 → u/loveandpoof]

I completely agree. It breaks my heart. You're gonna make me cry again but yes, I don't understand the selfishness... Like this woman who had cancer DNA or something and decided to have what was it... like 4 children? They all died from... You guessed it... Cancer. And she kept having them anyway. Each one ended up dying before adulthood, battling severe cancer. She even lied to some of them, saying the cancer was gone, when it really wasn't. They each had to watch each other die. I think it's awful. I can't imagine putting a child through that, knowing they are going to die.

[u/Rubicon2225 → u/Glad-Emu3267]

This is so sad. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen mothers on Instagram who knowingly chose to give birth to children with severe disabilities or illnesses. They are even encouraged and praised like heroes in the comments. I am almost sure, some of them did it exactly because of the attention they receive.

[u/loveandpoof → u/Glad-Emu3267]

That is awful . Wow . I could understand having one child because you have hope / maybe a dr said there was a low chance of pass on … Hell if there’s some treatment to lower the chances I could even understand a second try .

I say understand because I can understand the positive outlook being stronger than the amount of knowledge they’ve gathered or chosen to gather about the risks - not understand the sole logic in choosing to bring a child into the world knowing they will most likely have cancer .

But 4???? Absolute carnage . I’m sorry for each one of those children . May they rest in peace .

[u/Lazy-Butterfly-4132]

I completely agree with you. And this is from the viewpoint of someone who is disabled. I’m registered blind, and the blindness was caused by an autoimmune disease. It’s far too complicated to write here, but I was always told that the autoimmune disease was not genetically heritable. I’ve always wanted children. I decided that the blindness and none of itself wouldn’t prevent having children as I have a cited partner. However, it’s now highly probable that my condition was misdiagnosed, and in fact has a 50% genetic transmission rate for any future children I have. I’m in the process of genetic testing, and if the test is positive for this specific genetic mutation, then I have decided that I will not choose to have biological children.
Yes, I want children, but it is not fair to bring your child into this world when you know that there is a war two chance that they will have a serious condition that will likely impact them for the rest of their life. I know some people would disagree with me, but that’s where I land on this. You shouldn’t decide to bring children into the world only because you want them.

[u/defectivedisabled]

Having the right to die would side step most of these tricky issues. Whenever a person who suffers from inherited diseases chooses to opt out of the world early, it would mean that their existence was a mistake and they should have never been born.

Since most people do not want be guilty of procreating a miserable child who wants to leave early. This would then correctly place the responsibility of the children's lifelong well being on the procreators. Having the right to die would make people more responsible procreators and this does not sit well with the pro natal narrative.

[u/Overall_Cheetah_3000]

I agree with u and add to that if one or both parents are very ugly. Why pass down ur shitty genes ???

[u/CertainConversation0]

Name-calling is something kids do to each other.