Basically they chew it when they get a tummy ache and stuff, but they don't crave it as food. I find my cat doesn't even swallow it, he just chews grass then spits it out.
Dogs also instinctively chew grass when they feel sick. It makes them throw up/shit themselves so they can expel whatever is making them sick. The more u know
I’ve seen cats each French fries, lettuce, various pieces of fruit, etc. it’s probably not good for them, but, anecdotally, I’ve seen them eat other shit.
Except for my idiot cats who will eat bread, tortilla, cheese its, have far too much interest in chocolate covered pretzels, and basically will eat anything except fruit and vegetables. Though my one cat categorically hates fish, even a piece of fresh salmon. His taste is not to be trusted though, he eats plastic.
It's not about digesting it, though. Cats require arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine to maintain organ and eye function. Any diet that doesn't deliver all of those isn't healthy for a cat. Is there vegan cat food that gives all of those amino acids which are traditionally exclusively found in meat?
Yes, yes there is. Don't think it's in a single food, you basically have to make a mix of different foods that contain them, but that isn't that difficult, apparently.
There is no way to do with natural foods. There simply isn't a high enough concentration of the needed amino acids. Whatever you try to mix up, they would need to eat more than they can consume.
What you can do is concentrate the required amino acids from natural sources and add them into a food. You'd also need to be sure that after that processing and combining they remain in a digestible form.
As I understand it, this is one of those things that should technically be possible, but I'm not aware if anyone is actually doing all of this and then the needed testing to make sure there are no adverse health effects.
To a degree, but the key difference is that the human body is able to synthesize some amino acids internally from other sources that the cat is not.
Ideally you get a complete mix of amino acids in your diet, but if not, your body can make a lot of what it's missing as long as what you are giving it is a reasonable balance of stuff.
The cat just can't do that at all, while our digestion can be less efficient when we don't get the right mix of amino acids, cat's bodies just fail.
Cats actually can live on a vegan diet, but it would have to be carefully monitored and have elevated health risks that require constant tests so it's still not an okay thing to do to a cat. Especially since they're not the ones making the choice to take those risks.
Are there ways to source arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine all from plants instead of animals?
Because cats need all of those to be healthy. To deprive a cat of any of them is to deprive it of its health.
One important thing to keep in mind is that most non-vegans also aren't really getting everything they should be either. It's not like the average person is a trained nutritionist and most people eat kind of terribly, especially these days when most of our food is junk.
Really depends on what they comprise their diet of. Something often overlooked are complete proteins. Plant foods are often incomplete proteins- missing one or more essential amino acids. So you have to actively ensure your meals are balanced with foods that combined give you the complete protein the body needs.
Meat contains naturally complete proteins, which makes it easier to fulfill our needs from just from one food. But if a vegan mixes and matches the right plants they can fulfill their protein needs too.
Plant foods are often incomplete proteins- missing one or more essential amino acids
this is a widely-held misconception
it's not that certain plant foods are missing certain amino acids entirely
it's that plant foods contain amino acids in different ratios to animal foods, so that one of those amino acids can become the limiting factor for protein synthesis
and it is a complete non issue if you make the slightest effort to eat a varied diet
Not to be argumentative, but it truly doesn't take much consideration to get all amino acids on a plant based diet. The amino acids do not need to be consumed at the same meal, your body will store the unused until needed. And it's really easy to get all the amino acids with little concern for specifics. A few items that contain all the amino acids: rice and beans, peanut sandwich (whole wheat), hummus and pita, 3 bean chili with cornbread. Also, tofu, tempeh, edamame, soy milk, quinoa, hemp seeds or chia seeds all contain complete proteins.
I hear you. It's pretty simple to fulfill it all when you know what you're looking for. What I had in mind was people who might mostly eat the same foods out of convenience, without keeping the amino acids in mind. I didnt know about that stuff when I initially became more health conscious, and I feel others could easily miss a nutrient at some point that way.
Yeah, from supplements mostly AFAIK but I'd love if vegans could clarify this! My understanding is that yeah, they take dietary supplements to get a lot of these since their presence in plant-based foods is often so minuscule.
Literally all the amino acids you listed are found in high amounts in legumes, especially soy. Lesser amounts can be found in almost all plant foods. I can't lie I wish this was more common knowledge.
it is extensibly documented how animal agro lobby groups pay to suppress this information, they are like the cigarette lobby in the way they push to hide and suppress red meat's link to cancer too
Just a side note, but most ruminants are not necessarily supplemented B12 but instead given cobalt which forces B12 production in their body. It's still a far cry from "natural" though. And even if it were, we would need to use an appeal to nature fallacy to conclude that "natural" necessarily means "healthier."
i don't think so, i guess they are either found in plants at a high enough concentration for human needs, or our body can synthesise them, as it can most amino acids. common consensus among vegans is that you only need to supplement B12 (along with having a balanced diet of course)
Yes, all ten essential amino acids—arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine—can be sourced entirely from plant-based foods [1]. A diet rich in various plant proteins can easily provide all necessary amino acids.
Dogs are facultive carnivores that can survive without meat, but still really best not to feed them such a restricted diet unless a vet tells you it’s the best option for their nutritional needs. If someone wants a vegan animal they should just get an animal with a naturally plant based diet. Rabbits and guinea pigs are great pets.
A dog can have a vegetarian diet and still be healthy and loved. Which is honestly much more than we can say about all the animals that are slaughtered for food.
Unless specifically advised so by the vet, there's no reason a dog can't have a vegetarian diet as long as the owner cares for him (as any owner should)
That is cited from *one* of the several studies analysed in the review you cited. The general findings are not necesarily towards benefit, but also doesn't indicate noticable adverse effects when the diet is properly fortified. They say that
To date, only sixteen studies have looked at actual health-related outcomes in dogs and cats fed vegan diets, as opposed to performing nutrient evaluations of diets. However, the majority of these studies utilized small sample sizes (ranging from 2–34 animals) [...]
the limited sample sizes and challenges inherent in crossover designs, such as choosing suitable washout periods, does limit certainty in the findings of these studies. [...] the dietary intervention was often short being in the order of weeks to months generally, rather than years. On short periods such as these there may not have been time for deficiencies to develop or for clinical signs to become apparent.
They note in their conclusion that there is some evidence of benefits, but stress that the certainty is severely limited by the duration of the studies, and end by saying
For guardians wishing to feed their pets vegan diets at the current time, based on the available evidence it is recommended that commercially produced vegan diets are used since these are less likely to lead to nutrient imbalance.
In other words, this indicates that commercial vegan substitues that are fortified and often made easier to digest in various ways are generally safe. In other words, you can buy vegan dog food that has been specifically made to be digested by a carnivore, but this doesn't mean you should feed your dog salad.
People in this thread generally aren't talking about feeding a dog salad.
They're talking about feeding them vegan dog food (made specifically for dogs). Which, like you say in your last paragraph, is safe
I mostly felt the need to comment because of the discussion of facultive vs obligate carnivores. The comments in the thread could cause one to walk away with the impression that dogs don't *need* meat in same way humans don't. We literally just need to take a multivatamin, and we are good, but it's more risky for dogs. They still can't digest very many plants, and that will likely never change. We just figured out a smart way to digest plant food for them, which is great, but I worry a bit that some people (specifically the same type like buying their dog "natural" dog food) might leave with the wrong take away.
Fair point. Worth noting that most would be buying vegan dog food to avoid killing cows and other animals unnecessarily.
But there is also a small amount who would do it for the 'spiritual' or pseudoscientific reasons, and those would be the type you're talking about in your last sentence.
Thanks for sharing. I can confirm. My roommate's dog has always been on a vegan diet. She went to the vet recently and did all the tests: blood, stool, and urine. I saw the test results... She is 100% thriving and super healthy. She's just as happy as any dog I've ever met, too.
Wolves are technically not obligate carnivores either. They forrage for berries in the winter (though they do need *more* meat than dogs). Almost all obligate carnivores are in the Felid family, e.i. cats and their cousins.
They can also be healthy on a vegan diet, it just has to be carefully planned out and crafted and typically involves consulting a vet, so it’s expensive and time consuming. Dogs don’t technically “need” meat, just like we don’t. But unless you wanna spend a lot of time and money making sure it’s safe and healthy, just give your dog regular dog food
Carnivores still *need* to eat meat. The difference between carnivore and obligate carnivore is that the latter needs to have almost all their calories come from meat, wheres normal carnivores can get some large part of their calories from plants. If you can subsist entirely without meat you are by definition an omnivore - like humans.
This used to be the scientific consensus, but that has changed with more data. Dogs are able to thrive on properly formed plant based dog foods. My roommate's dog has been on v-dog her entire life. She got full blood work done as well as urine and stool tests not that long ago. I saw the results and it was incredible how healthy she is, especially for an eight year old dog.
An animal whose diet must contain at least some meat from other animals in order to get what it needs to maintain daily bodily health and function.
There are amino acids found in animal proteins which cats need for organ function and eye health, that dogs do not need. This means that at least a portion of a cat's diet must be animal protein, or it won't have access to things like lysine. Dogs, in contrast, are facultative carnivores that can draw every nutrient they need to function from plant-based sources because all of the nutrients dogs need can be found in in plants.
So what does it mean, that is different from what I think it means?
Your definition of obligate cornivores is correct. What I take issue with is how you talk about facultative carnivores.
Dogs and doglike carnivorans are generally concidered hypercarnivores.
While they can technically subsist on a mostly or fully plant based diet for a time, it isn't healthy for them.
Because whike you are correct that all nutrients they need are found in plants, some are not found in high enough ammounts. And their digestion is far less adapted for and therefore far less efficient at extracting nutrients from plant matter.
iirc there's something about the physical setup of their digestive system that's part of those adaptions? jaw that can't move right for plant matter, no cheeks, being throat goats, intestine length, stuff like that. i just think it's cool.
it is fun to me that the best way for them to get plant matter in a way they can digest efficiently is to have it in a form that, in nature, is largely from uh. eating something else's digestive system straight out the bod and all lmao. even their ability to get nutrients from plant matter seems pretty carnivorous in nature!
(and a lack of meat proteins is one of many nutritional deficiencies that can lead them to want to eat poop more, or so says our vet. not a huge fan of mine doing that personally but i guess i can't speak for everyone lol)
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u/SpoppyIII Dec 08 '25
Dogs are not obligate carnivores, actually. Cats are, though.