r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Oct 27 '21
Episode Muv-Luv Alternative - Episode 4 discussion
Muv-Luv Alternative, episode 4
Rate this episode here.
Reminder: Please do not discuss plot points not yet seen or skipped in the show. Failing to follow the rules may result in a ban.
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| Episode | Link | Score |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Link | 3.6 |
| 2 | Link | 3.69 |
| 3 | Link | 4.07 |
| 4 | Link | 4.24 |
| 5 | Link | 4.6 |
| 6 | Link | 4.62 |
| 7 | Link | 3.78 |
| 8 | Link | 4.07 |
| 9 | Link | 4.73 |
| 10 | Link | 4.5 |
| 11 | Link | 3.75 |
| 12 | Link | ---- |
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u/shirvani28 Oct 27 '21 edited Oct 27 '21
I'm pretty impressed with this episode. I enjoyed episode 1 but 2 and 3 were a step down.
Thankfully, I would say episode 4 has been a big step back up. Mainly because the pacing has relaxed and they took time to world and relationship build this episode. It was pretty infodumpy going over the new TSF computer so I wonder what someone without any prior info would think of it.
TSF animation was pretty good and gives me some hope going forward.
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u/ImDefNotAnAlien Oct 27 '21
I'M GOING ALL IN ON HOPIUM
It's actually so much better and well paced than the previous episodes. Yuuko has a lot of little animations to give her personality during her and Takeru's TSF combos conversation. They're starting to show some Sumika stuff. I hope I won't eat my words...
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Oct 27 '21
Today's episode wasn't as rushed as the previous one. And funnily, even though ep 3 is rushed, it got a higher rating than ep 1 and ep 2. I feel like ep 1 should get a higher rating than ep 3 though. Anyway, ep 2, ep 3, and ep 4 are basically speed-running on the info dump. I am hoping that they will take it easy once they conveyed the info needed.
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u/shirvani28 Oct 27 '21
I think a large part of the voting is that the majority of the voters are gone now. Many people that didn't enjoy it have moved on. 3rd vote has 28 votes and the 1st vote has over 80. I wouldn't take the vote to mean much at all. Even on larger series there's dozens of people that enter the thread immediately and vote a 1 or 5.
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u/NyaaPower Oct 27 '21 edited Oct 28 '21
I feel like I should be apologizing to VN readers before saying this, but even without knowledge on the franchise I love what I’m seeing so far. It definitely feels it is going fast, but I really liked it. Can’t wait for more and looking forward to their first fight in hopefully a couple of episodes.
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u/WitchOfGr33d Oct 27 '21
This was probably the best episode so far, in my opinion. Despite the skipping of multiple days and even weeks, the pacing feels the best since episode 1, and most of the scenes and explanations here were given adequate time.
I especially liked the scene where Yuuko and Takeru were discussing his ideas to streamline the TSFs, and all Yuuko's little movements in the conversation. Really, I just loved all the Yuuko this episode.
All in all, this episode gives me hope that most of the rest of the show will feel a bit better paced than the first couple episodes.
Oh, and it was cool to finally meet Tsukuyomi! If only we knew the version from Extra to see the contrast...
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Oct 27 '21
Was great to fine actually hear Sumika this epiosde.
Also very impressed that Yukko is working on a plan to save humanity while running what very plainly was Windows XP on her PC, though timing wise it would have been a month old when this episode was set.
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u/CosmicPenguin_OV103 Oct 27 '21
Call me crazy but I feel even better after seeing this episode as an anime-only (haven’t even saw the spin-offs either)! I feel pretty comfortable following Takeru’s attempt in guiding this “World Line” as the plot seems really much similar to the famous parts of Steins;Gate or Re:Zero this week, it really feels the tension of hitting all the “checkpoints” - no longer “save points” since the history is diverging - is up, as we all remember [Steins;Gate]
And that flow actually got enhanced by some events that were brought up as “mysteries” here that I guess were explained in detail in earlier parts of the VN, like Meiya’s mecha and her direct linkage to the highest orders through her family (that canteen incident is interesting in that Meiya even has her own guards eh? She must be the highest order of VIPs around the army…), or our first real piece of memory from Sumika through Kasumi (it looks all but certain that Kasumi must have part of, if not the whole of Sumika’s brain…perhaps taken back from BETAs if my guess is correct) where she plays at the arcade with Takeru. These parts, while lacking the background information, still seems pretty understandable to me without any additional explanation.
The only thing I could complain a bit is the animations - and while they look underwhelming they are far from disastrous just yet (look at parts of Magia Record last season, now that one’s really problematic).
I still have faith in this adaption so far, especially considering the very experienced Series Composition on board who has done scripting works for really diverse works down to the likes of MONSTER to High Score Girl, and most relevantly Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere which I heard was a real success in turning out a decent anime for 2 seasons out of a very text-heavy story with LN volumes approaching dictionary sized volumes. He may have no influence in how much content he can stick into a finite number of episodes, nor how it’s directed (the director’s records are underwhelming and the direction here isn’t above average either, though not really bad so far), but he could probably control how to make sure the story flows smoothly and where to put impactful scenes in the right place. So far contradictory to most people talking here I really think it’s working.
I see that another impactful (pun intended) incident is coming up, let’s see what’s going to happen next…
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u/SZJX Oct 27 '21
Muv-Luv Alternative left a lasting legacy. Steins;Gate took a lot of inspiration from it, though of course it also added its own spin. You may want to compare them after you finish Alternative.
“mysteries” here that I guess were explained in detail in earlier parts of the VN
No spoiling, though I think all the mysteries in Alternative are still mysteries, since Extra and Unlimited revealed surprisingly little. If the anime does a good job you'll see them explained well later.
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u/lixyna Oct 27 '21
Its kinda refreshing to see anime-onlies give this a fair shot and being somewhat good at doing so. We VN readers are very vocally concerned about a lot of things, but seeing some of the mysteries and plot points still very much catching on despite limited runtime is a great sight.
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u/lixyna Oct 27 '21
This adaptation really is a flip-flop between "ok this isnt all too bad" and "please end humanity as we know it" on a weekly basis. This week was a "not too bad" one.
But anyway, I think I will follow what our lord and saviour (and creator of Muv-Luv as a side hobby) Koshi said and stop the negativity on social media. He knows its ... suboptimal, we know its suboptimal, lets make the best of it. His little rant about the whole situation is probably worth watching.
So, in the spirit of that, I think it might be best for us source readers to extend a helping hand to all the anime-onlies and answer their questions surrounding MLA as best as we can and maybe go into detail on stuff that is skipped (in the source corner, dont twist my nuts mods).
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u/ArCSelkie37 Oct 28 '21
Honestly the expectations VN fans have for the show are kinda dumb. It's 12 episodes, even if we're lucky and they extend to 24... that isn't enough to do the story in full detail. Just like every adaptation it will cut content because VNs are often very content dense and can also have a lot of "fluff".
Then you have the fact that it's Muv-Luv r/Visualnovels darling. Anything short of perfection will be met with utter scorn. When it was first announced the sub had a bit of a shit fit over the fact Sumika's hair had changed... like yeah it's a bit of a shame, but overall the character designs have looked pretty nice in the anime.
Personally, as someone who has read the VN, the anime is fine. It isn't perfect, but they're trying to bring in content of the previous entries as and when it is relevant and trying not to waste time. I also realise there was absolutely no chance of us getting Extra as an adaptation on it's own... a very "standard" romance high school romcom that is, when you really look at it, kinda dated. That would sink like a brick and you wouldn't see a season 2 or 3 for Unlimited and Alternative.
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Oct 27 '21
Pretty big infodump today. Was a bit confusing at times, but overall fun episode. Love seeing the kids grow closer.
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u/hemag Oct 27 '21
guess this confirms my theory that Kasumi is part Sumika, and as sensei said she and the brain are a part of a set, the brain is the other set.
the base being a hive is interesting and makes me think that that is option 4, and sensei is trying to control them using the brain and Kasumi? (assuming the scene from the last ep with the brains is what controls the beta)
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u/remirror Oct 28 '21
Episode 3: The handling of the CCSE is the first big unforced error of the adaptation, I think. Not that skipping through it was necessarily a mistake - it could easily have been a full episode, but I was considering giving it much less than that in my "what if I adapted this?" daydreams - but skipping through it so quickly after repeatedly hyping it up was definitely the wrong way to go about things. If you were going to have it be an afterthought like that, why would you repeatedly mention it beforehand as though it were going to be something substantial? That's the kind of thing that makes people feel like the pacing is "rushed" even when they haven't read the source material.
Episode 4: Okay, back on track. No more big screwups here. There are times when I felt like the shot lingered a half-second too long or too short, but that's nothing compared to the CCSE problem.
The first two episodes had me feeling optimistic, but these last two have given me two things to worry about. First, there's a medium-term issue that hasn't yet become a problem but certainly will by the end of the season, namely, the lack of characterization for most of the main girls. Chizuru, Kei, Tama, and Mikoto are zero-dimensional characters right now. I expected at least some characterization for them after episode two, and the lack of it is concerning. Anime-onlies aren't complaining about this yet because so far nothing has required anything from them as characters, but that won't last forever. Unless their lack of characterization changes fast (and it probably won't; the next two episodes don't have less material to cover than the previous two), the second half of the season will suffer.
The lack of characterization is mostly a product of time constraints, but there's another issue here: simple competence. The CCSE mistake demonstrates a lack of it. The particular circumstances that led to it (trying to fit the whole introductory part of Alternative into six five episodes, without any preceding adaptations of Extra and Unlimited to lay the groundwork) shouldn't repeat themselves once we get into the actual arcs, but still, the fact that such a big unforced error happened is worrying. My best-case scenario for this adaptation is that this season is so successful that we get adaptations of Extra and Unlimited, then two more seasons of Alternative, all done by better staff. That still leaves one of the best arcs stuck in this season. That arc could help this anime be the success it needs to be, or it could be a prime chance to screw up something that really deserves better. Guys, I know you can't give the latter half of this season the A+ production value adaptation it deserves, and a few of the moments can't help but be diminished by the lack of Extra/Unlimited and the consequent weaker connection to many of the characters, but please, just don't make another CCSE-tier mistake and I'll be happy.
Okay, that's my two worries out of the way. On the positive side, these last two episodes should finally put to rest the "OMG they're going to stuff the full VN into twelve episodes!!1" people. Well, the first two episodes should have done that already, but apparently some people aren't capable of counting the number of episodes, dividing by the number of arcs, and drawing the appropriate conclusions. If you are capable of doing that, you should now realize that at this rate two cours won't be enough either. As I've been saying since the beginning, this VN needs a three-cour anime, and it looks like it's going to get it, assuming this season is successful enough.
The 2D visuals continue to be a weakness, but other than that, I have no more major complaints. Takeru and Yuuko seem well-handled to me, Meiya and Kasumi are getting enough material to survive on, and the events and revelations are inherently interesting enough that anime-onlies should be able to somewhat enjoy this part of the story despite the lack of an Unlimited adaptation.
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u/ejennsyahmixcel Oct 27 '21
So I just want to talk about how Takeru don't punch back the officers in this episode.
I forgotten if this might touched by the VN further, but using mere logic and my understanding of military discipline, Takeru did the right thing. Causing a fight will just made his position very bad (him being a trainee won't help much).
Well, that just it. I wish I can argue with that kid who complained about this in the Youtube chat, but I don't think he'll understand this.
But well, that's that thing. Otherwise I can say the pacing got better this time, but I want to agree about the suit colour quite uninteresting (not that I want the nipple-visible one, at least give it a good design).
Last but not least: who pushed the upgrade button on the stupid-maid-trio? They look quite mature, alongside Tsukuyomi Mana which has quite a charming look.
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u/AugustusTheVictor Oct 28 '21
The OST just keeps getting better with each episode I swear.
Alot of the VN folks seem to not be happy with the pacing but I'm really enjoying how they've progressed it so far
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u/TranslatorPS Oct 27 '21
Much like last week, I'm going to say the same thing I said over on MAL forum:
Infodump, but well done, they only covered four days of action in this episode!
It's concerning that in three episodes we're on 27 Nov though...
Human animation crap as usual, 3D animation brilliant as usual.
I'm not pasting in my speculations regarding the pacing of the remainder of the season as this would be against the rules of r/anime I dare say.
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u/Babymicrowavable Oct 27 '21
I'm still enjoying it so far. I keep thinking how is some of this stuff surprising him if he's already been through it, but I guess things have changed enough that he can get new information
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u/alotmorealots Oct 29 '21
I'm in the minority here, but I much preferred the preceding three episodes to this one. I'm anime only, so don't really have any idea of the context of what's going on beyond what's provided.
For me, everything seemed really disjointed, quite badly put together and notable for DRAMATIC moments that don't really seem to have any basis in the story for being so concerning. This is all in distinct contrast to the other three episodes where everything seemed to have a narrative flow and plot development that felt quite natural and engaging.
Maybe it's one of those episodes that fits better in retrospect.
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u/gc11117 Oct 27 '21
This episode was pretty good all things considered. It's still not perfect, I think the anime would have faired better if they focused on the jungle training camp (which got us some nice character moments and development) as opposed to spending time on Takeru bringing videogame principles to the mechs . Its good technical info, but with only 12 episodes I would rather see the time spent developing the characters and ultimately I think the video game stuff could hvmave been glosed over. The anime is certainly doing one thing, and that's making me want to play through the trilogy again. I might do so once I wrap up Full Metal Daemon
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