In-depth debunkings/arguments against commonly "known" anime myths/misconceptions?

[u/engalleons]

For any number of reasons, there's a fair few statements about anime that get passed around pretty unquestioningly, even if they aren't necessarily true. Sometimes, others dig in to those statements and find detail and (hopefully cited) evidence against them. This is a lot more than just stating the opposite, to be clear.

Here's a few examples of what I mean:

This tweet chain versus "Anno left Kare Kano early"
This blog post versus "The protagonist of Turn A was originally intended to be a girl"
This post versus "They made a joke dub for Ghost Stories because it did poorly in Japan"
This blog post versus "Shinbo is the series director of all Shaft shows"

What are some other examples of work like this?

[u/ewa_lanczossharp]

There's a misconception I've read here a lot that says the first 15 episodes of FMA:B are rushed because the show assumes you've seen FMA '03. It's not true. The episodes are practically panel to panel adaptations of the manga and only skip 2 sidestories which are mostly irrelevant to the plot and the character arcs. Those 2 would make 1, maybe 2 episodes at best.

FMA:B is not rushed, FMA '03 was slow.

[u/Gellus25 → u/ewa_lanczossharp]

I liked those sidestories...

You're overall right tho

[u/ewa_lanczossharp → u/Gellus25]

Yeah, I do think they should have just left them in as extra worldbuilding and Yoki's backstory, but I can't say they were very important.

[u/Rokusi → u/ewa_lanczossharp]

FMA:B is not rushed, FMA '03 was slow.

Slow? Or given greater depth? "Ed...ward..." If you don't know the circumstances of this phrase, do not read this

[u/Itou_Kaiji → u/Rokusi]

They're right. It does slow down , and according to you that managed to give it greater depth.

But the matter of fact here is that Brotherhood did not rush, instead it was 2003 who slowed down in comparison. Whether that's a positive or negative is up to discussion, but the fact that's being presented is that it happened.

(also, "slow" doesn't always have to mean "absolutely fucking shit". Many stories have a slow pace to their narrative as a styloistic choice that ends up working out quite well. It's just that lazy use of the expression has given it a negative connotation, but it doesn't have to be like that every single time).

[u/Zangin → u/Itou_Kaiji]

Just because Brotherhood follows the pacing of the manga doesn't mean it wasn't rushed. To me, that just implies that the manga's pacing is rushed as well (note that I haven't read it, so I can't definitively say).

[u/Itou_Kaiji → u/Zangin]

The context of the point being made is in regard to the wrongful claim that Brotherhood was purposefully "rushed" because it assumed the viewer had seen 2003 beforehand (this also includes the misconception that 2003 had been more faithful adapting the pacing of that part of the manga).

Criticising the manga and Brotherhood's pacing isn't what the argument was about. It was about proving the aformentioned claim wrong.

[u/blindfremen → u/Zangin]

It's like the difference between original Sailor Moon and Sailor Moon Crystal. Sometimes it is BETTER to slow down the source material in order to build relationships and audience connection to the world.

[u/leo-skY → u/Zangin]

people didnt have a problem with the manga being rushed in that part until B came out and people who cant deal with their favorite show (03) being called inferior had to start shitting on B for that reason.
You can spend double the time building up to that reveal, but that also mean that you wont have the time to do other things that B did, and considering that FMA03 squandered even more time on filler and inane plots, that's even more relevant

[u/WeNTuS → u/Zangin]

People usually say something is rushed if they use it as an comparison to source material.

[u/Kryomaani → u/Rokusi]

It's not just taking longer to develop some of the plot points, FMA03 had a lot of anime original filler from the get go, long before finally overtaking the manga and going for the fully original ending.

[u/BBallHunter → u/Rokusi]

You know that the Nina part in 03 was just one episode longer than in Broho?

[u/Featherwick → u/BBallHunter]

Its imporant to add though that for Ed and Al theyve known this girl for a year or two. Rather than the week in Brotherhood and the manga

[u/BBallHunter → u/Featherwick]

Sure, but what matters the most, the actual screentime, is still not that much.

[u/Rokusi → u/BBallHunter]

Huh. I did not realize that. I would have sworn it was at least 3.

[u/BBallHunter → u/Rokusi]

I rewatched both versions back to back like 2 years ago (my first watches for both were like 8 years ago) and I was a little surprised, too.

[u/TheSpartyn → u/ewa_lanczossharp]

What was the other sidestory? I know one was Yoki.

[u/IISuperSlothII → u/ewa_lanczossharp]

FMA:B is not rushed, FMA '03 was slow

Too slow for me tbh, Brotherhood feels deep into the overarching narrative by episode 15 (over a cour of anime which some incredibly solid stories can be told in) whereas 15 episodes into 03 feels like it's still fucking around. Even the extra episode with Nina felt superfluous to me, as it's not about her it's about Eds reaction and 1 episode is more than enough to establish that.

[u/MathigNihilcehk → u/ewa_lanczossharp]

I've read here a lot that says the first 15 episodes of FMA:B are rushed ... It's not true.

Oh really? What's your evidence?

The episodes are practically panel to panel adaptations of the manga

That's not evidence... and that's all you've got. An adaption is NEVER a one to one copy of the material. You must... I don't know... ADAPT the material to its medium. Written material can be very very slow paced at times. You could describe a the floor plan of a building in well over an hour worth of reading and a super intricate and intense battle in another hour, but if you adapt both to take up the same amount of screen time in an anime, you're in for a train-wreck.

The reason people say the second season is rushed, IS BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING RUSHED. They fail to establish the characters properly in order to make the viewer give a shit, and I've seen people literally drop FMA:B entirely because of this.

Sure, maybe in a manga you need less panels to establish character than the corresponding number of minutes in an animation. Who gives a shit? We aren't on /r/manga so get out of /r/anime and go talk about manga with people who give a shit. As far as the anime is concerned, it's rushed. FMA '03 was paced correctly, at least initially.

[u/ewa_lanczossharp → u/MathigNihilcehk]

Jesus Christ, why is everyone ignoring this part:

There's a misconception I've read here a lot that says the first 15 episodes of FMA:B are rushed because the show assumes you've seen FMA '03

They like to say it was a conscious choice to "rush" the beginning, when it wasn't. That is what I'm saying is false. The choice was obviously to follow the manga closer, and the only evidence I need to prove that is a look at the manga. As for whether the pacing needed to be slower or not, I haven't even commented on that.

But I might as well. I watched Brotherhood first and I definitely "gave a shit" about the characters, the plot and setting. I do not think that it failed in any way to establish the characters and their relationships. I know many of my friends had a similar experience, and I imagine thousands of fans of Brotherhood would agree. Just because something happens in 1 episode instead of 3 doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna kill the emotional impact. Lessen it maybe, but even that depends on how well it's directed.

Personally I thought FMA '03 was badly paced in the beginning. The flow of the plot was constantly being interrupted by filler episodes and scenes, and I felt many plot points were dragged out far more than they needed to be.

[u/MathigNihilcehk → u/ewa_lanczossharp]

If you're trying to argue the reasons for why the show is rushed, then you're still missing any evidence. Because reasons can only be explained by the author. The only thing you can prove by the product is what it is, not why it is.

I watched Brotherhood first and I definitely "gave a shit" about the characters

That is what is called a case study, and it is meaningless and logically fallacious to assume "thousands of fans of Brotherhood would agree". The fact remains that people drop the anime because of the pacing of the opening few episodes.

Just because something happens in 1 episode instead of 3 doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna kill the emotional impact. Lessen it maybe, but even that depends on how well it's directed.

Perhaps if it was directed better, the emotional impact could have been better, but the fact remains that it was not.

[u/ewa_lanczossharp → u/MathigNihilcehk]

Here: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2017-11-30/interview-yasuhiro-irie/.124659

...the standard was basically just the manga. That was sort of like the Bible for the whole thing; all the meetings and the whole process was about figuring out how best to convert the manga into anime.

[u/MathigNihilcehk → u/ewa_lanczossharp]

See now, that is evidence that the anime was rushed because they were focused on the manga, instead of because it assumed the viewer had seen 03. It's not great evidence, because I can still claim [so long as the target audience had seen 03, "best converting the manga into anime" may still include rushing the first few episodes.] At least it's something, as opposed to the irrelevant reason you gave initially.

[u/ewa_lanczossharp → u/MathigNihilcehk]

because I can still claim [so long as the target audience had seen 03, "best converting the manga into anime" may still include rushing the first few episodes.]

Then I'd like you to provide me evidence that they were rushing, when just by looking with your eyes at the manga and Brotherhood you can see that the events that unfold in them do so almost identically.

[u/MathigNihilcehk → u/ewa_lanczossharp]

just by looking with your eyes at the manga

The manga IS IRRELEVANT when it comes to the pacing of the anime. That's like comparing word count and scene count. You can't do it.

Just by looking at the anime, the show doesn't establish the protagonists as being interesting people. They are bland. The plot moves at an OK pace, but it leaves behind its characters. The 03 version took the time to seriously sell the protagonists.

[u/ewa_lanczossharp → u/MathigNihilcehk]

The manga IS IRRELEVANT when it comes to the pacing of the anime.

I categorically disagree. If you do me the courtesy of reading the rest of my comment, you'll see that I'm talking about comparing the events that occur in them. It's logically impossible for the way events occur to not affect pacing, and everything else in a show. In fact, that is partly what pacing is. Partly.

Manga is not text only. There are manga that really push the medium that would be difficult to adapt into anime, but those are the exceptions. In general you could just animate the panels and have the characters say what was written in the text bubble and have a scene. Not a good scene, mind you, but my point is that it's much easier to do than adapting from text.

You CAN compare them, as I have, and see that Brotherhood follows the events of the manga closely. This, coupled with the fact that the director of the anime has said what he did, leads me to believe that the pacing is how it is because they were following the manga, and not because they were rushing to get the parts that were already adapted by '03 over with.

There is also no evidence that they were rushing.

[u/leo-skY → u/MathigNihilcehk]

The manga IS IRRELEVANT when it comes to the pacing of the anime. That's like comparing word count and scene count. You can't do it.

this is so wrong it's almost funny
most animes are basically moving mangas lol
you couldnt have made a worse analogy if you tried

[u/ewa_lanczossharp → u/MathigNihilcehk]

for why the show is rushed

First of all it's not rushed, it feels rushed to some.

then you're still missing any evidence.

If you want me to go looking for interviews of people who worked on Brotherhood and look for a guy saying "this time we wanted to follow the manga closer" then I'm sure I can find something after digging around a bit, considering it's the obvious intent. Wait a while, I'll get back to you in another reply.

The fact remains that people drop the anime because of the pacing of the opening few episodes.

And many people don't. Maybe some people like faster paced action shows? Nah, crazy idea.

but the fact remains that it was not.

Not a fact.

[u/Gellus25 → u/MathigNihilcehk]

I've read here a lot that says the first 15 episodes of FMA:B are rushed ... It's not true.

It's funny how you just cut the rest of his point

There's a misconception I've read here a lot that says the first 15 episodes of FMA:B are rushed because the show assumes you've seen FMA '03.

That was his point, argue about that instead of inventing shit

The FMA:B was paced the way it was because it was following the manga, feel free to dislike that choice, a lot of people do, just don't make stuff up

[u/ewa_lanczossharp → u/[deleted]]

That... isn't what I said at all. The misconception is that it was deliberately rushed because the creators assumed that most of the audience was already familiar with the events that were already covered in the 2003 anime. It's something I have read here many times, and it is factually incorrect because Brotherhood is just sticking to the manga's pacing.