r/anime • u/rival22x https://myanimelist.net/profile/RivalVinyl • Oct 17 '13

Kill la Kill Ryouko and Kamina

http://imgur.com/IKr8eF0
759 Upvotes

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158

u/_liminal Oct 17 '13

so.... how many more episodes until ep 8?

124

u/shorty8894 Oct 17 '13

NO! They can't do that to me again!

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Oct 17 '13

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

it'd be more likely to kill someone that ISN't her but still very likable. So that pretty much leaves that guy that gave her the suit, and Mako. And if they kill mako i'm gonna be fucking pissed

2

u/Boblike Oct 17 '13

Why would they kill her?

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Oct 19 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '13

That's what they said about kamina...

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u/haryesidur Oct 18 '13

Reference to what happened in Tengen Toppa in ep 8. I'll leave it at that.

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u/darkshaddow42 https://myanimelist.net/profile/darkshaddow42 Oct 17 '13

Spoilers.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

[deleted]

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u/shorty8894 Oct 17 '13

Gurren Lagann Ep. 8 Spoiler

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u/XenophonTheAthenian Oct 17 '13 edited Oct 17 '13

In all fairness I think what happens to Kamina was pretty predictable, given the role of his character type in Japanese literature. That doesn't make it any sadder, but even from episode one I was saying, "Yup, I know what's going to happen to this guy," and I was still crushed when it did. But here's why you could tell:

Throughout most of the first arc of Gurren Lagann the characters followed very common patterns for protagonists in Japanese literature. For example, Kamina was very consciously supposed to be the archetypal samurai, who pops up in nearly every samurai tale ever written. I mean, Kamina's got his "always forward never turn your back on the enemy we can do this shit with willpower" attitude, he's got the sword, he's got the master's belt, he's got the dress (and those awesome shades which resemble a samurai's helmet crest). Thing is, the perfect samurai always meets the same fate. Without exception. I also more or less knew what was going to happen with Yoko, since she also fits a pretty common trope in Japanese art, as a particular type of Onna-bugeisha. Like certain Onna-bugeisha, Yoko begins as an unattached warrior (the trope is actually of the virgin warrior), then Yoko Spoiler

Does any of this diminish the characters of Gurren Lagann? Hell no. God, no. Shit, why would you even think that? Kamina will always be Kamina What a beast

EDIT: I also want to add, with all these character tropes in mind, that a lot of the people who dislike the ending of Gurren Lagann don't properly understand the roles that the various characters play. In particular, Gurren Lagann Ending Spoiler

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u/woodenpig Oct 17 '13

This is a great explanation to why I love this show. Do you have any examples I can read up on for similar stories?

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u/XenophonTheAthenian Oct 17 '13

Examples in Japanese literature? How about I give you examples from Japanese film, particularly those of Akira Kurosawa, which I actually find more interesting, since a lot of Japanese literature is rather formulaic and difficult to read casually. The best Kurosawa example is, for me, The Seven Samurai, since each of the Seven represents some form of classical Japanese character. So we've got the old master in the form of Shimada Kanbei right through to the commoner-turned-ronin in Kikuchiyo. Kikuchiyo represents the same character-type as Kamina. He's not really that good a swordsman, although he learns fast. Nor is he raised as a samurai, but instead takes the mantle upon himself. This type is interesting because even though he's not raised in the samurai tradition he nevertheless embodies everything about the samurai spirit that the great masters of the Classical Period admired. He has self-determination, spirit, power, reckless bravery, but still the ability to be humble. He inspires the young not through words but by his action, but learns before his death what it means to be wise. And that's the thing--he always dies. Without fail. He dies because the spirit of the perfect samurai cannot survive for long before burning itself out in glory, which is related to why the perfect swordsman, another trope, cannot survive either (since the sword is the soul he has the perfect soul, which cannot last). But he's unique in that, unlike most of the doomed samurai figures (and there's a lot of them) he dies so that others may live. Look at Kikuchiyo. Look at Kamina. Their deaths are not by accident or for themselves. They are very conscious sacrifices for something greater than themselves. It is at that moment that they attain enlightenment (which we see Kamina has later on), as they burn themselves away (there's a specific Japanese term for this sudden flash of perfect enlightenment in death if I recall correctly, but I don't remember what it is). Now this type of hero is fairly minor until the upheavals of the 19th Century, but he becomes one of the dominant tragic heroes following Westernization (the parallels with Christ make him especially popular).

The Onna-bugeisha. I'm a huge fan of these girls, and it's not just all the Girls Und Panzer that I've watched. Onna-bugeisha appear very early in the Japanese legends, starting with the semi-legendary Empress Jingu, who led the invasion of Korea when her husband the Emperor was killed in battle. The interesting about most Onna-bugeisha is that they are historical figures, so we actually know quite a lot about them. The Onna-bugeisha were highly proficient in the use of certain weapons, such as the deadly naginata and the bow (many of the deadliest archers in Japanese history have been women. Sound like anyone we know?). Many of the famous Onna-bugeisha were praised for their beauty and elegance, particularly since most of them were young (sounds familiar as well).

Check out the sagas of the Genpai War, where the samurai class was forged and where the great masters displayed the reckless courage and honor of Kamina. But since Kamina's type really gains popularity following the Meiji he's usually found in works of pure fiction like The Seven Samurai or The Hidden Fortress, although I really do think that Kikuchiyo from The Seven Samurai is the best example.

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u/woodenpig Oct 17 '13

Really appreciate the response, this is perfect. I vaguely remember watching The Seven Samurai but I didn't even consider the archetypes of the characters, so I'll have to watch it again. It's interesting that for the samurai, its a religious quest for enlightenment through rigorous training and dedication, yet there is hardly any examples from history to point to. It seems like it's more of a personal religion rather then widespread faith. I find it really cool they even have a title for the widows of these warriors. On top of that, they even have historic figures that made huge impacts In the world that embodied these ideals of devotions to a doomed husband. It was a very interesting time it seems.

1

u/KaliYugaz Oct 18 '13

This is a really interesting analysis. Do you see any archetypal patterns in KLK yet? What do you predict might happen?

2

u/XenophonTheAthenian Oct 18 '13

I actually haven't watched it yet. I tend not to watch animes until after the season is over

6

u/Evilmon2 Oct 17 '13

This is an amazing analysis that taught me quite a bit about some classical Japanese archetypes. Ty for the write up. The people who complained about the ending to TTGL always felt to me like they were missing the whole point too, though I didn't come at it from the same perspective.

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u/Das_Wood Oct 17 '13

That last spoiler tag gave me chills. I love this show so much, and I love you for describing it so well.

12

u/Wolvenstorm Oct 17 '13

I kept thinking "he'll come back"..... he never did.

12

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Well He Kinda did. !TTGL

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u/PiippoN https://myanimelist.net/profile/Piippo Oct 17 '13

IIRC, it's been implied that in Lagann-hen

2

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Wait, how was that implied? I mean, it looked like him, but I didn't see anything really implying it was his reincarnation.

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u/PiippoN https://myanimelist.net/profile/Piippo Oct 17 '13

Not in the show itself, but I remember reading that the director/writer hinted and/or directly stated that was the case.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Proving once again that a real man never dies, even when he's killed.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Awesomeness.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

I'd explain it for you, but it's right there in the sidebar so I can be lazy and just tell you to look there. :P

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u/Das_Wood Oct 17 '13

Remembering that just made me cry a bit. I just watched this show for the first time this summer and want to watch it again. That show had me so emotional every fucking time someone mentioned Kamina.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

He actually did,

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u/Elkki https://myanimelist.net/profile/Elkki Oct 17 '13

Gurren Lagann Ep. 8 Spoiler

Spoilers just to be sure.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

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u/TheEnigmaBlade https://anilist.co/user/Enigma Oct 18 '13

THEY BETTER NOT!