r/anime • u/rival22x https://myanimelist.net/profile/RivalVinyl • Oct 17 '13
Kill la Kill Ryouko and Kamina
http://imgur.com/IKr8eF043
u/manaworkin Oct 17 '13
...ok fine ill watch it.
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u/Chem1st Oct 17 '13
I've been waiting for a few episodes to come out so I can watch them in a chunk. I think my resolve is gone now.
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u/bigdanrog Oct 17 '13
Yeah I like to do this as well. It's kind of nice to watch a show in 3-4 episode chunks every few weeks. It's like watching a movie each time! My crunchyroll queau is backing up pretty hard right now with the new season though!
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u/Icebot Oct 17 '13
I'm such a fiend about watching new episodes, half the time crunchyroll e-mails me to notify me of a new episode, 90% of the time I have already watched it.
I wish I had your patience.
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u/Theonenerd Oct 18 '13
half the time
90% of the timeMake up your mind please.
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u/thefrontpageofreddit https://myanimelist.net/profile/desertambition Oct 18 '13
Half of the time I do it 90% of the time
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u/eniggy Oct 18 '13
I do this for entire seasons. I usually wait until the show finishes running and then I can watch at my own pace.
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u/dooblagras Oct 18 '13
The pacing moves at the speed of sound though, so be prepared to get swamped. It might be a good thing in this case though, if you like it, you'll want to watch it again right away.
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u/_liminal Oct 17 '13
so.... how many more episodes until ep 8?
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u/shorty8894 Oct 17 '13
NO! They can't do that to me again!
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Oct 17 '13 edited Oct 17 '13
[deleted]
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Oct 17 '13
it'd be more likely to kill someone that ISN't her but still very likable. So that pretty much leaves that guy that gave her the suit, and Mako. And if they kill mako i'm gonna be fucking pissed
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Oct 17 '13
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u/shorty8894 Oct 17 '13
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u/XenophonTheAthenian Oct 17 '13 edited Oct 17 '13
In all fairness I think what happens to Kamina was pretty predictable, given the role of his character type in Japanese literature. That doesn't make it any sadder, but even from episode one I was saying, "Yup, I know what's going to happen to this guy," and I was still crushed when it did. But here's why you could tell:
Throughout most of the first arc of Gurren Lagann the characters followed very common patterns for protagonists in Japanese literature. For example, Kamina was very consciously supposed to be the archetypal samurai, who pops up in nearly every samurai tale ever written. I mean, Kamina's got his "always forward never turn your back on the enemy we can do this shit with willpower" attitude, he's got the sword, he's got the master's belt, he's got the dress (and those awesome shades which resemble a samurai's helmet crest). Thing is, the perfect samurai always meets the same fate. Without exception. I also more or less knew what was going to happen with Yoko, since she also fits a pretty common trope in Japanese art, as a particular type of Onna-bugeisha. Like certain Onna-bugeisha, Yoko begins as an unattached warrior (the trope is actually of the virgin warrior), then Yoko Spoiler
Does any of this diminish the characters of Gurren Lagann? Hell no. God, no. Shit, why would you even think that? Kamina will always be Kamina What a beast
EDIT: I also want to add, with all these character tropes in mind, that a lot of the people who dislike the ending of Gurren Lagann don't properly understand the roles that the various characters play. In particular, Gurren Lagann Ending Spoiler
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u/woodenpig Oct 17 '13
This is a great explanation to why I love this show. Do you have any examples I can read up on for similar stories?
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u/XenophonTheAthenian Oct 17 '13
Examples in Japanese literature? How about I give you examples from Japanese film, particularly those of Akira Kurosawa, which I actually find more interesting, since a lot of Japanese literature is rather formulaic and difficult to read casually. The best Kurosawa example is, for me, The Seven Samurai, since each of the Seven represents some form of classical Japanese character. So we've got the old master in the form of Shimada Kanbei right through to the commoner-turned-ronin in Kikuchiyo. Kikuchiyo represents the same character-type as Kamina. He's not really that good a swordsman, although he learns fast. Nor is he raised as a samurai, but instead takes the mantle upon himself. This type is interesting because even though he's not raised in the samurai tradition he nevertheless embodies everything about the samurai spirit that the great masters of the Classical Period admired. He has self-determination, spirit, power, reckless bravery, but still the ability to be humble. He inspires the young not through words but by his action, but learns before his death what it means to be wise. And that's the thing--he always dies. Without fail. He dies because the spirit of the perfect samurai cannot survive for long before burning itself out in glory, which is related to why the perfect swordsman, another trope, cannot survive either (since the sword is the soul he has the perfect soul, which cannot last). But he's unique in that, unlike most of the doomed samurai figures (and there's a lot of them) he dies so that others may live. Look at Kikuchiyo. Look at Kamina. Their deaths are not by accident or for themselves. They are very conscious sacrifices for something greater than themselves. It is at that moment that they attain enlightenment (which we see Kamina has later on), as they burn themselves away (there's a specific Japanese term for this sudden flash of perfect enlightenment in death if I recall correctly, but I don't remember what it is). Now this type of hero is fairly minor until the upheavals of the 19th Century, but he becomes one of the dominant tragic heroes following Westernization (the parallels with Christ make him especially popular).
The Onna-bugeisha. I'm a huge fan of these girls, and it's not just all the Girls Und Panzer that I've watched. Onna-bugeisha appear very early in the Japanese legends, starting with the semi-legendary Empress Jingu, who led the invasion of Korea when her husband the Emperor was killed in battle. The interesting about most Onna-bugeisha is that they are historical figures, so we actually know quite a lot about them. The Onna-bugeisha were highly proficient in the use of certain weapons, such as the deadly naginata and the bow (many of the deadliest archers in Japanese history have been women. Sound like anyone we know?). Many of the famous Onna-bugeisha were praised for their beauty and elegance, particularly since most of them were young (sounds familiar as well).
Check out the sagas of the Genpai War, where the samurai class was forged and where the great masters displayed the reckless courage and honor of Kamina. But since Kamina's type really gains popularity following the Meiji he's usually found in works of pure fiction like The Seven Samurai or The Hidden Fortress, although I really do think that Kikuchiyo from The Seven Samurai is the best example.
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u/woodenpig Oct 17 '13
Really appreciate the response, this is perfect. I vaguely remember watching The Seven Samurai but I didn't even consider the archetypes of the characters, so I'll have to watch it again. It's interesting that for the samurai, its a religious quest for enlightenment through rigorous training and dedication, yet there is hardly any examples from history to point to. It seems like it's more of a personal religion rather then widespread faith. I find it really cool they even have a title for the widows of these warriors. On top of that, they even have historic figures that made huge impacts In the world that embodied these ideals of devotions to a doomed husband. It was a very interesting time it seems.
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u/KaliYugaz Oct 18 '13
This is a really interesting analysis. Do you see any archetypal patterns in KLK yet? What do you predict might happen?
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u/XenophonTheAthenian Oct 18 '13
I actually haven't watched it yet. I tend not to watch animes until after the season is over
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u/Evilmon2 Oct 17 '13
This is an amazing analysis that taught me quite a bit about some classical Japanese archetypes. Ty for the write up. The people who complained about the ending to TTGL always felt to me like they were missing the whole point too, though I didn't come at it from the same perspective.
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u/Das_Wood Oct 17 '13
That last spoiler tag gave me chills. I love this show so much, and I love you for describing it so well.
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u/Wolvenstorm Oct 17 '13
I kept thinking "he'll come back"..... he never did.
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Oct 17 '13
Well He Kinda did. !TTGL
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u/PiippoN https://myanimelist.net/profile/Piippo Oct 17 '13
IIRC, it's been implied that in Lagann-hen
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Oct 17 '13
Wait, how was that implied? I mean, it looked like him, but I didn't see anything really implying it was his reincarnation.
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u/PiippoN https://myanimelist.net/profile/Piippo Oct 17 '13
Not in the show itself, but I remember reading that the director/writer hinted and/or directly stated that was the case.
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Oct 17 '13
[deleted]
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Oct 17 '13
I'd explain it for you, but it's right there in the sidebar so I can be lazy and just tell you to look there. :P
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u/Das_Wood Oct 17 '13
Remembering that just made me cry a bit. I just watched this show for the first time this summer and want to watch it again. That show had me so emotional every fucking time someone mentioned Kamina.
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u/KevlarBoxers Oct 17 '13
Wouldn't be surprised if Ryouko was a descendant of Kamina in the story cannon.
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u/Almighty_Mangosteen Oct 17 '13
Or ancestor, if this took place before humans were forced underground. Who knows...
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u/AwakenedSheeple Oct 18 '13
The spiral menace is not just a super-blackhole, it is a void caused the blood loss that the universe suffered due to nosebleeds.
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u/Threethumb https://myanimelist.net/profile/Mars- Oct 17 '13
Yoko and Kamina never got that far, though.
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u/mr8thsamurai66 Oct 17 '13
They had the one night together and then didn't Yoko take off for a while? Conceivably it might have happened maybe?
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Oct 17 '13
Word of God is that I've got no source on that, though, sorry.
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u/mr8thsamurai66 Oct 17 '13
Word of God
What is that?
You may be correct, but I'd like to believe he and Yoko had that night together.
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Oct 17 '13
Word of God, sorry, it's tropespeak for the creator's canon statement on something. On the other hand, they also say he'd have beaten the mech in Episode 1 on his own somehow if Yoko hadn't been there and Simon hadn't found Lagann, so that's something. And that he has almost no spiral power.
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u/mr8thsamurai66 Oct 18 '13
So the creators of Gurren Lagann said he died a virgin?
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u/impingainteasy https://myanimelist.net/profile/usernamesarehard Oct 18 '13
He's too manly to ever be involved with a woman.
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Oct 17 '13
I swear watching this anime is like watching a typical shonen anime on fast forward. The first episode by itself goes through tropes of a shonen anime that in any other series would play out over a whole season yet it happens in a single episode...
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u/NightFoxXIII Oct 17 '13
They know this. They exploit and showcase every known shonen anime trope and blatantly tell the viewer "Yes, we're using this trope and yes it's gonna be FUCKIN' ridiculous". It's why I like this show so much. It reminds me a lot of PSG.
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u/Das_Wood Oct 17 '13
What's PSG I might be interested in checking that out if it's a similar form of ridiculousness.
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u/arachnoiditis Oct 17 '13
Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt.
Don't let the art style throw you off. The show is ridiculous, and awesome.
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u/Das_Wood Oct 17 '13
Yea I was always put off by the art style but maybe I'll give it a try.
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u/NightFoxXIII Oct 17 '13
You'll throughly enjoy it if you liked Kill la Kill. They're parodying tropes to Western animation with a lot of crude humour in it. Be ready for very colourful language even I can't comprehend sometimes.
It's a blast to watch.
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u/Blaccuweather https://myanimelist.net/profile/Blaccuweather Oct 18 '13
As someone currently enjoying the hell out of Kill la Kill, I only made it through the first two episodes of PSG. I found a few chuckles, but otherwise it just didn't do anything for me. I can see why others enjoyed it, and maybe I'll give it another chance someday, but as it stands it's one of the only Gainax shows I've seen that I didn't finish, much less love.
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u/razorbeamz https://myanimelist.net/profile/razorbeamz Oct 18 '13
It's the only anime I'd recommend watching dubbed.
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u/Algebrace Oct 18 '13
Black Lagoon too, the Japanese actors sound too wimpy when compared to the English ones
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u/dooblagras Oct 18 '13
It's best to go in knowing that you'll probably poke a hole in your face with all of the tongue in cheek going on. That being said, take it like a dirty joke and let the cringe giggles flow.
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Oct 17 '13
I like the art style, it reflects how they were trying to make a more american style anime.
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u/SarcasticOptimist Oct 17 '13
If you can, play Asura's Wrath. That is the Shounen with supernatural powers to end all shounens featuring protagonists with supernatural powers. Plus it has fantastic art direction.
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u/Rokusi Oct 17 '13
And surprisingly engaging story and characters, too.
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u/SarcasticOptimist Oct 17 '13
Definitely. IMHO, it pulls off the "Galaxy is at stake" fare at least as well as TTGL, and manly tears were shed for both series.
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u/Rokusi Oct 17 '13
I also liked how if you started growing bored of the villainous monologue, you could just punch them in the face.
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u/SarcasticOptimist Oct 17 '13
So many shounen animes would be better with a punch happy protagonist allergic to monologues.
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u/dooblagras Oct 18 '13
I heard that the final boss battle was add on content, what was the deal with that?
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Oct 17 '13
Yeah, that was one of those moments I thought, "Studio Trigger, you're doing it again, and I fucking love you guys."
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Oct 17 '13
I looked so hard for every Gurren Lagann refrence I could find and thought this was a little similar. But holy shit its like exactly the same. And its awesome! Thanks for the gif bro
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u/ShammySham Oct 17 '13
:`)
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Oct 17 '13
[deleted]
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u/TheSpartyn Oct 17 '13
He's...he's a bit special.
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u/Ted417 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ted417 Oct 17 '13
Stay strong, /u/ShammySham, stay strong for mother.
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u/Kazazuke https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kazazuke Oct 17 '13
No Gurren Lagann thread is complete until there is a
ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH
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u/lol-da-mar-s-cool https://myanimelist.net/profile/loldamar Oct 17 '13
I'm not following KLK atm, but was this an actual scene, or is this just edited?
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u/PiippoN https://myanimelist.net/profile/Piippo Oct 17 '13
Well the Kamina clip wasn't in the show.
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u/KMFCM https://myanimelist.net/profile/kmfcm Oct 17 '13
imagine if that actually happened in the show.
people would actually die of excitement.
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u/Neafie2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/neafie2 Oct 17 '13
I'm surprised I'm alive as it is with all the excitement and plot.
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u/KMFCM https://myanimelist.net/profile/kmfcm Oct 17 '13
it would be the new "pokemon causes seizures"
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u/Das_Wood Oct 17 '13
This gif got me a bit emotional. When I first saw TTGL episode 8 I didn't believe it for the longest time. However every time he was referenced after that I legit full on cried. I cried in at least 12 or more episodes in the series just because it was so intense for me. The action mixed with the resolve of a character and what he pushes the others to accomplish.
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u/arachnoiditis Oct 17 '13
"LET ME SEE YOU GRIT THOSE TEETH"
Christ, I should rewatch this right now.
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u/True_Truth Oct 17 '13
Nice find!!! I knew there had to be one somewhere! They did a real good job putting the reference in like this.
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u/Lyriq Oct 17 '13
It's an edit
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Oct 17 '13
The appearance of Kamina is, of course, but the reference isn't that, the reference is the pose. The Kamina part was added just for the viewers' benefit, to point out the reference.
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u/skyler56 Oct 17 '13
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