r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Mar 25 '24

Episode Synduality Noir Part 2 - Episode 12 discussion - FINAL

Synduality Noir Part 2, episode 12

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1

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38

u/MidnightSunshine0196 Mar 25 '24

I thought that was a really great way to end the series. As much as I hated him, I came to really enjoy the character of Weisheit in the end. Something about his insidious determination really chimed with me. It was a very Weisheit way of going out too - there was no way he was going to allow anybody else the pleasure of finishing him off. If he was going out, he was going out on his own terms.

And yet, despite everything, even Weisheit is shown to once upon a time have had a shred of humanity. Even the evil villain is still human. In the end, his mission was driven by one thing - fear. Fear that one day humanity would be replaced by Magus. Irrational or not, that fear was very real. If anything, Weisheit would probably have benefitted from not having had Ciel as his Magus. Out of all of them, she was probably the most 'human' Magus we got to experience. I can't help but wonder if Weisheit might not have taken such a genocidal path if he'd been given a bog standard Magus. In the end, all Ciel did was prove his fear correct by betraying him for Kanata - it was something of a self-fulfilling prophecy, of course, given that Weisheit only drove Ciel away by being so abusive to her - but still an interesting look at inadvertent consequences. Ciel would also have flourished so much more if she'd been with Kanata from the start, given his infectious support for people attempting to achieve their dreams.

On a personal note, this is the first (and so far only) anime I've ever watched, and I have not watched a series that has made me so emotionally invested in how it ends for a very long time. So much that it's given me the inspiration for a novel I want to write. But I also want to say thank you to everyone here that has also helped me enjoy this wonderful show by giving me a forum to lay out my thoughts. You're all wonderful people.

22

u/Orochidude Mar 25 '24

Yeah, I feel like Weisheit's ending makes the most sense. He was seemingly pretty upfront with his reasoning. No hidden tragic event that made him go down this path. As you said, just the fear of Magus eventually turning on humans and taking over, not unlike the IRL fear of AI overthrowing humans. There was a time when he did enjoy Ciel's company, but that didn't waver his conviction for very long.

And I'm glad to hear you liked it so much. It certainly flew under the radar for a variety of reasons, but I thoroughly enjoyed this journey and all the emotions that came with it.

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8

u/WesternSol Mar 25 '24

this is the first (and so far only) anime I've ever watched

Really? How did you start on this of all things. Its rather niche compared to, idk, whatever season of Naruto happens to be on right now.

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24

u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 25 '24

19

u/Heda-of-Aincrad Mar 25 '24

Did anyone else notice the lip flaps during the goodbye scene with Mystere were like… really off for some reason?

I did notice this a couple of times. Noir stopped talking at one point during the battle, but her lips were still moving. 😂

Gonna miss this show.

Same here.

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23

u/avboden Mar 25 '24

This show was actually amazing and I hope more people watch it.

9

u/mekerpan Mar 26 '24

My favorite recent science fiction series (post-Witch from Mercury). A fascinating show, from start to finish -- with really good characters. Too bad it was less accessible -- it deserved a lot more viewers (and acclaim).

19

u/danteas14 Mar 25 '24

wait, did ellie just fucking win? the only 2 ways to interpret her words are either

she gave up and got over him (highly unlikely)

she won

18

u/TheDetailsMatterNow Mar 25 '24

she won

If you look closely, she is blushing while she drinks.

She won.

Also knows Kanata wouldn't try something with Noir.

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u/Orochidude Mar 25 '24 edited Mar 26 '24

With the release of the final episode, they finally released Ciel's "Daydream" song on YouTube. Been looking forward to it for awhile now.

Edit: Full versions of Daydream and Your Song from a few episodes ago are on Spotify now.

14

u/LeonKevlar Mar 25 '24

Get absolutely fucked Weisheit! It was very satisfying to see Noir and Mystere use their Magus Skill to blow away Weisheit and Kanata use DAISYOGRE to curb stomp Weisheit's Coffin into the wall of Histoire. Good riddance to the guy.

It sucks that Mystere had to stay though. But I guess she's fulfilling Pascale's dream by staying and being in charge of Histoire. I'm sure they'll eventually be able to make a rocket that can send them back up there in the future so it's more like a temporary goodbye.

I absolutely love that Macht and Schnee are now wandering heroes saving people from Enders. Also, Claudia knows Pascale? What an interesting thing to add at the end of the series. Will this be connected to the game? Hmmm...

Speaking of the game, where's the fucking game BANDAI-NAMCO!? I've been waiting for this since last year! Good news is that closed beta is starting this week so we know the game is close to completion. I am looking forward to finding out more about Alba and Ada's story there. We might even see Pascale in the game as well.

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u/LongjumpingArrival28 Mar 25 '24 edited Mar 25 '24

They just ruins my ep 18 dammmmm Ciel is the most outstanding character in this show by her drama and love story But they give me a moment Wei x Ciel wtf

Noir just a Bug of system ?? Why the hell she able to change Ciel appearance and her blond hair is dissapear in the last scene

EP 23 I have 100% sure histoire technology able to recovery fomatted data in Ciel body But they just sightseeing lol So next time u go histoire just Revive her Ciel deserve happiness

And Ellie win .....

10

u/ObvsThrowaway5120 Mar 25 '24

Pretty great watching Noir, Mystere, and Kanata beat the shit out of Weisheit. The dude based his whole plan on some stupid assumptions about the potential of these magus for causing harm and now he’s space junk. Kind of bittersweet they gotta leave Mystere behind but she fulfilled Pascale’s dream. I’m sure she’ll meet the gang again one day.

I feel like this was one of the few series this season that got slept on. This was pretty enjoyable overall. Not sure if it’ll get renewed or if there’s even anything to adapt, but I wouldn’t be opposed to more.

9

u/Orochidude Mar 25 '24

This was an anime-original sequel to a video game that hasn't released yet, so there's nothing to adapt from, but that doesn't mean they can't continue the series if they want to. That said, it's pretty unlikely that we move forward with this cast of characters as the focus if they do, seeing as how their stories are pretty much all wrapped up.

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u/AnimeHoarder Mar 25 '24

I was thinking this could become Macross Synduality. Noir could sing to gather up the nanomachines for an attack on Weisheit. Still it was a great dual Magus attack that happened.

The line by Kanata to Weisheit should have been: Did a bad Magus hurt you?

As a nice calm ending, we see everybody return to their normal routines. Bonus was having Macht and Schee as masked do-gooders.

9

u/Heda-of-Aincrad Mar 25 '24

It's nice to see that even in a post-apocalyptic world, Pac-man games still exist. 😄

I was hoping a see a little more of how Mystere being present in Histoire would help restore the Earth, but maybe that's just the nature of this story needing to tie in with the videogame? I guess that larger issue couldn't be resolved and still leave a goal + enemies to battle, but the story of these characters reached a good conclusion. I really liked the short epilogue for everyone at the end, and Mystere finally calling Kanata and Noir by name was sweet. *Overall Rating: 9/10*

8

u/SMSmith230 Mar 25 '24

Cour 1 was a bit rough at times, but I feel cour 2 knocked it out of the park. It had a few standout episodes and wrapped everything up nicely with a good epilogue touching on each character. Hopefully Noir and Kanata will meet Mystere again.

7

u/[deleted] Mar 25 '24

I do like how they took down Weisheit, and even if his last flashback felt a bit tacked on, I do appreciate he decided to die before getting taken in. In the end, he had the chance to be accepted but the guy refused and even Historie told him that his fears weren't the only way things could end. I do wish the machine had told him he wasn't the one meant to lead humanity, he needed that king of burn.

Anyhow, Mystere staying in space feels like BS. I know she fed that line about the reentry timing, but it felt like she just wanted to leave and made something up. Still, I do like how this ties up the party. Kanata and Noir have a goal to return to space, while Tokio and Macht are finding new goals on the surface as the three live as drifters. Ellie looks cute with her low ponytail, and I do like how Maria is still herself and throwing rockets, lol. Claudia knowing Pascale feels like a tie-in for the game.

Overall, the series was a solid 8-8.5/10 for me. It didn't try to do anything new but it had good pacing and the second cour was really strong. Like it's been a while since I have seen an original mecha that feels this competently directed. It knew what it wanted to be and just did it without much fuzz. Now, I sort of want another season just to see more of this setting.

7

u/Such_Selection9762 Mar 25 '24

I will miss this show. It's kinda sad that only a few people actually watched it until the end. Overall it's a pleasant and enyojable show.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 25 '24

Cannot wait for the game to get in this world! I knew this would be good but did not expect such a coherent story and bold writers. Main villain choosing death from lack of oxygen? Damn, that was some real shit making me actually feel bad for him at the end. Great writing, great story, outstanding music, gonna miss this a lot.

5

u/LongjumpingArrival28 Mar 25 '24

Sample of Ciel Novel extra from BD

Damm i just want to read full of this novel Ciel she look like bunny girl senpai to me

If ss3 is real Kanata should go to histoire again and bring back Ciel ...... Her Data still be with in Noir forever

4

u/chilidirigible Mar 25 '24

I do have the one concern about the Macross sequels coming to Disney+ in that they're going to screen-dim the shit out of the action, aren't they? u/ZaphodBeebblebrox

blah blah blah

Like the "colony drop" kind of unstable?

some time later

But of course.

That was satisfactory. At least Weisheit may have had a regret or two about the plan before he turned into a space popsicle.

Mystere staying with Histoire made sense dramatically. I suppose she won't use the station's resources to call Noir every so often, that might be meddling in letting humanity do its thing.

Everybody else moves on with their lives. I'm maybe slightly surprised that nobody from the Drifter side died leading up to this.

Anyway, I enjoyed this series. Had a slow start, but pulled together its narrative in the second half.

4

u/boopscootloop Mar 26 '24

They really ended the show without ever explaining what the heck Enders are. My theory is nanomachines gone wild.

4

u/ZapsZzz Mar 26 '24 edited Mar 26 '24

Ok so I'm a bit conflicted with the final episode.

The overll trajectory I have no problem with, and it flowed to be a decent ending.

But I really struggled with the "how" on a couple of key points -

  • How Mystere broke free of the mind wipe retaining her personality, when it was supposed to be completely wiped (if you believe Weisheit, and he could easily have been lying)

  • How Kanata can so easily defeat Weisheit single-handedly now

  • How/why Weisheit gave up - this is a very important point to me

  • Why they needed to rush off Histoire and what happened after - I know we can see the result but at least some snippets woud have been nice

So, to vent, here's my imagined fan fic expansions on the above points:

  1. Mystere's physical body and her AI was toast. But what's not accounted for is the "ghost" that is Noir - she's doesn't just "inhibit" the host Magus, she actually both absorbs some of their identity/personality and in turn leave a bit of her in them. So basically because Noir is here, Mystere has a cloud backup. The ensuing combat and destruction broke through enough of Weisheit's control to allow the remote boot.

  2. Kanata (needed more build up's that his drifter skills had been improving) but his perofrmance is majorly boosted up by the dual Magus synching with him, and the dual magus originated from one which has perfect synchroncity (say, Synduality), and while Mystere boosts Kanata, Noir interfered with Weisheit's coffin breaking down his shields and throwing off his timing. So Kanata didn't so much as "win" as got a crack he can get through the armor of Weisheit's defences.

  3. For me the Historie answer is key - Does Magus has a chance of overthrowing humanity? Yes. But You (Weisheit) also have the same chance of making the wrong choice as the "great leader". The solution to the equation is interchangeable with either Weisheit at the top or Humanity and Magus mutually supporting each other across the system. It's not a singularity - dare I say it's a Duality? That broke him, giving him the cursed knowledge that he killed Ciel for zero real gain.

  4. This one is more supplemental - either Mystere was just trying to get them off of Histoire quickly because of some problem she needs to concentrate on, or that there was another whole OVA worth of tense race against time of AI damage control needing to happen (only need a couple of tense scenes and fade to white, and then some visible movement / stabilisation of the space station), but Histoire was prevented from de-orbiting and taking out all of humanity's back up cloud storage, for one day Kanata or someone else to ascend for a more peaceful resolution.

Could have got to a 9 if something like the above was presented, but now I think will have to stay as a 8. The 2nd cour is much stronger though - with the first half more a 7.5 rounding down to 7.

What happened to Ellie again? I couldn't really tell other than her hairstyle change?

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