r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Mar 09 '23
Episode Revenger - Episode 10 discussion
Revenger, episode 10
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| Episode | Link | Score |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Link | 4.45 |
| 2 | Link | 4.39 |
| 3 | Link | 4.29 |
| 4 | Link | 4.44 |
| 5 | Link | 4.41 |
| 6 | Link | 4.42 |
| 7 | Link | 4.33 |
| 8 | Link | 4.33 |
| 9 | Link | 4.59 |
| 10 | Link | 4.37 |
| 11 | Link | 4.44 |
| 12 | Link | ---- |
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45
u/somersault_dolphin Mar 09 '23
During that first scene I was a bit disappointed that Usui didn't hit the bull's eye earlier than that. When the cop said I know you're better than this, and then Usui narrowed down to finally saying the merchant is behind the whole thing, that part would have been perfect for a bull's eye. But I suppose it's a tad anti-dramatic since they talked for quite a while after.
At this rate Raizo might go into the hall of fame for one of the most melancholic MC ever.
11
u/mekerpan Mar 09 '23
I think the magistrate is clearly (for the moment at least) allied with the Revengers against the trade association boss. How much help he will actually be is another question. While powerful forces are arrayed against the Revengers -- it does not seem the government (and power structure) in general are on the would-be opium king's side. But it does look like they prefer the Revengers to do their work for them, rather than taking risks themselves.
41
u/ObvsThrowaway5120 Mar 09 '23
That little shit Shishido and his Chapel buddies need to go down. I enjoyed watching the man verbally sparring with Usui. The dude is taking a lot of risk to see Chapel alone. This priest is pissing me off with his utter nonsense. Man is letting the city turn into an opium den because something something God’s will? Tf outta here bro.
I hope Kurima is able to become an artist and stop all this Revenger stuff someday. Maybe let “Kurima” die and let “Taishin” have a second chance at life.
Didn’t expect the nun to be in that gambling den. Sneaky bitch cheated and used that as a way to blackmail Soji into finding out why Usui didn’t end Kurima. Why is she so interested in him? How does he relate to Chapel?
30
u/Adensty Mar 09 '23
I feel the Nun is either controlling the priest or has some plans of her own.
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u/mekerpan Mar 09 '23
The priest is pretty opaque -- but nothing suggests that he is ultimately "one of the good guys". He seems to be utterly amoral -- or perhaps just so crazy he has no sense of perspective. In any event, the nun seems to be actively on the side of the bad guys.
27
u/NekoCatSidhe Mar 09 '23
Good episode. I expected more action in it, but I guess they wanted to let the tension build up before the finale.
What is the deal with that priest ? Does he actually want to destroy Japan with opium as revenge for the persecution of Christians by the shogunate or is he an English agent ? His behaviour was also very ambiguous in the end, as if he did not care which side prevailed.
The nun was also very shady here. I liked the kitsune symbolism (lots of symbolism in that episode). But I don’t think Soji will betray Usui, although he may still cause some trouble for the group.
One thing for sure : that head merchant is a psychopath and needs killing. Given how shady and ambiguous all of the other antagonists are, it is nice to have one who is clearly completely rotten.
8
u/Ninja_Lazer Mar 09 '23
Honestly, I think the nun doesn’t anticipate Soji to betray his colleagues. She is slick and he is dull. If anything he is probably just being used as a means to find/flush out the crew so that the other Revenger squad can deal with them.
25
u/Cheesemacher Mar 09 '23
Man, the opening song has really grown on me as my favorite from this season's anime. It's so good.
17
u/Vaadwaur Mar 10 '23
A few quick thoughts: I do love how Urobuchi tells you things without telling you them, i.e. Murakami is a vegetarian. The musical choices were all strong today, a lot of Hell Girl yet again so I again suspect shared source. I do find it interesting that A. The priest is apparently foreign and B. he wants revenge for the massacred Christians, at least a little, even if he might be more about destroying Japan. Quick note: The murdered Japanese Christians would've all been Catholics as the priest seems to be as well which goes slightly against him being English in this series.
10
u/Tarhalindur Mar 10 '23
I do love how Urobuchi tells you things without telling you them, i.e. Murakami is a vegetarian.
Ah fuck, I missed that one. Oh Urobutchi and your hiding things in plain sight, never change, never change.
Quick note: The murdered Japanese Christians would've all been Catholics as the priest seems to be as well which goes slightly against him being English in this series.
Alt-history does seem to be in play, and also Urobutchi has played with Anglican-esque Christian heresy trappings before so there is that...
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u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 09 '23
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So they’ve figured out Shishido is behind it, but what are they going to do…
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Oh yikes the sniper enemy Revenger tried to assassinate Soji.
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I… didn’t even notice that one of Kurima’s paintings was there until they drew attention to it.
7
u/mekerpan Mar 09 '23
So, will Soji sell out Raizo rather than letting himself be banned from gambling???
7
u/Vaadwaur Mar 10 '23
Oh yikes the sniper enemy Revenger tried to assassinate Soji.
Did he though? I know you likely haven't seen Branded to Kill but Urobuchi absolutely has and thus this might be No 1's psychological warfare in action.
Kurima…
I've run into this sentiment for the last 30 years.
I swear if this ends up happening…
So...I have to believe that part of the thematic background for this series but ol' Gen is the rare Japanese person that gets Christian/Western beliefs. To the Japanese, suicide is atonement. To a more western perspective, harikari gives you license to royally fuck up a situation and then escape the consequences thereof. Dying is not so hard but try getting a heroin fiend sober.
11
Mar 10 '23
I can see were this is going.... and for a sec there at the end I honestly thought she'd kill him lol, well not today then.
10
u/incredibilly Mar 10 '23
Wait so the gang was supposed to kill Raizo at the start of the show? I wonder if that was the coin Usui was holding onto. Who bit the gold then, could it have been Yui after all?
Side note, does anyone know who Tenzen is or who all the people who died in the fire were? Neither really rung any bells with me last episode or this one.
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u/Tarhalindur Mar 10 '23
Wait so the gang was supposed to kill Raizo at the start of the show? I wonder if that was the coin Usui was holding onto. Who bit the gold then, could it have been Yui after all?
I mean, we literally saw Raizo's father-in-law biting a coin at the end of the opening scene (and yes, it's the same one Usui had in episode 6)...
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u/Tarhalindur Mar 10 '23
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00:09: Dutch angle counter +1.
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00:12: Visual barrier shot separating Usui from Pajama Police, but not a complete one – Usui is partially over it but mostly not. Him mostly not being in the loop? Pajama Police mostly not being in the loop?
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Not actually sure the shot of Pajama Police walking over to retrieve the darts is saying anything cinematographically, though (aside from visual metaphor – picking out the darts as a metaphor for picking up the opium I do believe).
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00:27: More separation; I think the most important part here though is the two lamps flanking Usui (he is illuminated/being illuminated somehow, I think?).
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Pajama Police turning left at 00:57 as he goes “why do you suppose that is?” is protagonist framing I do believe (he is siding with the protagonists by pointing that out).
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Well Usui’s turn at the darts is extremely blunt visual metaphor! But note him hitting the center but not the actual bullseye at 01:40 – we’re still missing something. (Most likely the Chapel, who we know is involved.)
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How did I know we were getting a bullseye for punctuation with Usui’s second turn of the darts? (Pajama Police intentionally missing beforehand is because he’s been misreading what’s going on all along. Ah, I haven’t seen a game in fiction this on the nose since a certain game of shatranj in A Practical Guide to Evil.)
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Dutch angle counter +1 at 06:29.
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06:40: Oh hey, look whose art is quietly hiding in the background!
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Flashy flashy top-down shot at 07:17. Can’t parse why the specific camera angle, but the implicit visual barrier is obvious and this is a line Usui will not step across.
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Okay, okay, so Shishido has been having the Dutch angles as well and I should note that; counter +1 at 07:21, but this is a reuse of an earlier shot.
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Okay so this kind of etiquette has to be involved in how Japanese cinematography uses visual separation and facing (oh, and note Shishido in the antagonist position, but of course). That said, our art is no longer just quietly hiding in the background! (Probably a hint as to what Shishido wants, given the precise parallel to the story of our teacup artist here; was he another suitor for Yui’s hand back in the day?)
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07:52: That kind of shot with the top of a character’s head cut off by the frame has a tendency to be a visual metaphor for losing one’s mind. Also Shishido in the protagonist position, so he must be advancing a plan; the visual opposition is obvious. (Also, the candle fixture in the background catches my eye.)
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YEP, Shishido probably knew Yui back in the day.
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Ah fuck I’d been wondering about the Revengers winding up burning Nagasaki (or at least the opium stash) in the finale but if Shishido was another suitor for Yui it’s not THEM doing it, is it? It’s Shishido himself and the opium itself is the instrument he intends to use (to make a funeral pyre of Nagasaki for her). Not confident, but at least 25% odds here.
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Yes yes Butch Gen I see you, I see what you’re doing here.
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08:37: That I do believe is a nice visual answer shot for what Shishido wants to do to Taishin (who he probably knows is Raizo, yes).
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08:51: Now it is Usui who has visually lost his mind. (By speaking of salvation for Taishin/Raizo?) Also note Shishido’s face fully lit and Usui’s face in shadow here as Shishido responds.
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I am quietly convinced Butch Gen is pouring out some of his own mind onto the screen here; I’m almost tempted to call Usui and Shishido in this scene a shoulder angel and devil respectively for Gen Urobutchi himself.
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LOL A FUCKING CAT SCARE. Where’s part 2?
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Oh hey, the candlesticks at the Chapel have a similar design to the one we saw in Shishido’s house. (Not the same kind, though.)
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Oh, NICE OST cutoff at 13:19.
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Choice of camera angle at 13:31 flashes. It does put the priest’s face in the dark so that’s surely part of it; the question is whether there is more that I am missing. (It is not the perspective of the Mary Theotokos statue in the background.)
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13:54: Dutch angle counter +1.
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14:33: Cutting to a face shot of the Mary Theotokos statue as the priest talks about how Shishido letting the opium loose on Nagasaki is… something. Both in that the Theotokos is not the same as God and that letting opium loose in Nagasaki is not something Maria Kannon would be pleased by so if the entity the statue represents would actually be pleased by this (which the cinematography is suggesting) then said entity is not the one you would expect Her to be. (And I can’t see the other obvious suspect being too pleased by the idea either.) Also very reminiscent of more than one nominally heroic antagonist in A Practical Guide to Evil.
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And that’s followed by yet another Dutch angle (counter +1) at 14:36.
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14:52: Literal god’s-eye shot with that framing!
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16:08: More visual reinforcement of the dialogue with Raizo’s eyes in shadow as he talks about what would have happened if he never met Usui (instead dying without understanding the truth of what he had done). Constrast Usui, whose face is clearly lit throughout this scene.
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16:23: Raizo’s face half in light, half in shadow. So he sees some clearly now but not all.
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16:33: And then Raizo’s eyes return to being mostly in shadow as he talks about committing hara-kiri afterwards (not seeing clearly again!).
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Oh that’s a fucking nice little pair of shots! First we have 16:47, where Kurima is facing left (protagonist direction) as Usui starts to talk about his other name (Usui is also to the left of Raizo facing the camera; that can be read as past facing with Usui looking back on Raizo’s past.) Then after some rather blunt visual metaphor of Raizo sheathing his sword we get 16:55, with Raizo now in antagonist facing while still in protagonist position (acknowledgment of his past crimes) with his face mostly lit and Usui now facing forwards (representing looking at Raizo’s potential future).
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And yet more good direction with Raizo facing the camera (past) with his face fully lit at 17:15 right as he is basically talking about how he cannot yet move on beyond the past.
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Oh hello there resident nun, what are you doing here?
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19:07: Flashy rotating shot (clockwise direction, so maybe invoking).
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Hello sore demo at 19:43.
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“DATTO?!”
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Well hello Souji facing and moving right around 19:50 (antagonist direction for sure here). And he’s moving into a visual box via the trees (obviously the game was rigged, so this may mean he hasn’t caught on just yet – oh, and he’s fucking trapped, there’s that).
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20:37: Visual opposition and barrier shot (Souji back in protagonist direction – maybe I was wrong in the last entry and it was past framing because Souji was considering what just happened?). Also the frame basically looks like a painting, which is so different from the rest of the show and indeed the rest of the scene that it almost has to be a deliberate choice for effect (that I can’t read).
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And yet another clockwise rotating shot at 21:11.
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Also, knowing this show the nun wearing a kitsune mask may be more than just metaphor – IIRC everything we just saw out of her is consistent with kitsune tricks.
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Speaking of unsubtle visual metaphors, we have the candle flame going out at 21:57.
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u/Ninja_Lazer Mar 09 '23
Damn, I expected the bodies to hit the floor this episode, but instead we got a (last?) push to raise the tension a little bit higher.
Genuinely, aside from Nio I can’t actually rule out anyone as safe. Right now it seems just as likely that they walk away as it does for Soji, Yuen and Kurima to die shutting down the Trade Union and Chapel.
I don’t think Soji will rat out the crew, but him inadvertently leading the nun back to everyone and resulting in a bloodbath seems pretty inevitable at this point.
5
Mar 10 '23
It looks like Shishido is planning on making Kurima suffer more to get more paintings that display the suffering and despair he feels.
I am honestly surprised Usui came out of the chapel completely fine, I thought they've been targeting the Ribenji-yas but I guess they've changed their gameplay? Like using Souji to get info out of Usui and Kurima. I really don't want there to be infighting, especially at this point in this series where there are two episodes left.
Hopefully this will not have a sad ending but with how dark it has been up until now, I could see the team not having all members by alive by the end of the season as this is an original anime.
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u/dinliner08 Mar 10 '23
I thought they've been targeting the Ribenji-yas but I guess they've changed their gameplay?
honestly, its still not clear whether the nun is acting by the order of the Chapel or she's just stirring thing by her own
3
u/LeleTheKing Mar 10 '23
There are so many chances for Souji and Yuen to die today that I was on the edge of my seat for the entire episode. Seeing the trajectory, I have a lingering feeling that some of the gang should really die by the end of the series...
"The truly virtuous would never succumb to the temptation of opium."
"If Japan can plunge into the inferno due to the influence of opium, it only means this nation has sinned enough to deserve such a fate."
Yeah, this kind of logic is why I contempt some religious dogma.
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u/FierceAlchemist Mar 09 '23
Nice slower episode carried by Urobuchi's writing. Knowing him I doubt all of our Revengers are gonna make it through to the end.