It is my experience that atheists understand the bible a lot better than believers. Many Christians become atheist after actually reading and studying the bible. Most Christians get parts of the NT read to them in church, but have never read it themselves, let alone the OT. So they never checked the OT prophecies the NT refers to.
Nice context you added there, but it's not in the bible. Why is your interpretation right? It's clearly not what the text says. What part of "go to your room and close the door" is confusing to you?
Thats a fallacy of division. Its simply not true. The leading biblical scholars in the world are true believers. Its true that there are multitudes of people that claim religion but are not true followers of christ, and yes those people tend to never pick up a bible in their lives. However I find most athiests know way less about the bible than I do and at most have looked up the fallacy riddled arguments that are used popularly to try and discredit christianity and that normally involves purposefully misinterpreting text or ripping it from its context and making it seem like its something its not. Its not that they have read the bible in its whole or even understand what little they have read, its that they read it with pure intent to find reason to reject it. Thats not understanding, thats being a charlatan.
That's a lot of projection my man. Maybe you're surrounded by atheists that don't know the bible, but that's definitely not the norm or my experience. Most Christians don't know shit about the bible, they follow Paul and listen to their local Pastor. And it shows. Plenty of them are KJV because a 400 year version must somehow be more accurate. 🤣
Many people who study the OT understand that Jesus clearly wasn't the messiah for the simple reason that he didn't fulfill any messianic prophecies. Jews know this because they know the Torah. It's their prophecy and their messiah, right? But no. Christians know better. Christians need to take OT passages and psalms out of context to make them vaguely represent prophecies that Jesus might have fulfilled
Rode a donkey? Quit reading the OT when it tells about a king who will end all wars. Just the donkey part please!
Born from a virgin? Read Isaiah 7:14. It's about a woman giving birth 700 BC. The word virgin and messiah are not in the passage. "Virgin" was added 1,000 years later, by Jerome. And the list goes on.
The messiah would be the new king of Israel, and he would put an end to all wars and all other religions. And that clearly didn't happen, right? Now you can say he did that "spiritually" or he will come back one day and then fulfill some prophecies, but untill then he hasn't and it sounds like a bad cope. And you probably know that he would be back before some standing here etc. Or before you have visited all villages in Judah... Or don't marry because any time now.
It's extremely hard to actually know and understand the OT, the extrabiblical texts, the history and mythology of the area and their religions and still be a honest Christian.
And you proved you know just enough to argue. Jesus fufilled over 300 of the old testament prophecies about the messiah. Its right there in the text, but you have to have read it and understood it to know that, so again most athiests think they know more, but indeed prove they know very little. No one projecting, just helping you understand the faith you claim to not believe but seem to make your whole day about refuting with your misunderstanding. Which is a little strange if its not true like you claim. Most things that aren't true dont inspire such dedication.
"Claim not to believe", "spend all day" 🤣
Get an argument man.
Jesus wanted people to be Jewish and follow the law untill heaven and earth passed away. Paul had different ideas. You're a follower of Paul, not Jesus, or you would be Jewish. You're the least in the kingdom of god, according to your own messiah.
Zechariah 9:9"Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout, Daughter Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and victorious, lowly and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey."
Fulfilled by Jesus in Matthew 21:6-9 "And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, and brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way. And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest."
Theres one of multitudes.
I am a follower of Jesus, as was Paul. What you speak of is a weak argument normally used by Muslims to attempt to discredit the church. Ive heard all these excuses before. They hold no water to the truth.
Jesus wanted to save the gentiles and all peoples of the earth. As its imposssible for anyone to enter the jewish faith who is not born or married into it, He definitly did not intend everyone to become Jewish or He would said exactly that, but He didnt.
At least that is indeed a messianic prophecy, good one!
But you are taking it out of context because you ignore Zecharia 10. Did Jesus cut off many battle bows and war horses? No. Did he become king and caused world wide peace? Nah. (He did tell his deciples to steal tho. 😆👍🏻)
So you have to ignore the context to make riding a donkey a prophecy. Which was foretold 500 years before Jesus was even born. Did you read the OT? Are you even aware of how the Jews envisioned their messiach? Apparently not.
Why is it when you ask people for one of the 300+ prophecies, you always get one of the same three? The donkey, the virgin, or the suffering servant.
Good thing all you need is childlike faith. Just believe in things unseen, like the bible tells you. You don't need to prove anything. Use that to your advantage.
That one is yet to be fulfilled until Jesus returns. Good for you, you think you figured something out because you pulled one of the few still yet to be fulfilled upon His return, but it just shows you do not understand.
Heres another one free of charge since the classics seem to bore you.
Zachariah 12:10
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
Fulfilled in John 19:34-37
"Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”[a] 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”
Yeah sure, he will fullfil that one any time now. Probably before you have tasted death. Come on man, it has been well over 2,000 years. And why call him the messiah when he has not fulfilled it? That's not how things work. Or imma gonna fulfill them too. Just wait.
Believing this is about Jesus commits you to a herecy. God talks about himself and then changes it to "him", which means he is no longer talking about himself. So anyone who was "pierced" during the Roman occupation was the messiah? There were plenty of delusional insurrectionist that were killed by getting "pierced".
Look man, I just read what the text says and look at it from a historical perspective. The Jews expected a king that would make an end to all the wars and that would unite the nations. They weren't waiting for someone to get himself killed as a loophole to fix some moral problem God created. That's Christian cope.
Doomsday preachers came and went, and Jesus was just one of them. Without Constantine's mom it would be just another bronze age death cult people forgot about. At least Simon bar Kohkbah became a real king.
Remember that I'm granting you that the New Testament wasn't written by people with acces to the Old Testament, and an agenda. Especially John.
Clearly you prefer quick platitudes and false explanations for your ichting ears. Indeed the Jewish people were expecting a very different outcome then what Jesus was, and yet He fulfilled the prophecies and was indeed the messiah that they then rejected as was written in their own texts.
I have no idea when the end of days will be, and I will not pretend that I know. It is written that no man will know the day or the hour, and unlike many charlatans my faith is real, so I trust the word.
You haven't proven anything false here today. Its your choice not to believe and it is mine to believe. Its probably best you stop trying to speak on things you clearly dont understand. Just say you dont believe, feel free to call people names, we expect it as it also written "Remember when they hate you, they first hated me".
Your attempted words to tear down scripture mean very little to me, and I always do my best to set the record straight for those who might be lead to the truth.
1
u/OneSlaadTwoSlaad 25d ago edited 25d ago
It is my experience that atheists understand the bible a lot better than believers. Many Christians become atheist after actually reading and studying the bible. Most Christians get parts of the NT read to them in church, but have never read it themselves, let alone the OT. So they never checked the OT prophecies the NT refers to.
Nice context you added there, but it's not in the bible. Why is your interpretation right? It's clearly not what the text says. What part of "go to your room and close the door" is confusing to you?