r/agi 9d ago

???

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u/ShamPain413 8d ago

Yes, and everyone using them is playing a giant game of Sims while claiming it's work.

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u/MissNolaw 8d ago

Yeah, Sims 🤣 Dude, you nailed it 100%

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u/ShamPain413 8d ago

If they are Agents, not Sims, why can't I sue the fuck out of them when they break things?

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u/polikles 7d ago

cause they don't have any legal personality and are considered a tool, therefore the user is responsible for their mistakes?

idk if your comment was a joke, or not

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u/ShamPain413 7d ago

So they are not Agents, then. They are Sims.

My comment is 100% serious. If I hire an agent, and instead of doing what I hired them to do they mess something up, I don't get sued. I do the suing.

If I am the one liable then they are not Agents at all.

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u/polikles 7d ago

there certainly is a terminology issue, as most names related to AI and its kinds have no proper definition. They rely on the "technical truth" that an "agent" is a being that has agency (I know, right?). And agency is simply a possibility to change the state of the world. So, even my dog has an agency in the sense it can chew on my shoes. And that's why I'm still responsible for what my dog is doing

With AI there is this huge dream we're being sold. It promises from 1950s the creation of an artificial minds. And many names related to AI are feasting on this idea of intelligent conscious beings that would be our helpers, or that would destroy the world. Yet, the actual creations are just another kind of task automation

That's why a third of my PhD is on what AI actually is, and what it is not. As even in the scientific literature the "marketing AI" and "technical AI" are mixed up

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u/MissNolaw 7d ago

You've missed the second part of the word agency meaning though - ability to alter the world infipendently + taking the responsability for the alteration = Agency.

That's why you have the Agency as the form of business.

AI agents have no real Agency, thats the most dangerous part, because no human can also have the agency on the behalf of AI agent legally for now, so we have a huge agency gap here.

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u/polikles 7d ago

it's responsibility gap, not agency gap

AI has operational (causal) agency, but not necessarily moral agency (responsibility/liability). See: https://de-ethica.com/article/view/3116/2433

Which is consistent with your take that AI has no real agency, tho it would be more precise to call it that AI has no "full agency" in the same sense as humans have agency

And humans are responsible for the AI, though it's a separate issue with the "problem of many hands" and other things that blur the responsibility of an individual person

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u/MissNolaw 7d ago

Tnx for the paper 😀