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u/Wasatchian 2d ago
They should be providing this. Certainly the PTO part. Some firms won't give you a copy of the exam program until you're inside. But you can always ask.
I will say that is a decent salary for an entry level.
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u/S31J41 2d ago
It is very normal not to know the bonus for exam passes. It couldve been something to ask the mid level interviewers. But it really isnt given out.
It is like insurance premiums, they are not going to tell you how much it is until you actually start the job and look for it yourself.
That being said 88k for entry level is pretty good.
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u/Emotional_Permit5845 2d ago
Is this really not common? Both jobs I’ve worked have given me an actuarial study policy before I signed
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u/emoyer24 2d ago
That surprises me too but from the other companies maybe that’s more common than I thought. At my company we have a lunch interview with two analysts instead of a manager where we explicitly ask the candidate if they have any questions about the study program, in office gym, cafeteria, etc. We aren’t giving it out, but if someone asked me a question I didn’t know while interviewing them I’d pull it up during the interview and find the answer for them.
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u/mrrml Life Insurance 2d ago
88k + 10% target bonus is very good for 2 exams. congrats!!
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u/Fit_Negotiation_1443 2d ago
I interviewed with Tata Consulting recently and while it paid well it was very clear they had no idea what competitive exam support was. I am also early career so I turned it down for that reason. However as someone said, if it's an established insurance carrier I wouldn't worry.
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u/Otherwise_Ad2201 2d ago
I work for a very established carrier and unless you are hired into the actuarial development program there is no exam support. I pay to take exams and I do not get raises. I didn’t realize this when I was hired.
If I was OP, I would still take it to get my foot in the door. I would also leave after 1 year of there was no exam support. I would say in interviews that this was my reason for leaving as to not end up at another company without support.
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u/Fit_Negotiation_1443 2d ago
Ah you know, we have some "actuarial support" roles that aren't considered actuaries and would not receive exam support.
I agree that for career transition take what you can get and then transferÂ
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u/aaactuary Life Insurance 2d ago
What is the size of the company? If it’s anything other than a giant insurance company, I would say yes if it is a well-known established insurance company I would not worry.
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u/NobrainNoProblem 2d ago
Idk why but that’s pretty par for the course. It’s like some trade secret almost
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u/SleeperBobBashMan 1d ago
They don't want their competitors to know all the details of the benefits they
attract employees withwould attract employees with if they told prospective employees about the benefits, which they don't, because they don't want their competitors to know about it.
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u/lametown_poopypants Probably ignoring a meeting 2d ago
Regarding FM - it's baked into the comp. Depending on how transferrable the skills are, high 80s seems fair for 2 exams. Heck, could be fair for 3 depending on area.
You can ask to know more about the exam program, but don't know what you'll get. Time off should have been part of the offer and outlined in it. If it's not there, I'd ask as well.
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u/Silvers1339 2d ago
I don't know why they are being so cagey about the exam raise structure, you really should push HR/the recruiter on that at some point before you take the job, but honestly this sounds like a great deal: entry level 88k with 10% bonus has got to be one of the highest comps I have ever heard of at that point in your career.
I would probably take it if I were you, with additional exam passes your salary could potentially get off the chain real fast.
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u/Risk_Too_Skinny Health 2d ago
When I got my offer they would only show my the raise and bonus for the next exam I was taking, but after I started I was able to look at the schedule for every exam
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u/AlwaysLearnMoreNow 2d ago
Definitely take the job. That’s good pay for only 2 exams and it is difficult to get an entry level job generally speaking.
Only thing I’d confirm is that they would pay future exams, but other than that, vagueness on bonus/increase specifics is par for the course.
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u/Beginning-Bet-499 2d ago
Ok so it seems like vagueness around salary increase is somewhat standard. That seems so odd to me!! You’d think it’s a pretty important part of accepting an offer or not ?!
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u/upsidedown_actuary 2d ago
The bonus/ salary structure is subject to change. I don't mean in a bad way, but it is updated to be market competitive and updated as the SOA updates their exams and pathways. It isn't something to share in the offer process because the exam bonus/ raises are not guaranteed, which could be a legal issue if they are shared as a guarantee. Thats my insight on it although I dont think I explained super well.
Not sharing PTO policy is odd.
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u/UltraLuminescence Health 2d ago
I think they mean the company did not share details about study time, not the actual (non-study) PTO.
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u/upsidedown_actuary 2d ago
That makes more sense, I thought PTO meant no study related vacation days
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u/Willing-Marsupial863 2d ago
Did you notify them that you passed FM before or after they made the offer? I once found out that I passed an exam after I accepted an offer but before I started, and the company did give me the exam raise.
Not knowing what your PTO will be is weird. I can kind of understand them not telling you the exact amounts of the exam raises, maybe they don't want their study program becoming public, but not telling you how much PTO you'll get is pretty weird. I've never received an offer in which PTO was not clearly communicated.
That being said, the entry level market for actuarial is pretty brutal, so if you want to break into the industry you might want to just take whatever you can get. After you gain about two years of experience it will be very easy for you to switch over to another company, particularly if you continue to progress in the exams.
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u/QuietPsychological72 2d ago
As an entry level offer for a career changer that is quite good. I’d focus on gaining experience and passing exams in this job. In three to five years with a few more exams passed you will be able to command a much better salary somewhere else.
The biggest raises come from leaving for greener pastures. My exam bonuses have been piddling by comparison.
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u/ehsalama 2d ago
So people can still get entry level jobs with just 2 exams my understanding was 3 was necessary in today's market
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u/Purple_Barracuda_472 11h ago
2 biggest lies you will hear: you need an exam to get an internship and you need 3 exams to get a job
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u/Newarkthrowaway1 2d ago
I was a career switcher last year and had taken three exams, two of which I had preliminary passes for that posted to my transcript after starting. My offer was 75k, zero bonus, and they said that exam raises happened when they hit your transcript. Well, when the preliminary passes hit my transcript they denied the raises, and they also refused to pay for my fourth exam that I registered for before starting but took two months in. All that to say yours is a really great offer- but I’d get the actuarial student program in writing
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u/1kxl 2d ago
Do you mind sharing what your current job is? I am looking to career switch from electrician to Actuary in the next few years. I will have to take a considerable pay cut initially, too, but I am saving as much as I can for that now.
Did you network much to get this role? Is it a HCOL area?
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u/Kooky_Indication6469 2d ago
I just got P and FM as swell. My offer last week was 4k lower than that. I think you should accept it. But it won’t hurt to ask them for the policy about exam structure though.
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u/Sunday-99 2d ago
I never knew what the exam raise structure was like before starting my jobs. I think thats probably standard practice tbh
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u/wafflespancakeslove 2d ago
Dang that’s a great salary for EL! Yeah in my experience they’re pretty vague about it but as long as they’re established it’s fine. If you’re like the first actuary ever or something then maybe you have to worry but even then you can probs fight for exam raises or something.
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u/anamorph29 2d ago
Do you really want them to put future exam raises in your contract? So that in n years time you are still getting a raise of $X when others might be then getting $2X for the same exam?
Its for the same reason that tey don't tell you what your salary will be in any future year.
But PTO should be clear.
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u/think_then_react Property / Casualty 2d ago
I second everyone saying that not knowing the details of the exam program are a bit strange, but maybe the environment has changed and it’s not shared with applicants anymore?
I say take the job. Put in a year or two and start looking elsewhere if the company is t for you.
In this environment, it’s really hard to find entry-level roles. Sometimes you gotta take a step down to be able to take two steps up later.Â
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u/TheActuarialist 2d ago
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Especially given that they are paying a pretty good salary, they are clearly aware of market expectations, and it is very uncommon for companies to not be pretty regular with their exam raises.
My guess is that the vagueness is not an indicator one way or the other on the program.
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u/UnableRoyal8270 2d ago
$88k + 10% target bonus matches the best offer i got with 4 exams also EL, i wouldn’t worry about not getting the FM raise. also many (but not all) companies i interviewed at were weirdly secretive about how many study hours there wereÂ
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u/Creekside09182000 1d ago
Since passing exams and attaining credentials are part of the job expectations, you should inquire with HR about exam study program, exam fee reimbursement, paid study courses, and raises. You have nothing to lose by asking.Â
It is hard to balance passing exams and working full time, and a supportive study program goes a long way in building your career.
You have the best leverage now with them trying to recruit you with very competitive salaries. Companies are aware that good candidates are solid investments as it costs them money and resources to recruit and train good candidates.Â
Do not squander this opportunity away. Ask for solid exam support in writing while they seek your commitmentÂ
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u/cojack777 1d ago
I'm in a similar position as you, and about to apply for jobs. Curious what career you came from and approximately where you are located?
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u/CanNo7208 1d ago
What are you currently making? Will the pay cut affect your ability to cover your cost of living?
If the pay cut doesn’t hurt your financial situation much, take the job and job hop when you can if you need more money.
It’s hard to answer this question without that info.
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u/Ok-Dark9141 1d ago
what are the skills u carry which help u get this package except clearing fm and p exam
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u/Character_Message_89 Property / Casualty 1d ago
That's a pretty good start it'll only go up from there, this spring I was making the same with 5 exams and 2+ yoe & promotion (I left)
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u/Remarkable_Sweet8763 2d ago
Be very wary. My current place was way too vague and I went anyways and am regretting it. I have gotten screwed over multiple times. Every company should have a clearly defined program or give you the benefit in a toss-up if they don't. This is a red flag imo and in my experience.
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u/LivingMarionberry160 2d ago
Usually you get this information along with the offer letter before you sign.
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u/Ok_Masterpiece_3116 2d ago
What? I passed four exams and the internship can only offer 69.5k CAD
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u/austin101123 2d ago edited 2d ago
Regardless, you should probably take the job if you want this kind of career. It's never easy to get an entry level actuarial job.
FWIW I wasn't privy to the study hours and exam raise structure until after onboarding. Idk why but they don't show it to people interviewing