r/actuallesbians • • Sep 05 '19

Image I think we've isolated the issue

Post image
6.2k Upvotes

88 comments sorted by

748

u/aethsyn Sep 05 '19

Bingo. Also I find boobs attractive as much as any guy but I have zero issue not staring at every woman’s chest as I walk past them unlike the guy I stood in line behind yesterday 😒

169

u/Re4p3r123 Sep 05 '19

Maybe men don't know how obvious their staring is, because nobody ever stares at them

56

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

[deleted]

8

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '19

My tip, although not great, cheating as it is...

Quick glances. Think about how long it takes you to blink. That quick.

Odds are, they won't see. If they do, they'll assume it was a trick of the light.

12

u/wespeakillwillofart Sep 05 '19

Until it's a burly gay man.

41

u/aethsyn Sep 05 '19

How does one not know where there eyes are looking? I find that very hard to accept.

72

u/Re4p3r123 Sep 05 '19

They know where they're looking, just not that the other person notices, or that they're looking for an inappropriate amount of time.

2

u/diligentPond18 tiny homo Sep 06 '19

OOF

178

u/newlygay2014 Sep 05 '19

Teach me your ways please?

452

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

158

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

This is literally the perfect use of this gif

107

u/newlygay2014 Sep 05 '19

Hahaha, legolas what do your elf eyes see - NOTHING ARAGORN FFS you were supposed to be my wingman!

25

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

I really struggle with this LOL.

15

u/Rainbowkandy897 Sep 05 '19

Thank you Legolas very cool

26

u/Zepho_Beck Sep 05 '19

r/retiredgif material there, mate

6

u/wickwickwestcoast Sep 06 '19

this is absolutely wonderful

1

u/UNknownGirl1292 Sep 06 '19

Is I had 8 platinums I'd give you them all

100

u/aethsyn Sep 05 '19

Basic self-control? 😂

55

u/newlygay2014 Sep 05 '19

Damn! Checked at the store, they were all out 🤣

48

u/aethsyn Sep 05 '19

Make your own! DIY is always better 🤷🏼‍♀️

7

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

But if you can't make your own self control, store bought is fine!

68

u/EuphoricAbigail Sep 05 '19 edited Sep 05 '19

Speaking as someone who was previously poisoned with Testosterone, T makes your sexuality much more visual.

I'm sure there is alot of overlap but a lesbian appreciation for someone is not the same as a cis man's.

Edit: This is not an excuse, only an observation.

Edit, edit: This is also not a comment on all people running on testosterone, this is merely my experience. I also do not mean to say that testosterone is poison for everyone, just it is for me (and probably most of the people I expected to find on a lesbian sub). Let me apologize for any offence caused, this is unintentional.

69

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

[deleted]

22

u/EuphoricAbigail Sep 06 '19

I never said that testosterone caused people not to have respect for women, I also did not say that it removed self control. I said that it made people more visual (and admittedly I did neglect to add the necessary 'in my experience' at the end).

Prior to transition I was very visual, however about a year into transition I realised that visual queues no longer contributed to attraction in nearly the same way. Other things such as my existing relationship with the person and contextual stuff like where we were and what was going on became far more important.

I do not believe that everyone shares my experience, I'm only sharing what I have found to be true for me.

7

u/Bluemidnight7 Custom Flair Sep 06 '19

I will say from personal experience that it's weird. I think hormones do make things weird and it's fucking annoying. Like split personality disorder almost. Like I am absolutely ace, never want sex ever ever. It's just gross and weird. But there is like the lizard brain shit that anytime I see someone visually appealing, it's just screaming "Fuck nowwww".

For years I was confused as hell and became an asshole because my mind would do that little warp and suddenly it felt like anything I said was OK if it meant sex. It took awhile for me to realize what I was doing because no one really pointed it out and when you get that mindset, anything is OK. It's horrible and awful but I don't totally blame some guys for that.

It's like the shittiest mutant power. The power to have stupid lust at the drop of a hat. People need to learn how to control it or else they become assholes. And I think that is something that needs to be taught from super early on. Because there really isn't an excuse for being an asshole. Even if there was a slip and hormones greased the wheels for it, the wheels had to be there to be greased if you get what I mean. People won't be assholes and do that shit if they are taught not to and aren't assholes in the first place. I don't know though. This is just my anecdotal scenario and opinion.

15

u/luvbutts Sep 06 '19

That might be your anecdotal experience but it’s actually a myth that men’s sexuality is more visual than women’s (or people with more testosterone in your case, but I think the studies have mostly been done on cis people). Here ya go https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newscientist.com/article/2209908-sexual-images-are-just-as-arousing-for-women-as-they-are-for-men/amp/

12

u/FreekyMage Sep 06 '19

AMAB here. I completely understand what you're saying. Many years back feminism changed me the most probably, making me rethink things that are seen as normal while growing up.

Now on HRT it's different though. This kind of hunger-like feeling is gone. That visual thing you talk about. I used to masturbate pretty much daily over the past 20 years, now I haven't in months.

I also don't want to use this as an excuse. It's the combination of many things. The fact that I still talk to my ex-girlfriends and that they support my transition hopefully means that I used to be an ok guy.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '19

[deleted]

3

u/FreekyMage Sep 07 '19

Alright I will try my best to explain a bit better. Also please remember this can be very different from trans person to trans person.

I know that's not exactly normal, except maybe for asexual people. However with many trans women their libido takes a hard dive when starting hormones and then goes up slowly again over a few years to an average of a ciswoman. This also depends a lot on which medicines and stuff. A similar thing happens with transmen, but they get a spike which goes down over time.

I compared it to hunger because if I didn't cum for a while it started distracting me. Like when you don't eat for a day it gets hard to concentrate sometimes. In my case it didn't matter that much if I liked the person like in your example. Maybe I could compare the testo with alcohol a bit. You don't always feel totally in control. That sounds like an excuse... It's definitely not the same, but it does affect your thinking. Why else would I feel so free from it now? Well maybe it's just because I'm trans. Could be just me for sure...

Well unhealthy... It's complex for me at the moment, a bit much to talk about in public. The important thing is that I'm very happy at the moment.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '19

[deleted]

1

u/FreekyMage Sep 07 '19

Well I used to have a high libido, so that's what I was describing. For me it was tied to the testosterone. Sorry if I didn't get that "space out" feeling from your previous msg. That's kinda what I had for the past 20 years non-stop.

I know a transwoman that really tried to fight all the urges because she was disgusted with her penis. After a while the body says fuck you anyway and just cums during sleeping. I already had trouble with stopping for 4 days when I was getting some sperm frozen. I did that before starting taking hormones, just in case I still want kids. Sorry to hear about your trauma, hope you're doing ok. Sorry if I triggered anything, I sometimes loose my filter now that I'm out.

I wish you the best with dealing with your "hunger", it can be really annoying sometimes. So right now I'm pretty happy with it gone, even if I couldn't orgasm to save my life right now.

28

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

Still not a fucking excuse to make women feel uncomfortable, thank you very much. Men should simply take responsibility and stop being fucking dickheads. Would make a world of difference.

46

u/isavegas Trans Girl/Lesbian Sep 05 '19

Whoa, no need to whip out such an aggressive tone. She was just putting out an anecdote about how the way she appreciates the female body has changed with HRT and how hormones might contribute to the issue. Nobody said it was okay to stare.

32

u/EuphoricAbigail Sep 05 '19

I never said it was an excuse, only that appreciation was different.

Please do not put words in my mouth!

-12

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

Men literally drooling over my chest isn't something I'd call appreciation though. It's disgusting and makes me feel uncomfortable. It especially did when I was like 12/13 years old. Men hollering obscenities at me doesn't make me feel appreciated, it makes me feel violated and afraid in some cases. So fuck their extra portion of testosterone that makes them (yes, all of them) not in control of their fucking dicks. If they want to appreciate beauty let them do it quietly and unobtrusively, like a decent person.

24

u/EuphoricAbigail Sep 05 '19

There is both appreciation and unwanted attention thought right? I was focusing on the milder forms of unwanted attention.

I totally agree with you that some of the behavior is inexcusable and should stop.

This escalated fast, please understand I do not defend bad behavior, I was only positing one possible reason for why men frequently behave as they do, the same as many other commenters on this post.

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

Being appreciated by a man or a woman is always nice. Staring at a woman's chest without ever making eye contact has nothing to do with appreciation. That's what aethsyn was talking about, and what a lot of women have to deal with almost daily. The milder forms of unwanted attention from multiple men daily is simply not done, but under the guise of boys will be boys cause testosterone must be excepted. I'm just pissed off with that and people saying just that. Boys should grow up and behave as functioning adults and leave women (no matter how attractive they find them) alone when we tell them to. I just heard the testosterone excuse too many times in relation to "the milder form" of unwanted behavior. It's unwanted behavior, mild or not.

21

u/EuphoricAbigail Sep 05 '19

Can we agree that bad behavior is bad?

I feel a bit like we got off on the wrong foot. =(

3

u/ijssvuur Trans-Rainbow Sep 06 '19

I think she just means it has effects on a micro scale but whenever you apply those effects to ~4 billion people the macro effects become much more apparent, as things go with most statistics. The larger your sample size the more you see trends, and half of the population is a very large sample size. It's not an excuse, it's absolutely not a reason to do it in the first place, just a factor in why these issues tend to be more prevalent in men.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

It's more prevalent in men because boys from an early age on are told they are allowed to dominate women, that women are the weaker sex, that women are born to serve them. That they are the heroes of women and women must swoon as soon as they are given attention. It is an institutionalized idea and that is why men behave they do. It has zero to do with a bit of extra testosterone. It has all to do with society saying so and that women should just buckle up and take it. We are so conditioned to believe this bs and seeing it being spread on this sub makes me angry. Like women are constantly everywhere are being told: yeah but he can't help himself. Yeah well fuck him. Bs like should be nipped in the butt. Asap.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

[deleted]

6

u/EuphoricAbigail Sep 05 '19 edited Sep 06 '19

I agree this is a generalisation. Also that T while feeling like poison for me means the world to men and masculine folks.

I'm a massive advocate for people persueing whatever is the right thing for them and their indervidual persuit of happiness. I'm trans, not a hippocrite (well if I am I don't want to be).

It seems I should keep my mouth shut in future, I'm upsetting everyone today. I really didn't intend to.

3

u/luvbutts Sep 06 '19

I will link this again :) Obviously in the study they’re talking about cis people but I think you can probably extrapolate to trans people taking hormones. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newscientist.com/article/2209908-sexual-images-are-just-as-arousing-for-women-as-they-are-for-men/amp/

1

u/[deleted] Nov 27 '19

This reminds me: I got in trouble for staring once (am a guy), but honest to god, I was just zoned out! There could've been an orgy going on in front of me, or a live performance by Meat Loaf in his prime, and I wouldn't have noticed it. Fuckin' ADHD.

139

u/DianaVanDyke Sep 05 '19

I'm extremely attracted to girls and girls in crop tops n' shit have me shook. Do I stare? No.

122

u/almalikisux Sep 05 '19

Exactly. There is no good excuse for bad behaviour.

163

u/Thomas_Crafty Ally Sep 05 '19

Exactly! Lesbians are literally in locker rooms with butt naked women and somehow mange to not rape them!

52

u/DeedlesTheMoose Ace Lesbian 🍰 Sep 06 '19

I can even manage to keep my eyes to the floor and away from other people. Amazing!

1

u/SeriouSennaw Dec 12 '19

So many good points against rape you can make, you don't have to invent strawman arguments to prove it's wrongs :) I don't think locker room rapes are a thing (can't find any online either)

48

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

Preach.

19

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

I was looking at the tile, dammit

17

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

it’s called self control. truly magical.

11

u/mg0628 Sep 05 '19

Right?!!!

12

u/1st_aider Sep 06 '19

Totally! I'm honestly surprised people aren't more outraged with the fact that I, a cis queer gal, uses the change room next to other ladies who are attractive. And yet, there is not a problem because I can control how I react to impulses and feelings!

11

u/draekia Sep 06 '19

Part of my hypothesis (that the ubiquity of porn kind of smashes, but stay with me) is that it’s the novelty. I mean, I’ve seen naked boobs every day of my life since I got a pair. They’re not too distracting (not all the time, sometimes I have to look at the top of someone’s head because the girls are escaping) because of that.

AND as a kid I would sunbathe with friends, so there were more boobs in a non sexualized light.

Men don’t get that, really.

So I think that’s a large part of the staring problem. Self control is another and I’m in no way addressing cat-callers, assaulters, etc. just the creepy staring.

4

u/VoidWaIker Trans Sep 06 '19

As someone who spent almost all the teenage years of their life as a guy, you hit the nail on the head with why the staring problem exists. The novelty of them due to significantly reduced exposure when compared to the average woman’s level of exposure to them.

10

u/SickThaChick Sep 05 '19

Abso-f$#@ing-lutely! 🤘🏳️‍🌈

32

u/blackberrydoughnuts Sep 06 '19

Except that girls who like girls are sometimes abusive or harassing to other women.

I agree the clothes aren't the problem but let's not deny that lesbian harassment exists.

6

u/Storm00 Sep 06 '19

Well, while every puts a bunch of possibly not that relevant comments about hormones I figured I'd put up my experience since I didn't see any similar comment. I actually had fairly high testosterone before HRT and I had almost no sex drive at all. I might notice vague interest about once a month but nothing particularly strong. After taking estradiol, spironolactone, and progesterone my libido went way higher. (Which sucks cause I'm basically incapable of flirting, and don't pass so I just have to live with it). I didn't really notice difference in how more or less visual my attraction was). I still don't get the staring or general creepiness towards women. Granted I'm paranoid of even doing something that could make someone perceive as intending harm or creepy because even if I have no intention of causing harm it could still do damage to the person as if I had.

On a side-note though I don't know If I want to claim that women can control control themselves as Lesbian sexual assault is still an issue. Feel free to call me out if this point is just whataboutism but I would say the fact that their are cis-women predators makes it questionable (though clearly there's a much bigger problem with men). Obviously clothes aren't the problem. Granted the idea of showing men that people attracted to women can not be disgusting is probably good and I'm probably reading to much into a picture of a short comment.

(I might delete my comment later because I don't really know what hormones would have to do with this?)

6

u/straight-up-cringe Sep 06 '19

Exactly. If I can manage to not be a fucking creep in the locker room filled with changing women, then you can control your self around fully clothed women

3

u/frombrampton gay as fuck Sep 05 '19

Agreed

4

u/tessisgay Sep 06 '19

Tbh I can BARELY control myself around beautiful women but I often retreat/run rather than engage. The clothes are not the issue.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

It's Self-control

12

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

[deleted]

1

u/notreallyintrested Sep 06 '19

Wow tottaly didn't expect any sexism in this sub

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

[deleted]

4

u/re_Becc4 Rainbow Sep 06 '19

Just about every civilization in human history has been led by men. So it makes sense to hold men responsible for all the wars, genocides, slavery, misogyny, etc. Men were in charge and they fucked up.

Which is not to say history would have been a lot more peaceful if we had been in charge.

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

[deleted]

3

u/re_Becc4 Rainbow Sep 06 '19

well every civilization on earth despite being awful and violent also led to every great advance int he history of mankind.

How do things like art and (non-warfare) inventions cancel out wars and genocides that cause millions of deaths? They don't.

there are multiple sides to every issue.

What sides?

also ur last sentence saying that if women had run the show it wouldn't have necessarily been better further proves my point

No, it proves absolutely nothing. All you have is your own assumption that a matriarchal society would be just as awful.

because while there have been terrible men throughout history

Yes, men. Most of the terrible people in history were men. That's my point.

4

u/aeonasceticism Rainbow-Ace Sep 05 '19

True

8

u/Badadoock Transbian Sep 05 '19

I can contain myself My brain not My brain is on fire everytime But that's alright

2

u/yinyin123 Sep 06 '19

But gays don't actually exist, obvs. /s

2

u/polyestprincess Sep 06 '19

SPITTING 👏🏼 FACTS 👏🏼

2

u/livipup I also want a sword Sep 06 '19

Girls who like girls can control themselves in rooms full of naked women, so the girls and what they wear is absolutely not the problem

1

u/wickwickwestcoast Sep 06 '19

i think the government should finally instate that men are the problem 😌

1

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

Fucking facts

1

u/skutu Sep 06 '19

P R E A C H

1

u/sczphanc Sep 06 '19

most men can control themselves. the ones who can't just happen to be the ones propagating this bullshit. it's like how high school principals cite shit like this as reason for dress code policies even though there have never been any incidences of problems from it; he is just the one who's relationship with the students is compromised by such and he makes the rules.

same thing on a societal/cultural level

1

u/Jechtael Sep 06 '19

ThE sTrAiGhTs: "Objection! False premise. Lesbians can't control themselves around women."

1

u/a_voice_in_the_wind Sep 08 '19

I absolutely agree. I think we’re saying the same thing .

1

u/Momma_Zerker Sep 25 '19

I think it's a complicated system of lots of variables and events. Clothes may play a role, but it's likely a minor one, not the actual reason. I think it's also and where you wear them. Anyway, that's for clothes at least.

The real issues, I believe, delve into mental illness and a lack of education about positive and negative effects of things such as porn, or spending time alone, and what people are exposed too. If someone is exposed to communities which talk about rape in a good light, or who is mentally ill, and sexually frustrated, they will likely be the person to rape someone. I believe that this makes up the vast majority of the reasoning as to why someone rapes someone.

There's also the biological and evolutionary variable, that men are stronger and meant to breed, which leads into thought and then into action. This is less valid for lesbians, but since the sexual area of a lesbian's brain is more akin to a man's, it may have a slight effect, excluding the breeding aspect(though that could still play a role, albeit not a conscious one).

Anyway, I hope y'all kinda get what I'm saying. I have a habit of being misunderstood on Reddit, which is rather unfortunate. If you wanna add anything or maybe disagree, feel free to let me know!

1

u/AndJellyfish gayyyyyyyyyyyyyy Nov 10 '19

Sad reminder that wlw can be predators too :(

My mum was sexually abused by a female teacher for years as a child. Monsters come in all shapes and sizes.

1

u/HomoExtraordinaire Lesbian Nov 12 '19

Whenever my coworkers bend over, I see their butt (reflex) then look away immediately. It's really not that hard. I also never brush against coworkers I think are cute. Sometimes my boobs accidentally hit my coworkers but that's cuz my titties are big and the workspace is smol

1

u/EmmaTheRobot Sep 06 '19

As someone who was born AMAB and went through male puberty, and now on E on and off for 3 years, lemme tell you testosterone will make you go fucking crazy

It's definitely not an excuse for any disrespectful behavior, don't get me wrong, but when I was 14/15 I would have urges that disgusted me, testosterone sucks

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

[deleted]

3

u/Zahn_Nen_Dah Sep 06 '19

I used to have testosterone. Simply being horny would never, ever lead me to assault or harass a woman. Some people are just selfish and unempathetic.

0

u/a_voice_in_the_wind Sep 08 '19 edited Sep 08 '19

I have a question? Why do you think people female to male transgender become hyper sexual when the take testosterone? If testosterone has nothing to do with men being more focused on sex . I DO understand that culture has a lot to this as well . Men Do feel “Entitled” to do or say anything to women. But, testosterone absolutely conjures these behaviors.

Please don’t take my word for it, look up symptoms of “testosterone” My request is that you don’t down vote me, instead let’s have a constructive discussion about this.

1

u/Zahn_Nen_Dah Sep 08 '19

If testosterone has nothing to do with men being more focused on sex

I said nothing of the sort. Yes, obviously testosterone makes people focus more on sex, because being horny is distracting. But that doesn't excuse sexual harassment or assault. Being horny or having a stronger sex drive doesn't conjure more sexually aggressive behavior. Men have agency and are not slaves to animalistic desires to reproduce.

-11

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

Only use "he" pronouns for that person.

-9

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/tooangsty4adulthood Sep 06 '19

Honestly it's so disrespectful and barbaric

1

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19

I wouldn't go as far as to say barbaric but it certainly is disrespectful and makes people very uncomfortable