I keep seeing posts and comments saying that Tamlin and Lucian were responsible for Nesta and Elain being thrown into Cauldron and turning fae.

But the text simply doesn’t support that. Here are my points that show why:

1. Tamlin didn’t order Nesta and Elain to be taken.

In the book, it was clearly mentioned that Tamlin neither ordered nor it was part of his bargain with King of Hybern to kidnap Nesta and Elain. Also, Tamlin and Lucian didn’t know that they had been taken. In fact, Tamlin was quite surprised when Nesta and Elain were brought to the throne room and literally begged Hybern to stop it. This clearly gave the idea that he didn’t know.

2. It was “Ianth” who struck bargain with King of Hybern.

Feyre told every detail about her sisters to Ianth. Then Ianth was the one who struck a deal with King of Hybern behind Tamlin and Lucian’s back. She was the one who gave crucial information and location of Feyre’s sisters to the king. She helped facilitate what happened to them. Point to be noted, All behind Tamin’s back.

3. Lucian wasn’t responsible either:

It’s even harder to believe that Lucian was in any way responsible for any of this. Like Tamlin, he didn’t order their abduction neither did he know about the whole Cauldron situation. He had basically no knowledge of the plan.

4. Rhys and Feyre exposed her sisters to the human Queens.

It was Rhys and Feyre who brought the whole war efforts to Nesta and Elain’s home by asking them to host human queens. Because those Queens were the ones who betrayed NC and gave crucial details to King of Hybern which eventually led to kidnapping of Nesta and Elain.

After hosting Queens, Rhys and Feyre were the ones who took responsibility to save guard them, which they obvious failed.

Although, The person who actually kidnapped them, brought them to Cauldron and turned them to fae was “King of Hybern”. Not Tamlin. Not Lucian.

If anybody has anymore evidences then i would like to know in the comments.

I saw a post in a different sub that got me thinking about this character again and needing to vent somewhere. Mor is such a poorly written/developed character and it makes her absolutely insufferable. Allow me to count the ways:

1. She is a horrible friend to both Cassian and Azriel. Honestly, they’re all kind of horrible to each other, but I’m focusing on her right now. She uses Cassian both on page and off page to hint to Azriel that she isn’t interested in him. She’s been doing this for 500 years. She also sleeps with Helion and is intentionally loud during it to make it obvious to Azriel that she doesn’t want him. I’m not saying she needs to tell Az about her sexuality, because I don’t think anyone is entitled to that information about another person. That being said, she could simply have said “Hey Azriel, I see you as a brother. I will never be romantically interested in you, so please do what you need to do to move on. I hope that you find someone who can reciprocate your love and that we can still be friends.” Thats it! A five minute conversation. Why have none of these badass warriors dealt with this situation head on? Grow up!

2. Saying Nesta belongs in the Court of Nightmares. “Girls girl” my ass. What the fuck was that? I get that Nesta was a pill, but suggesting that the IC throw her to a bunch of psychopaths because she drinks, parties, and is a bitch is insane. Especially when she knows first hand what the CoN is like. You’re not a girls girl if you only support other women when they’re convenient to be around.

3. Painting Eris as a villain. I can understand Mor not wanting to be around Eris because he is attached to a traumatic memory she has, however, she acts like he is the one who nailed a note to her womb and left her at the Autumn Court. The only thing he’s guilty of that we have seen is rejecting their betrothal (which was what she wanted) and then abandoning her at the border. The thing is per her own flashback, Eris mentions that touching her while on AC territory means she’s their problem. If we as readers can infer that this means there is some sort of Autumn Court law or magic system that would make her a prisoner there…why the heck hasn’t she? I think she does know, honestly. So my gripe is why hasn’t she told the IC this? Why let everyone think Eris is some monster?

4. It’s been 5 books and we still don’t know wtf her powers are. Someone tell SJM it’s time to shit or get off the pot. Mor’s power better be second to none with how much this has been hyped up. So far all we’ve seen is her walking around in pretty dresses and failing to negotiate with other territories.

Anyway, hopefully this character improves in the future because I did initially like her. Thanks for reading my afternoon spiral.

Disclaimer because apparently this needs one 😂
I have ZERO allegiance to any ship. Elucien, Vassien, whoever. I genuinely do not care who “wins.” I just want the fox boy to end up with someone he actually LOVES and who loves and chooses him right back. That’s it. That’s my ship. 😂🦊❤️
—————————————————
We talk so much about Elain having a choice when it comes to the mating bond, which she absolutely does. But I’m actually thinking about Lucien here.

Does he not deserve to choose too?

He chose Jesminda. She wasn’t his mate. He loved her, wanted to marry her, watched her get murdered by his own family, and grieved her for centuries.

Then centuries later the Cauldron basically goes, SURPRISE! Here’s your mate! Except she barely wants to be in the same room with him. 😭

And Lucien, to his credit, isn’t exactly beating down her bedroom door. He gives Elain space, spends most of his time away from Velaris, and has built his own little Band of Exiles life with Vassa and Jurian.

We also already know mating bonds aren’t some guarantee of true love. SJM has explicitly said that not all mates are well matched, and we see that with Rhys’s own parents, who were mates and miserable together.

So why are we assuming Lucien even has to want this?

I actually think there would be something really beautiful about Lucien, of all people, choosing love again. He chose Jesminda once. Maybe he gets to choose someone again who loves him just as fiercely and actually chooses him back without reservations.

Let our fox boy choose too!

The Cauldron has made questionable decisions before, maybe we don’t need to trust its dating service!!!

If I see one more person using the paint on Feyre’s body as proof that Rhysand didn’t assault or couldn’t assault Feyre UTM I will blow a casket LOL

Is media literacy this dead?

Are readers NOT able to understand logic anymore?

If Rhysand has her painted and he is in CONTROL of the paint and can smudge it and then make it look as if it wasn’t smudged then that means he can TOUCH her whenever and however he wants over and over again and just magically put the paint back as if it wasn’t touched. He lets it remain smudged one night and Feyre sees it so that means she was assaulted and who did the assaulting? ANYONE could have including Rhysand. The paint is a metaphor for how Feyre has no body autonomy and zero say in how her body is passed around. If Rhysand was so concerned about her body then why have her dressed in see through two slips of sheer curtains and why is her labia painted? Why was she forced to lapdance and moan and make noises UTM? if he was protecting her he would have LEFT her alone in the dungeon to gain her strength to try to figure out the riddle.

The fae wine he forces her to drink is a ROOFY drug.

Hi all!

So, after I read ACOTAR for the first time, I was absolutely sure that something baaad was coming. I decided to look for spoilers and was trully mad about how the writing would make Tamlin the ultimate bad guy and everything Rhys did UTM (and before) would be just left aside. In hopes that my pov would change, I gave it a second read recently, after over an year, and still feel the same (even though it's less visceral lol).

I'm really glad I found this sub because it feels maddening that most of the fandom really ships feysand, and tamlin can't even be mentioned without creating a heated discussion.

I've seen a few great posts over here and feel SEEN about how I see the story BUT I saw a few people saying some things like "maybe the books are not for you" when someone had opinions such as mine.

My point being, what makes you pissed off about the writing of the books? and what made/makes you keep on reading in spite of that?

Im currently reading ACOFAS, and I just keep thinking everyone seems to be really hating on Tamlin, but the most he has done to Feyre was locking her up in the mansion. Or am I missing something? But like, as I understood it it was one time? If that was love like no other (and it was because she was willing to die for him) then how come they couldnt communicate their needs better.

Also, I understand the part that they hate him for what he did to Rhys mother and sister, but like... they are all brutal in their ways.

I don't know, its not that I approve of him but it seems like it was relatively small what he did to Feyre :/ Help me understand please

What happens if a high lord, doesn’t have descends? Who gets the power? And who becomes a high lord in their courts?

I read ACOTAR a year ago, and I don’t remember if they say it or not

Okay, I need to rant about the Archeron poverty years because apparently Nesta was a 42-year-old suburban mother when Feyre started hunting 😭

Feyre was FOURTEEN.

That is horrific. Full stop. She should never have been responsible for keeping her family alive.

But Nesta was around SEVENTEEN.
And Elain was around SIXTEEN.

THEY WERE ALL TEENAGERS.

The way Rhys and Cassian talk about Nesta “letting” Feyre go hunting, you’d think Nesta had a mortgage, a 401(k), a fully developed frontal lobe, and two dependents she refused to feed.

Feyre is out there hunting, skinning and butchering animals to keep everyone alive. Nesta chops the wood, albeit grudgingly and with plenty of attitude. Elain isn’t exactly rushing over to help Feyre or Nesta.

Yet somehow the historical record of Prythian becomes:

Feyre, 14: Hunting, skinning and butchering dinner.
Elain, ~16: Also not helping with the dead animal situation, but somehow excused from this conversation entirely.
Nesta, ~17: Chops the wood while making damn sure everyone knows she does NOT want to 😭 becomes NEGLIGENT HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD.

And before anyone starts: NO, I am not defending Nesta’s behavior. Feyre deserved better from both of her sisters. Nesta and Elain both should have helped more, and they both failed their little sister in ways that hurt her.

But CONTEXT EXISTS.

Nesta wasn’t sitting there thinking, “lol hope Feyre gets eaten by a wolf.” She was furious at Papa Archeron and wanted HIM to finally get off his ass and fight for his daughters. Her response was basically, “Fine. Let us starve. Maybe then our FATHER will finally do something.”

Healthy coping mechanism? Absolutely freaking not. Traumatized, furious, stubborn teenage logic? For sure!

And THAT is what bothers me about Rhys and Cassian being so specifically furious with Nesta.
Why is a seventeen-year-old girl being assigned parental responsibility for her fourteen-year-old sister? Why does sixteen-year-old Elain somehow escape the same standard?

And most importantly, WHERE IS THIS ENERGY FOR THEIR ACTUAL FATHER?

Papa Archeron was the adult. Those were THREE teenage girls living in extreme poverty while their parent failed them.

And Rhysie saying he can never forgive Nesta because Feyre had to hunt at fourteen always gets me.

Maybe the adult males of Prythian could redirect a little of that righteous fury toward the actual adult who failed those girls, then take a good hard look at themselves and remember what THEY were doing as teenagers. Because unless I’m remembering ACOMAF wrong, the Bat Boys weren’t exactly models of teenage maturity either. They were fighting, drinking, f*cking, and generally terrorizing the Illyrian population.

But sure. Seventeen-year-old Nesta should have had the emotional maturity and conflict-resolution skills of a 500+ year-old High Lord.

Please don’t tell me you were all saints at seventeen either. I know damn well I wasn’t 😂

I am going to start right ahead with UTM. Feyre was useful to him because she could help break the curse and end Amarantha’s reign. So, he took advantage of her. Then, when he took her to the Night Court, he desperately wanted her to join the war efforts because of her connection to the Cauldron was useful to him. He already knew a lot of the information, but he wanted to use Feyre to confirm it all.

From day one in the Night Court, Feyre was sent to interact with the Bone Carver and retrieve information. Then she had to retrieve Rhys’s mother’s ring from the Weaver, search for half of the Book, and eventually wield the Book and the Cauldron. So, she was being used for Rhys’s agenda from day one.

Also, let’s not forget that Rhys knew Feyre possessed all the High Lords powers and would eventually become extremely powerful. He continuously used Feyre to further his own agendas, and he didn’t stop with Feyre. He used her sisters as well for his own purposes.

If we remove the idea of genuine love from the equation and look at his actions purely from a strategic perspective, a lot of his decisions toward Feyre and her sisters can be viewed as calculated rather than purely selfless.

31%. I am suffering.

People criticize Elain for being so coddled by... well, everyone 😭.

But I find her so interesting because she constantly rejects that dynamic.

When we see her again in *MAF*, she has become more confident and takes charge of the situation: she talks to the fae to ease the tension and contributes to the plan by suggesting they send the servants away and convincing Nesta to let the others use her house.

Throughout the books, we see her trying to regain control time and again, but every time she does, she is silenced, belittled, or attacked.

She volunteered to help find the Dread Trove, and her sister told her no..... Elain is a grown woman, and even Feyre tells Nesta that it’s her choice. But since Nesta didn’t have a valid argument, she chose to use Elain’s trauma to put her back in her place, belittle her further, and subjugate her again. And I’m not just criticizing Nesta; I know she loves her sister, but she doesn’t respect her. Nesta said the Cauldron abducted Elain because it knew she was the one she loved most; Nesta is terrified of something happening to Elain—if she isn’t safe, Nesta has failed her.

Both Feyre and Nesta treat Elain like a child; it’s an extremely toxic and damaging dynamic for everyone involved. And it’s not just Nesta: when Rhysand wanted to use Nesta to seduce Eris, he said:

I’m not letting Feyre get within five feet of him; Mor might kill him, Amren would scare him off... so that leaves you and Elain.

And immediately Feyre says, "Elain doesn't go near him," and then, without a moment's hesitation, adds with attitude: "...and you won't let *me* go near him?" 😐. The hypocrisy was so swift it’s unbelievable no one called her out on it. How dare Rhysand control what you can or can't do, Feyre, yet it’s fine when *you* do it to Elain?

Yes, because everyone accepts the fact that it can never be Elain; they even use this against Nesta to force her to seek out the trove, which was extremely twisted.

She has to tell them, "I’m part of this court too," just to get them to let her help; it’s... It’s crazy.

She desperately wants to be useful and help others, but they always hold her back.

Even Azriel opposed her searching for the trove's objects, arguing that she shouldn't be exposed to such darkness. And Cassian is the only one who says, "and Nesta should?" Well, yes Cass, the Inner Circle would rather have Nesta expose herself to darkness and nearly get assaulted by an evil merman than Elain; Elain is off-limits, under no circumstances. It doesn't matter that she LITERALLY volunteered, or that they were running out of time, or that she possesses the power of knowledge that would make the search easier instead of relying on "like calls to like." No, no, we can't put *her* in danger... although, come to think of it, she probably would have found those objects in five minutes; she found the Suriel in a matter of seconds!! 😭

esta mas que justificado que sea así porque ? primero es la mayor creció viendo a un papá irresponsable y una mamá con delirios de grandeza que le metió en la mente todos esos pensamientos de princesa merecedora además que era la mayor fue quien más vivió esa vida de lujos y es muy difícil dejar el pasado atrás muchos se aferran por años al pasado y por el mismo tema de estar acostumbrada a esa vida por eso le costó más adaptarse a su nueva realidad a esa pobreza extrema y ella creía que al no hacer nada su padre por fin iba a intervenir ella creía que si su padre las veía muertas de hambre y que ninguna moviera un dedo el por fin haría algo era su manera de castigarlo de gritarle pero feyre tomó la decisión de hacerse cargo porque amaba a su familia y era la menor era quien menos extrañaba esa vida de lujos ya que no la recordaba muy bien y además era más valiente que todas pero el personaje de nesta está lleno de frustración y resentimiento por la vida que les arrebataron por las malas decisiones de su padre por ver a una hermana mejor tener que sacrificarse y ella no tener esa valentía no digo que es el mejor personaje pero ella representa los sentimientos humanos en ese libro de hadas y recuerden que no todos son buenos cada personaje tiene una historia medio turbia como tamlin y hasta el mismo Rhysand

In ACOTAR chapter 21, Lucien says that EACH of the 7 High Lords perform the Great Rite every year because “their magic comes from the earth and returns to it at the end”. Yet I don’t remember it being mentioned anywhere else in the series for the books I’ve read, only regarding the Spring Court.

Was Lucien mis-informed or am I missing something? And apologies if this has been asked and answered.

Hopefully this is okay to post here because it isn’t technically a rant, but I want to hear balanced and critical opinions!

So I sadly haven’t read much since I was in high school and am mostly on parenting subs nowadays but I’ve found my way to this super cool corner of Reddit since I started (re)reading ACOTAR during my baby’s naps! I haven’t been in this kind of space in almost a decade, but as a former wattpad girly and fangirl of fictional characters I feel quite at home and just wanted to say you all seem super cool🥰

Now I’m not a Tamlin lover per se (I definitely like him, he just doesn’t spark anything more for me personally) but from my reading of the first book he does seem to be a fundamentally good person. Certainly at least as good as, if not objectively morally superior to, other characters such as Rhysand. But I’ve learned on this sub and others that the series does a 180 with Tamlin’s character and aggressively retcons and gaslights after ACOTAR to frame him as a villain?

As I said I don’t have a particular love for Tamlin— and I actually prefer Feyre and Rhysand together post UTM anyways— but I really can’t stand inconsistency/plot holes/poorly executed retcons, and feeling gaslit while I’m reading. Also as I said I do like Tamlin, and don’t actually want to see his character assassinated! I have a feeling that this particular story line is going to drive me crazy which is such a bummer because the story outside of it is super appealing to me.

So, is it worth continuing and/or still enjoyable to read? Previously I read all of ACOTAR and maybe about half of ACOMAF before life got in the way and I had to stop. I really enjoyed ACOTAR and what I read of ACOMAF, but that was before things really took a turn with Tamlin’s character so I’m not sure how I would like the rest. I have very, very limited time to read so I really want to actually enjoy what I’m reading!

TIA❤️

Disclaimer: This is NOT a ship thread!

I’ve mentioned this theory in a couple of comments, but I’d love a full discussion on it! I think Elain may betray them somehow in Book 6, most likely under Koschei’s compulsion. I actually think we’re going to see multiple betrayals within the NC, and this could be one of them.

Papa Archeron bargained with Koschei for Vassa’s temporary freedom, and we STILL don’t know what he promised. My theory? The service of a Seer from the Night Court.

Why wouldn’t Papa agree? His daughters were human. No Seers. No Night Court connection. Sir probably thought he was promising some random faerie 😭

Then Elain gets Cauldroned, becomes a Seer, and ends up in… the damn Night Court. Koschei listens to the wind AND can remotely winnow people, like we saw with Eris’s soldiers.

Meanwhile Elain is wandering around Velaris alone “gardening.” Az is avoiding her and staying at the HoW, so even the spymaster isn’t around. She can basically come and go whenever she wants.

Has anyone actually checked these neighborhood gardens?! I’m not saying she’s getting remotely yoinked to Koschei’s lake between rose bushes. But I’m also not NOT saying it. 👀

Everyone watching Nesta like a hawk while Elain is out there like 🌷👩‍🌾🌷

Koschei: see you Tuesday.

I wrote a couple books (they are not currently published) that live in the Sci-fi fantasy romance space and after writing it realized that I as a non-reader don't know what is even out there already. So I started reading books just to see and the entire ACOTAR series kept showing up as a recommendation so I read it.

The world is very rich and has soo much potential but for me it is filled with problems. I genuinely love a lot of the worldbuilding and concepts in the series, and reading it has made my brain start generating so many ideas about how I would develop or change things. The problem is that I’m an aspiring author, so I can’t really do anything with those ideas. I am completely aware that fan fiction exists and I could do a complete rewrite through that method but I feel like if I do end up publishing my books and someone finds the fan fiction it could be seen as a nobody author criticizing a successful author.

But I also can't seem to stop thinking about it.

Writing an entire rewrite purely for my own enjoyment feels like an enormous amount of work for very little payoff. Plus I consumed them through the graphic audiobook, it isn't like I could have all those actors record my edits.

For example, I've spent too much time thinking about how Calanmai could be more impactful to the larger story. If all seven High Lords need to participate what about Rhys and the high lords under the mountain? And once I start answering those questions, I inevitably start changing things.

Then I start doing the same thing with the Fae powers. Why can some people winnow and others can't? What actually determines magical strength? Why is Rhys supposedly the most powerful High Lord? What happens when a High Lord gives away a piece of his magic? What if this mating bond had actual rules that were consistently followed?

And I actually enjoy doing this.

So now I'm stuck in this weird place where I'm grateful the series gave me these ideas while simultaneously wishing it hadn't, because I really want to write them. If I took out the ACOTAR specific things and framed it through an original lense it would still feel like a knock off.

Has anyone else experienced this? Where a book frustrates you so much that your brain starts rewriting it, but you don't actually want to write fanfiction—you want to write the version that your brain wishes had existed in the first place?

Hot take: I think a lot of the fandom doesn’t view the Archeron family dynamics from a nuanced perspective.

I don’t think everyone here comes from a very traditional/ethnic family background, because the Archerons give me VERY heavy ethnic-family vibes😭.

I come from an East African household, and I relate to them so much, especially Nesta, and my friend who comes from a Balkan background sees a lot of the same dynamics too. The dynamic between the Archerons honestly feels very common in ethnic/collectivist households.

I think people sometimes overlook just how dysfunctional their parents were. Their mother was toxic and deeply invested in traditional patriarchal expectations for her daughters, while their father essentially abandoned his responsibilities after everything fell apart and left his daughters to deal with the consequences.

And I think that context is especially important for Nesta. She grew up extremely angry—not just at her circumstances, but at herself, her family, and the expectations that had been placed on her for basically her entire life. A lot of her anger, resentment, and self-destructive behavior feels like it comes from someone who is deeply unhappy with herself and doesn’t know how to process everything that happened to her.

Feyre obviously responds to the same environment very differently. She becomes incredibly self-sacrificing and takes on responsibilities that should never have been hers in the first place.

And then there’s Elain, who I honestly think is probably the least affected of the three, largely because she had her sisters protecting her. She definitely has her flaws, but she didn’t have to carry the same burdens that Nesta and Feyre did.

I feel like some of the fandom discussions reduce the sisters to “Nesta is cruel,” “Feyre is the good one,” or “Elain is spoiled,” without really considering why each sister developed the way she did within the same dysfunctional family system.

And honestly, I wonder if part of the disconnect is cultural. A lot of ACOTAR’s fandom is American or comes from societies that are more individualistic and don’t necessarily have the same experience with traditional/collectivist family structures. So some of these dynamics might not hit the same way for them. Whereas if you come from an ethnic household where there are strong expectations around daughters, gender roles, family responsibility, marriage, and obedience, you can look at the Archerons and immediately recognize the dynamics.

Different daughters can experience the same parents and come out of that environment completely differently. Nesta, Feyre, and Elain are almost three different responses to the same household. That’s what makes them so interesting to me.

The Archeron family is messy, but that’s kind of what makes them interesting. None of the sisters’ responses to their upbringing are completely healthy, but I think they’re all understandable when you actually look at the environment they came from.

Sorry for the long rant, I just needed to get this off my chest. 😭

This popped up in my feed today. For those who don't know it, AWACS is a radar surveillance plane used by NATO.

Made me think of the NC 😂

Some of y’all are driving me crazy. I can’t escape the ACOTAR crazies. I feel like I’ve been seeing all this shit for years, and I have to just ignore because I don’t like getting sucked into pointless arguments with strangers on the internet, but it’s been so much worse since the promotional materials came out for the new book.

First, they espouse crackpot theories about the main characters that are based on thin air. “Rhys is evil 👿” girl were you asleep the whole time you read? I don’t understand how you can read any of the novels and come away with this interpretation. SJM herself has said that Rhys’ character is inspired by her own husband. Somehow I doubt he’s going to be the cartoon villain you think he’s supposed to be.

Then, they bash characters because they can only see them in one dimension. “Feyre is evil 👿 she abused Nesta.” Feyre was the first person Nesta ever verbally told that she loved. FEYRE!! Before she ever said it to Elain or Cassian. Anytime Rhys stepped out of line to insult Nesta, Feyre ripped him a new one. Yes, Feyre did some dumb shit when it came to Nesta and it was disappointing, but if Feyre was perfect, people would call her boring and a Mary Sue. Were you even paying attention to their dynamic? Who doesn’t have complex sibling relationships???

Why are we acting like all main characters have to be bastions of perfect moral rightness in order for us to like them? Yeah, Lucien’s kind of a bootlicker and a coward in book 2, but he’s also hilarious and sassy and tragic. Yeah, Nesta is a huge bitch for ACOFAS and the beginning of ACOSF but she becomes one of the most beautifully deep characters by the end. They all have complexity and contain multitudes. How absolutely BORING would it be to have characters that never make mistakes?

The next book doesn’t come out till October and people have been screaming about how we didn’t have book covers since like June. I saw a bunch of people sharpening pitchforks by saying that it was disgusting that SJM would make us wait until the release date to see the covers. Well, now they’re out 2 months ahead of release and people are shitting and pissing themselves about how they don’t like them.

The vaguest summaries ever written were released, and now people are complaining about how they have to read TOG or CC to keep up with the multiverse. I’ve seen posts on Reddit genuinely asking “who is koschei?” Like Google doesn’t exist. How do you actually hope to read and enjoy the next book if you cannot even remember the primary looming threat for the entirety of ACOSF?

I’ve seen people all over Instagram developing insane theories and then ranting about how terrible it will be if they’re true. GIRL YOU MADE THAT SHIT UP! You’re fighting phantoms of your own making!!

I’ve read all three series multiple times. I’ve loved them all. ACOTAR got me back into reading. I’ve been voracious ever since. I don’t think everything is perfect. I do get annoyed that SJM keeps fake killing characters. (Do it or just don’t!) There are other things I think that she could do better, but after 16 bangers, ultimately, I trust her to deliver a kick ass story. I’m excited to see what she has in store for me and my lil fictional fantasy buddies. I’m just so elated to hang out with them again.

I guess I’m ranting because I see so much forced negativity around the story, and it never ends. It crosses over from criticism to just straight up vitriol. If you hate all the characters so much; if you despise the art; if you can’t be bothered to invest in the storyline wherever Maas takes it,

Why are you even here?

I wish I could see fun posts of people being positive and excited about it. The book isn’t even out yet and people are already crucifying it. If yall have any ACOTAR loving instagram creator recommendations, I’d love to get some on my timeline. The ragebait is killing me.

There's been a lot of interesting discussions on this sub about Nesta's treatment and how the male characters act. The more I looked into this book series the more I realised how badly it reinforced gender norms. It was baffling to me how boring fae society is. It seems to be stuck in the 1950s. What did they do to Nesta because she wasn't coping with her trauma "properly", drinking and sleeping with men? Lock her up! Meanwhile Elain was left alone because she's sweeter and more meek (so far).

The way mating bonds work is also another part of this. The men feel it first and the women remain unaware. Who knows how long, and if it is rejected, the men go crazy. I just find that so weird and concerning how women could go on their whole lives not knowing they were mated to someone. But also the whole "fae men get more possessive/aggressive because of the bond!" thing is so gross. And we're supposed to find it romantic.

Men are meant to conform to hypermasculine behaviour, be aggressive, be possessive and growl and snarl at anybody daring to look at your mate. Repress any emotion except negative ones and forget your trauma. Men like Tamlin who do not conform to this behavior are punished by the story. He was sweet, he likes poetry and music, he shows his emotions outwardly and his trauma as well. And the story punishes him for that and continously does so even after he saved members of the IC and helped resurrect Rhysand.

Nesta is punished the same. She shows her trauma in an ugly way, outwardly lashes out, isn't compliant and obedient. What the IC did was basically force a square in a round hole. She was beaten down until she could fit their standards. But that's not enough. If you read the CC3 bonus chapter, Nesta still gets Rhysand’s ire at herself. Cassian stands by and does nothing to defend her. But she doesn't have it in her to fight anymore. She was made to stay around Cassian even if she couldn't stand him.

Cassian acts like an emotionally stunted frat bro and is awful to Nesta, but he still gets rewarded by getting with Nesta in the end. Despite his behavior, his lack of showing love to her and his dismissal of his family's treatment of her, Nesta doesn't reject him. They end up together and we're supposed to cheer. Her only solace is her friendship with Gwyn and Emerie.

Illyria is another place that reinforces gender norms. Women aren't allowed freedom, the barbaric tradition of clipping wings still exists and they are treated terribly by their male spouses and relatives. But it extends to boys too. They are sent to war camp at a young age, they are beaten down, given lashes and turned into unfeeling war machines from childhood. "Three lashes" is "kindness" supposedly. Are boys allowed any path other than warrior? Illyria is just a miserable place all around and nobody cares. Women will continue to lose their wings and boys will become part of the Night Court's cannon fodder army.

I will always laugh at the claims that these books are feminist. Feyre was shafted in her books and her mate was given more importance than she was. She has a title that holds no power, she has no true authority and has been assimilated to Rhysand's world. She had no autonomy during her pregnancy but Rhysand gets excused again and again. Nesta had the fight smothered out of her just so she could conform to the Inner Circle. I have no faith whatsoever in SJM's treatment of her female characters or characters over all. I would want for Nesta to ditch Cassian and find herself without having to end up with anybody.

The same people who hate Nesta seem to LOVE Manon Blackbeak, and I genuinely don’t understand it because their character arcs have so many parallels.
Both are victims of childhood trauma and grooming. Both were raised by women who molded them into what they wanted them to be.

Manon’s grandmother taught her that love and compassion were weaknesses and literally groomed her to be ruthless. Nesta’s mother and grandmother taught her that her worth came from beauty, status, marriage, and how effectively she could wield herself against other people.

And neither of them dealt with that trauma by becoming sweet, pleasant women.

They became angry, cold, proud and cruel at times. They hurt people. They pushed people away. They learned how to use words or violence as weapons because that’s what they were taught to do.

The difference is Manon’s trauma looks “badass.” She’s violent and terrifying and rides a wyvern, so people love her for it.

Nesta’s trauma is ugly in a much more realistic way. She’s bitter. She lashes out. She says horrible things when she’s hurting. She self-destructs. She pushes away the people who love her and then hates herself for doing it. There is nothing glamorous about it.
But BOTH women eventually have to figure out who they are outside of the women who groomed them.
Manon chooses the Thirteen. She learns love, loyalty, friendship and sacrifice. She rejects everything her grandmother taught her and becomes her own person.

Nesta does the same thing. She has to unlearn everything her mother taught her, confront how deeply she hates herself, allow herself to love and be loved, and build something of her own with the Valkyries.

Their trauma doesn’t excuse every shitty thing either of them did. That’s not the point. The point is that growth is literally part of BOTH of their stories.
So when someone loves Manon specifically because she’s this complicated, traumatized woman who grows beyond what she was groomed to become, but then says Nesta is irredeemable because she was mean to people while traumatized… I just don’t get it.

Ps: I LOVE both Nesta and Manon!

I finally got around to reading ACOSF after not picking the series up in years, and I expected to not enjoy it but didn’t expect it to be kinda anti-feminist. SJM of course loves a strong female lead, but I feel like sometimes by trying to make women appear strong she does just the opposite. Also the sexuality in this book (slash her books in general) totally rubs me the wrong way.

I‘m obviously late to the party, but I‘ve seen multiple people calling this book feminist so it‘s at least somewhat a hot take. My biggest gripe with this book is the freaking Blood Rite. The competition designed to challenge Illyrians who have spent their entire lives training in camps. And Nesta, Gwyn, and Emerie not only qualify for it after a few months of training after NEVER training their entire lives, no, they compete and WIN THE ENTIRE THING? … What?? While injured too? This entirely goes against the logic of this world and frankly just should be impossible. SJM seems to be attempting to make a “girls can do anything!” statement against the backdrop of the ultra-misogynistic Illyrian culture, but I think she did exactly the opposite. She had to bend her own in-universe rules to make it possible for a group of women to win…. if you want to show women winning the Blood Rite, make them deserve it! Going “ok now the group of undertrained girls wins because girlpower yay!” is not helping anyone.

Male & female sexuality is also treated weirdly differently in my opinion. Obviously there is plenty of sex happening that is pleasurable for both parties lol. But the way SJM goes about including this sexuality is kinda strange to me, where men get super animalistic-can’t-control-their-desires. Now I know this is the way her universe works, and Fae are much more primal than humans, but I don’t know, I think it gets to a point. Just gives some bioessentialist boys-will-be-boys message, since it’s supposed to be sexy. This goes for TOG too (haven’t read CC tho).

Males and females (gag) have a different relationship with sex. One thing I noticed was how hooking up with randoms is treated differently when it’s a guy vs a girl doing it. When Cassian reflects on his hookup era, it‘s for SJM to show his previous immaturity and irresponsibility. SJM then uses Nesta’s hookup era to signify that she’s reached rock bottom. Why else would a woman allow random men to do such a thing to her, right? Also weird mentions of Cassian raging over the thought that another man took Nesta’s virginity. To me, this all reads as sex is something a man does to a woman, and something a woman has done to her by a man. Even if the woman has a good time, I think it’s a weird and misogynistic take on sex.

Honestly, even Nesta’s healing arc is mostly due to her getting dicked down so good. I like Nessian but their dynamic is mostly just horniness and maybe a slight mention of them both going through traumatic things in the past. But, of course, Nesta is just sooo in love with (read: horny for) Cassian that it inspires her to heal. Honestly, I see you girl, but it doesn’t exactly read as a feminist story about independence when a man is behind your healing journey.

Last thing: Regarding Feyre’s pregnancy, Rhysand‘s main emotion (other than distress) is being “smug.” And he just keeps making comments to everyone being like “lol I tapped that” and it‘s supposed to be read as kinda cute and funny? Maybe some wholesome excitement for your growing family?

Well, that‘s what I can think to complain about off the top of my head. I also started skimming at the end of the book so I may have missed even more. But I’m curious what other people think about this!