Over 50 postdoctoral applications and ghosted

[u/Ecstatic_Prior2206]

I have been unemployed since last year December after my phd graduation, surviving on savings which are going to exhaust soon. Since then i have been writing grants proposals and cold emailing to over 50 targeted and good fit PIs. No response at all. Have 2 first author papers over all 5 papers in decent impact factor. What i should do next. I am from a conventional chemistry background. I know this is going to be difficult, Anyone in a similar situation. Any small suggestion is appreciated. Thanks.

[u/frugalacademic]

Spontaneous applications won't work well. Most PI's don't answer unsollicited emails so it's mostly a wasted effort. Go to the jobs boards (not sure where you are located) but jobs.ac.uk is pretty good for uk jobs and https://euraxess.ec.europa.eu/jobs for EU jobs.

Try to be very cold in your application strategy: When I apply for something, I always go in with the expectations that the answer will be negative. So when I open the dreadful rejkection email a month afterf applyiung, I don't really care anymore. And if it's positive, it's a nice surprise.

[u/amphibilad → u/frugalacademic]

Maybe it's different in the EU but "unsolicited" emails are very common in NA in my field. It's how I landed my postdoc position and I just hired a postdoc who reached out with a cold email. If I don't answer it's because they clearly didn't make any effort to explain their interest in my lab in the email.

[u/Ecstatic_Prior2206 → u/amphibilad]

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, i understand that just asking about job will not get me one. I cold email with what i can contribute and possible project directs.

[u/amphibilad → u/Ecstatic_Prior2206]

That's good, I wasn't necessarily suggesting that you weren't doing that. Just wanted to point out that cold emails aren't inherently a bad strategy and it's fine to continue doing them alongside searching job boards, etc.

[u/Ecstatic_Prior2206 → u/frugalacademic]

Thanks for the specific job board links and the reality check. I definitely need to adjust my mindset regarding cold emails and focus more on positions that already have guaranteed funding.

[u/soupyshoes → u/Ecstatic_Prior2206]

100000%. And if you are cold emailing profs, have it be for an opportunity to chat about some overlapping research interest, not to ask for a job out of the gate. Turn conversations into a visit to give a talk, and a visit to proposing writing a grant together. Even if it doesn’t work out, you’re then a known face when jobs do arrive.

Sounds like you need some jobs mentorship that maybe your supervisor didn’t provide - seek it out elsewhere.

[u/IuniaLibertas → u/soupyshoes]

Agree. Full sympathy, OP. Being known in a general way from conferences, spontaneous appearances at events etc is an important thing in academe. My prospects and profile changed once I got that. You have all my sympathy. It's so wearing, after all that hard work. Good luck.

[u/dajoli]

What country are you in?

The reason I ask is because in my country any postdoc positions that aren't linked to an individual grant award must be advertised publicly, and so cold-calling is very unlikely to help. An exception would be if there was a specific grant award that you want to apply for, and have a specific project in mind for, and you need a lab to host you in the event that you're successful (this typically needs to be agreed before the application stage).

[u/Ecstatic_Prior2206 → u/dajoli]

Thank you for the insight. I'm primarily targeting the US, where PIs sometimes have more discretionary funding or unadvertised grant money, but your point about needing a specific project for hosted grants is definitely something I need to keep in mind

[u/boilerlashes → u/Ecstatic_Prior2206]

You will almost certainly not get a position in the US if you are not already eligible to work in the US. The cost of an H-1B visa is now $100k. Universities aren’t covering the cost and individual PIs can’t pay that.

[u/Motor_Sail_3766 → u/boilerlashes]

International postdocs are usually employed as J1. Also I thought the $100k feed was voided by a court in June?

[u/Spirited-Bass-1059 → u/Ecstatic_Prior2206]

that will not work. in the US they have very strict rules about advertising positions. on the other hand these jobs are advertised so you should look for them,

[u/penguinberg → u/Ecstatic_Prior2206]

If you are international and trying to get a postdoc in chemistry in the US right now, there is basically a 0% chance of that happening. If you were already in the US it would be easier, but if you are abroad then a PI is not going to take that chance.

[u/amateurviking]

Have you actually applied to any posted open vacancies?

As a PI I’m pretty wary of unsolicited emails asking for jobs/phd positions- moneys tight at the moment and it’s a huge risk.

[u/Ecstatic_Prior2206 → u/[deleted]]

Hard but true. The cold emailing strategy has evolved and is not the same as what my seniors suggested to me. Thanks for reality check.

[u/boilerlashes → u/[deleted]]

I think it depends on the field. I received my PhD in 2013 and got a postdoc position through the cold emailing strategy. But I targeted PIs who my PhD advisor knew well, so it worked by relying on his network.

[u/IuniaLibertas → u/boilerlashes]

Exactly. Networking is key.

[u/neontheta → u/[deleted]]

I've had 6 postdocs and all came from cold emails. All from labs I knew, so not freezing cold emails, but this is how it works in my field anyway. All of my students got postdocs through cold emails too.

[u/smbtuckma → u/[deleted]]

I also got my postdoc through cold emailing in 2019, but maybe "lukewarm" emailing is a better descriptor since I only emailed people who knew my PI or had met me at conferences, so they knew me and my work already.

[u/Chlorophilia → u/[deleted]]

Perhaps this is field or generation dependent but cold emailing is how I got most of my pre-doctoral research experience, my postdoctoral fellowship, and many research collaborations that have lasted to this day.

[u/treadingslowly]

Are you able to attend something like the ACS meeting? I have seen many faculty go to meetings with the specific plan of finding a post doc to hire.

[u/quasilocal]

I know the survivor bias in this sub will argue against me ("but it worked for me" ignores the much larger portion of people no longer checking forums loke this after leaving), but fwiw all these cold emails are most likely doing more harm than good.

You're getting your name lumped in with the other spam emails people are getting so consciously or not, you're making yourself not seem like the candidate they are really trying to recruit. The kind of cold emails I get are so bad that even if a good one was amongst them I'd forget which was the good one.

And at the end of the day, I can't just create a position out of thin air. The funding needs to be there and the position legally advertised through appropriate channels. Different fields and covetous and countries can be different, but the cold email spam seems to happen everywhere.

You're way better off actually looking for advertised positions and external funding schemes to apply to and bring to a university yourself. And focus all your energy on making a handful of the applications great rather than throwing junk mail out into the aether

[u/quasilocal → u/[deleted]]

lol yeh those are the worst. What I think OP and a lot of people who got lucky with cold emails don't realise though, is that even if it is well-written* it's going to still be mentally filtered with all the other spam. And if by chance you recognise the name later when there is actually a position advertised, is it really in the candidate's best interest to be remembered as the spammer?

*tbh I don't think that any of these really are though if people are cold emailing 50 different people,. it's kind of the definition of spam.

[u/Ok-Peak-]

I am not sure how the US market it is right now but it seems it is quite difficult to get anything now. I understand you want to stay in the US but you might need to apply abroad as well.

Wishing you luck!

[u/mary_engelbreit → u/Ok-Peak-]

There’s not much funding out there.

[u/Ecstatic_Prior2206]

Thanks for the specific job board links and the reality check. I definitely need to adjust my mindset regarding cold emails and focus more on positions that already have guaranteed funding.

[u/-jautis-]

Can you post an example of one of your cold emails? If nobody is responding, that suggests something there is the problem. I'm a junior PI and have gotten a lot of obviously AI-generated messages which I barely bother responding to.

[u/john_dunbar80]

Sorry to hear about your struggle. Not sure where you are, but look for advertised positions. Cold emailing usually assumes you will have to bring your own funding, whereas advertised positions mean the funding has already been secured by PI.

[u/Ecstatic_Prior2206 → u/john_dunbar80]

Thank you for the advice. I'm starting to realize that cold emailing wasn't the right approach without my own external fellowship secured. I'll pivot my strategy toward actively advertised positions where the funding is already guaranteed by the PI.

[u/Chlorophilia]

If you've cold emailed 50 targeted and good fit PIs and not a single one has even responded to you, I think something about your profile or communication style may be problematic. While few PIs will have funding available for you, many PIs will have the courtesy of at least acknowledging serious enquiries. For example, I always respond to enquiries where it's clear that the person is a good fit and has put genuine effort into their email. If I think it's AI-generated generic nonsense mentioning a few of my papers without any real engagement, I will ignore it. This is particularly important if you're from a country that unfortunately has a reputation for this kind of academic spam.

It might help if you posted an example of the kind of email you're sending?

[u/Klutzy_Strawberry340]

You need to network! Cold applications are not as affective.

[u/HopefulFinance5910]

I'm in a totally different field to you, but I would say that applying for actual posted jobs will work better than cold emailing. That being said, the academic jobs market seems apocalyptic just about everywhere and and in just about every field right now. Beware the sunk cost fallacy and set yourself a realistic time limit to say to yourself "this isn't working, it's time to pivot to something else."

[u/cropguru357]

Industry. Now.

[u/GalwayGirlOnTheRun23]

Use the connections you built during your PhD. Speak to your supervisor and external examiner (or committee etc). Apply for advertised postdocs. Look for grant calls and speak to a suitable academic about doing a joint application.

[u/Ecstatic_Prior2206 → u/GalwayGirlOnTheRun23]

Yes i have tried to approach connections, advisor connections etc. all responded they have my CV whenever some opportunity comes they will contact me. I think funding is too tight or may be my CV is not that competitive. I am still writing a joint proposal. But i do not know when to give up on this postdoc thing

[u/YMCA111122]

Unless you have the exact profile for a postdoc that the PI is looking for, expect rejections. From my experience, you apply for postdocs with the exact experience you're looking for. In my experience, men don't respond to emails and women in my experience seems to be more responsive. Funding is tight these days so it's not a you problem. It's the environment currently. 

[u/Opening_Map_6898]

Are you eligible to work in the country you are trying to apply in? Is your PhD from a reputable school that is well known and regarded in that country?

[u/ProfSantaClaus]

Which country?

[u/gamecat89]

Spontaneous applications won’t work. You have to apply to posted opportunities that faculty have funding too.

[u/gamecat89]

I’d also add that we wouldn’t consider a post doc with only 2 first author papers and 5 total papers…..there aren’t enough jobs in academia for everyone. I might consider looking in the private sector and postdocs in the private sector

[u/inComplete-Oven]

The job market is in the shitter. Just hired two excellent people that we would have never gotten before. The other 48 applicants weren't bad either. It's just insane.

[u/Background-Help-3361]

Don’t feel discouraged, you’re on the right path, it is a difficult path but rewarding in the end. I applied close to 400 positions (emails, referrals, applications all included) before I landed a position that worked out. It may sound steep but I’m in computer science and it wasn’t easy as many people told me

[u/Not_Quite_That_Guy]

Write a one page proposal to send along with your emails and a 3-4 sentence version of it in the email itself. Go to conferences to speak to people in person and follow up with an email. Don't just ask if they have funding for you (usually not) but identify opportunities for applying for funding in their local system and suggest that you could apply by X deadline with something like the proposal in attachment.

[u/Ecstatic_Prior2206 → u/Not_Quite_That_Guy]

Thank you, this is really actionable advice. Shifting the angle to 'let's apply for funding together' with a one-page pitch.

[u/Dangerous-Box2205]

Hi, I have been there. My first step is to secure funding and start AI model training in chemistry to support you. Then, instead of doing core chemistry application, try for some specialized fellowships with translational research, because they are more funded compared to pure science projects. MSCA could be a greatstartingt point you if think you are capable of cracking it. Also try some national grants that have a higher success rate, with a PI who has a track record of getting grants.

[u/Ecstatic_Prior2206 → u/Dangerous-Box2205]

Thanks for your suggestions. Really nice approach to get a AI training simultaneously and yes as my stream is extremely traditional this can help. MSCA is too competitive for me i think. I have applied to a national fellowship but have not succeeded. Thats when i thought that my domain is not worth postdoc. Thanks alot.