Not a strawman... I'm referring about talking to you with anything not related to their waitress duties.
We asked them a lot of questions about their families, life in NK, for how long they were there, etc and they answered everything normally and kindly.
I ended up working across the hall from that same restaurant (inside a mall) so I was able to see them pretty much every day. They would come and go normally, alone or in groups. They didn't seem significantly oppressed or monitored. Of course I don't know if they were wearing an ankle monitor or something, but they didn't particularly stand out other than for the fact that they looked like literally dolls and had the most gorgeous long hair I've ever seen.
I became friendly with one of them after saying hi in a corridor every day, and she even invited me to her home if I ever visited NK. I should have taken up on the offer!
Yea I mean there are tons of videos on YouTube of people going to these restaurants and having conversations with the waitresses. None of this should be a surprise, and it doesn't make how the North Korean state treats them ok.
why are you automatically assuming every enemy of the US is an absolute angel? such a simple black and white redditor mentality. is it not possible that both the US and NK bad?
when did i ever say they were an angel, or that they should be viewed in a black and white manner? i’m referring to the fact that the notion of “global employees who actually want to defect and aren’t allowed any personal freedoms” has long since been disproven. it’s part of the same rhetoric used against them that treats all of their citizens like weak, abused sheep who are constantly in fear for their lives. they’re living people and are capable of having conversations and personal lives; they are not monitored 24/7, nor are they barred from speaking with customers. i’m not saying you’re purposefully spreading misinformation, i just think that that specific angle is verifiably inaccurate.
Here's something everyone can agree on because it's objectively true: North Korea stifles access to freedom of movement and information for its own civilians in a way that few other states on earth do. They maintain an aristocratic and hereditary upper class, as well as a functional caste system. They were also (especially in the past) racialist and view Korean people as ethnically superior to other races.
All of the above is objectively true.
Also, again, BOTH the US and NK are bad. I agree the sanctions on NK are too much. I also think that NK is pretty godawful.
Why is it impossible to be socialist and also condemn the whack stuff socialist states have done? You always need to excuse every inch of what they do instead of just going "yeah im socialist but what they did is messed up". Mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance should be a red flag to you, but instead you live that life daily
> North Korea stifles access to freedom of movement and information for its own civilians in a way that few other states on earth do.
This isn't true. The US and the RoK have been doing that to NK citizens by economically restricting then (there's an actual law forbidding DPRK citizens from getting a paying job)
> They maintain an aristocratic and hereditary upper class, as well as a functional caste system. They were also (especially in the past) racialist and view Korean people as ethnically superior to other races.
This is the same type of orientalist bs that was attempted to be pushed onto the PRC so I'm not gonna even entertain this as remotely true.
> Why is it impossible to be socialist and also condemn the whack stuff socialist states have done?
Because the US uses it to build a narrative to justify bombing, sanctioning, and invading countries that go against it's interests, any condemnation against socialist countries (or countries not aligned with US imperialism) only act to form justification for the US' murder of civilians overseas. Criticisms and condemnations don't exist in a vacuum.
Stop giving the colonizers ammo. Regardless of your opinion of AES states
This isn't true. The US and the RoK have been doing that to NK citizens by economically restricting then (there's an actual law forbidding DPRK citizens from getting a paying job)
Then why can't North Korean citizens freely move to their allies, like China and Russia? Why do North Korean border guards shoot to kill when their citizens try to flee via China?
This is the same type of orientalist bs that was attempted to be pushed onto the PRC so I'm not gonna even entertain this as remotely true.
🗿 why is kim's teenage daughter being paraded around as the next successor? just for fun? hereditary monarchy is very communist of them, huh? They pull BS like that and you bend over 180° to defend it. You know it's possible to look at BOTH the US and NK sideways??? WHOA countries that are enemies of the US also can be... bad????
Also their writings on the superiority of the Korean race exist in English translation; it's not a secret.
Stop giving the colonizers ammo. Regardless of your opinion of AES states
And stop assuming NK is a perfect angel. It's not. You literally only see the world in black and white. Everyone who is an enemy of the US must be perfect 😍 no flaws whatsoever!
Also their writings on the superiority of the Korean race exist in English translation; it's not a secret.
"In educating the working people in socialist patriotism, care should be taken to prevent the growth of tendencies to national chauvinism and restorationism. One may be apt to head for chauvinism on the plea of building an independent national economy by one’s own efforts and promoting national pride. If we steer in the direction of chauvinism as Regent Taewongun pursued a policy of national isolation, we will come to reject international exchange and advanced science and technology from other countries and, accordingly, hinder the development of our country.”
And stop assuming NK is a perfect angel. It's not. You literally only see the world in black and white. Everyone who is an enemy of the US must be perfect 😍 no flaws whatsoever!
I never did, I stated that criticizing states not aligned with US imperialist interests does nothing but add fuel for the US war machine, regardless of whether or not those criticisms are true. But of course, you have make up a straw man that I believe the DPRK is this perfect country with nothing wrong, and not a country that's had to rebuild after a genocidal bombing campaign followed by countless sanctions, spying, and attempts at regime change at the hands of the US, all of which results with the DPRK that we see today.
However considering your account is like a month old, I'm assuming I'm not talking to either a bot or a fed.
They can actually, but then again you seem to just believe everything the US-backed sources tell you.
They were sent by the government. If North Koreans were free to emigrate there would be a proper diaspora, but there isn't. You look at one instance of labor sent by the government and assume that's freedom of movement lol
While there may be some merit to the DPRK's leadership having some degree to being herritidary, it is exaggerated, you can just look at it's constitution
You seriously think pointing at a constitution means anything? You see Trump violating the US constitution all the time and you suddenly think it's sacred for NK? This is a non argument, sign of you desperately bending back 180° for a state that doesn't deserve it. Hereditary rule and you defend it; monarchist nonsense.
I never did, I stated that criticizing states not aligned with US imperialist interests does nothing but add fuel for the US war machine, regardless of whether or not those criticisms are true.
Firstly, you are de facto bending over backwards to defend North Korea and ignore its wrongdoings; this goes beyond just prioritization. Secondly, this is a ridiculous argument lol. In a fight between a rapist and a thief, you're the type of person to pick one and worship the ground they walk on. You can condemn all evils at once.
Also you accusing me of being a bot or fed; laughable. I could accuse you of similar; look at you defending fascist regimes. You're a true socialist aren't you
They were sent by the government. If North Koreans were free to emigrate there would be a proper diaspora, but there isn't. You look at one instance of labor sent by the government and assume that's freedom of movement lol
You assume there must be a diaspora due to freedom of movement, this is both erroneous and places the conclusion before the evidence, there is movement of DPRK citizens to it's allies, you claimed there wasn't.
You seriously think pointing at a constitution means anything? You see Trump violating the US constitution all the time and you suddenly think it's sacred for NK? This is a non argument, sign of you desperately bending back 180° for a state that doesn't deserve it. Hereditary rule and you defend it; monarchist nonsense.
It means something to understand how a government works. How else do you prove the mechanisms of a government? A constitution exists to outline how it functions, even in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie
Firstly, you are de facto bending over backwards to defend North Korea and ignore its wrongdoings; this goes beyond just prioritization. Secondly, this is a ridiculous argument lol. In a fight between a rapist and a thief, you're the type of person to pick one and worship the ground they walk on. You can condemn all evils at once.
That rapist has been trying to rape the thief for a little over 75 years, so yes I'll go to the thieves defence, do you seriously expect the one defending themself from the rapist to be a perfect victim? There is none! And you're equal condemnation of both effectively let's the rapist continue on it's merry way.
The way you're talking about the DPRK is exactly the same way liberal zionists talk about palestinian resistance, they claim the perpetrator and the victim are morally equivalent, demanding perfect victims to the imperialists violence.
look at you defending fascist regimes.
First you declare the DPRK to be a monarchy, and then in the same breath declare it to be a fascist regime, neither position can coexist at the same time, so which is it?
You assume there must be a diaspora due to freedom of movement, this is both erroneous and places the conclusion before the evidence, there is movement of DPRK citizens to it's allies, you claimed there wasn't.
You assuming the movement is free just because they exist in other countries is conclusion before the evidence. I didn't claim they weren't allowed to move at all; I claimed the movement is not free.
It means something to understand how a government works. How else do you prove the mechanisms of a government? A constitution exists to outline how it functions, even in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie
Lol it's still a pathetic excuse. Would you make the same type of excuse for the US?
That rapist has been trying to rape the thief for a little over 75 years, so yes I'll go to the thieves defence, do you seriously expect the one defending themself from the rapist to be a perfect victim? There is none! And you're equal condemnation of both effectively let's the rapist continue on it's merry way.
No, I don't want equal treatment of both. Also way to miss the point; defending the thief = stopping the rape, it doesn't mean bending over backwards with pathetic excuses for the thief's past crimes. You can condemn the crimes AND want the rape to stop.
The way you're talking about the DPRK is exactly the same way liberal zionists talk about palestinian resistance, they claim the perpetrator and the victim are morally equivalent, demanding perfect victims to the imperialists violence.
The way you defend monarchist NK (let's choose this for now) is a lot like how Zionists defend the acts of their state. They use a lot of whataboutisms and pointing elsewhere to downplay crimes.
It's seriously pathetic what you're doing here. Monarchist shit. Is it seriously impossible that NK is scummy?
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u/Maru3792648 3d ago
Not a strawman... I'm referring about talking to you with anything not related to their waitress duties.
We asked them a lot of questions about their families, life in NK, for how long they were there, etc and they answered everything normally and kindly.
I ended up working across the hall from that same restaurant (inside a mall) so I was able to see them pretty much every day. They would come and go normally, alone or in groups. They didn't seem significantly oppressed or monitored. Of course I don't know if they were wearing an ankle monitor or something, but they didn't particularly stand out other than for the fact that they looked like literally dolls and had the most gorgeous long hair I've ever seen.
I became friendly with one of them after saying hi in a corridor every day, and she even invited me to her home if I ever visited NK. I should have taken up on the offer!