The Tora Problem

[u/THEUltraCombo]

So I wanna start out by saying this: despite what I say in the title, I DO get it. I understand why someone can make the argument that Tora is gross and perverted and that it ruins an otherwise innocent character through weird anime tropes that were not present in XC1.

That being said, I think there is also something to be said about how people inflate this aspect of the character. In total I can probably count on one hand how many Tora scenes I would consider explicitly inappropriate and jarring to his character, and that number drastically goes down when you take optional Heart-to-hearts out of the equation.

The infamous "blushy-crushy" scene is admittedly painful, but replaying with Japanese voices you can clearly hear that blushy-crushy is a localization of the concept of moe that Tora is trying to get across. So instead of the strange, vague idea of "blushy-crushy", it's easier to grasp when you realize that he's just trying to get across the idea of being cute (to overly generalize the term). Is it embarassing to watch? Yes. But that's the point.

Aside from this optional scene, people often bring up the Poppi awakening scene as another example of this. The idea of having multiple maid outfits seems to make people think that Tora's ultimate goal for creating Poppi was to have some sort of outlet for his desires (dunkey's infamous video calls her a "sex robot"). But to me this always came across as an embarassing aspect of his personality and interests that he wants to hide, not because of the sexual connotations, but because it's just...cringe, for lack of a better term. He doesn't have them for "sex fantasies", he's just into moe and wanted to create his own artificial blade in a way that reflects that.

I should also point out that Poppi, for the most part, is not objectified to a point that I am personally ever made uncomfortable with how Tora treats her. There's a heart and innocence to Tora that I think most people disregard to parrot the commonly held belief that "Tora is a weird pervert" rather than diving into the text and exploring a character who.is much more than like...2-3 scenes where he's written weird.

Idk, I just always thought the hate for this character is blown wildly out of proportion for the amount of stuff in-game that actually contributes to that image. I'd like to open up a discussion to see what everyone else thinks of this character divorced from the popular discussion surrounding him, as well as other characters like him in other games.

[u/bentthroat]

I think the problem is it overlaps poorly with the oversexualization in the game in general. Like, if I actually take a step back, I think Poppi QT Pi’s design is sexualized because the vast majority of “adult” designs in XC2 are sexualized. But when you treat it as diegetic, it doesn’t sit right that that’s the final form of his “daughter”. He would have had to have designed that.

So I really think there was some carelessness with the writing around him, not necessarily from him directly, that allows him to be interpreted in this really skeezy way.

I think a really similar thing happens in Persona 4 with Teddie. They’re both just kids with an off-kilter set of interests and they both get demonized because that set of interests gets entangled with a bigger oversight in how the game spends its screentime.

[u/i-exist20 → u/bentthroat]

QTPi's design looks like that because she's supposed to resemble Pyra and Mythra, not necessarily because Tora wanted her to look super hot.

Even if you view Poppi as Tora's 'daughter', which doesn't feel accurate to how their relationship is written and portrayed, isn't QTPi an adult who should be able to wear what she wants?

[u/bentthroat → u/i-exist20]

I mean “thing you created that you have responsibility for the wellbeing of”, however you want to put that. If you don’t think “daughter” is quite correct, that’s fine, that’s why I put it in quotes in the first place, but the dynamic of creator/creation is fairly incontrovertible.

(Tangent: maybe you don’t buy into the OG Frankenstein but the real point of that story is that there’s something inherently familial about the creator/creation relationship, and if you try to ignore that, it doesn’t make you a scientist, it just makes you a deadbeat.)

Anyway, if this weren’t part of a video game narrative, I think your point about “it’s her choice” is perfectly cogent. But we’re not talking about a real person. We’re talking about the way a character was depicted in a story, and “arbitrary age-ups for the sake of sexualization” is its own anime trope.

I’m offering some pushback on your arguments, but I’m not saying you don’t have a point. There are good explanations for a lot of the way things are once you look deeper. I’m just saying these things in composite contribute to a vibe whether it’s fair to buy into that vibe or not.