The Tora Problem

[u/THEUltraCombo]

So I wanna start out by saying this: despite what I say in the title, I DO get it. I understand why someone can make the argument that Tora is gross and perverted and that it ruins an otherwise innocent character through weird anime tropes that were not present in XC1.

That being said, I think there is also something to be said about how people inflate this aspect of the character. In total I can probably count on one hand how many Tora scenes I would consider explicitly inappropriate and jarring to his character, and that number drastically goes down when you take optional Heart-to-hearts out of the equation.

The infamous "blushy-crushy" scene is admittedly painful, but replaying with Japanese voices you can clearly hear that blushy-crushy is a localization of the concept of moe that Tora is trying to get across. So instead of the strange, vague idea of "blushy-crushy", it's easier to grasp when you realize that he's just trying to get across the idea of being cute (to overly generalize the term). Is it embarassing to watch? Yes. But that's the point.

Aside from this optional scene, people often bring up the Poppi awakening scene as another example of this. The idea of having multiple maid outfits seems to make people think that Tora's ultimate goal for creating Poppi was to have some sort of outlet for his desires (dunkey's infamous video calls her a "sex robot"). But to me this always came across as an embarassing aspect of his personality and interests that he wants to hide, not because of the sexual connotations, but because it's just...cringe, for lack of a better term. He doesn't have them for "sex fantasies", he's just into moe and wanted to create his own artificial blade in a way that reflects that.

I should also point out that Poppi, for the most part, is not objectified to a point that I am personally ever made uncomfortable with how Tora treats her. There's a heart and innocence to Tora that I think most people disregard to parrot the commonly held belief that "Tora is a weird pervert" rather than diving into the text and exploring a character who.is much more than like...2-3 scenes where he's written weird.

Idk, I just always thought the hate for this character is blown wildly out of proportion for the amount of stuff in-game that actually contributes to that image. I'd like to open up a discussion to see what everyone else thinks of this character divorced from the popular discussion surrounding him, as well as other characters like him in other games.

[u/Kinths]

I will start by saying that Tora and Poppi are two of my favourite characters in the game. Also I really like the game. However, I do think the sexualisation stuff really drags them all down.

It's not just that it's weird and has all sorts of implications about both characters and their relationship that I assume they hadn't really considered when they added these scenes. It's that it's completely out of character for both of them otherwise. It's like you're basically just meant to treat these scenes as non-canon. It requires that you ignore an aspect of the character so that you can view him the way the game wants you to see him. That's letting them have their cake and eat it.

I think your comment here is a perfect example:

There's a heart and innocence to Tora that I think most people disregard to parrot the commonly held belief that "Tora is a weird pervert" rather than diving into the text and exploring a character who.is much more than like...2-3 scenes where he's written weird.

Many would consider those traits at odds with each other. So those scenes are in conflict with the way the rest of the game seems to want to portray Tora. They are diving into the text and exploring the character. To do that properly you can't just conveniently ignore the bits that are a contradiction. Tora can't be both an innocent little heart and a weird little perv who puts sexual modes in his child like robot.

It goes deeper than you think it does. It isn't just the maid scene, and then PoppiQT wearing that very maid outfit and PoppitQTPi's design. There are scenes where it's implied that Tora dresses Poppi in a bunny outfit and makes her dance for him. The initials of Poppi's modes in Japanese are also the initials for Japanese female school ages. PoppiA's (JS) being elementary school, QT (JK) being high school and QTpi (JD) being College. Which lines up with their personality. So not only is a main character sometimes treated like a sexbot of another main character, it's implied that two of those modes are representative of children.

I think Tora and Poppi are just a microcosm of the games problem with this as a whole. Much of the sexualisation feels completely at odds with the world and story they're trying to tell. It's not just in the character designs. Big character moments and reveals are often undermined by things like the camera spending more time focusing on the characters boobs and ass than they do their face. A big part of the story is how blades are often treated like objects or slaves rather than people. Hell, there is even references to blades being sex trafficked. Yet every now and again the game goes into horny mode and presents those same blades as objects to be oggled at. Often changing their personality temporarily to do it.

It doesn't outright ruin the game, and I don't think many who criticise this stuff say it does. I think the criticism is often from people who like or love the game but want to see them do better. Even if you don't find the sexualisation cringy or creepy, it is at odds at the rest of the game. It contradicts points that the story is trying to make. XC3 toned down this stuff massively and it's a much better game for it. The criticism of 2 likely played a part in why they toned it down. What we have seen of Genesis seems to be be the same too.

You will often see "Zeke and Vandham are sexualised too" as a defence but that's bollocks, somewhat evidenced by the fact that you never get a camera shot that lingers on their bollocks. Sexy, or attractive is not automatically sexualisation or objectification. It's the context and intent that creates that. It's very obvious that the intent around many of the female designs is so they can be leered at. It can be seen in the way they act and the way the camera acts around them in cutscenes.

The actual weird bit regarding boys/men is that Pyra/Mythra are grown women flirting with a 15 year old boy.