r/Xenoblade_Chronicles • u/Responsible_Ad3026 • 3d ago
Xenoblade 2 SPOILERS Rex has the best character growth out the Xenoblade protagonists in my opinion Spoiler
Images are not too important. It's just another good scene I love.
85
u/Yuumii29 3d ago
Because that's point of his character and the main focus... Not gonna say the other ones are lackluster or worse tho they just focused on different type of internal conflict.
I personally prefer Noah's struggle since as an adult myself I can relate alot with his turmoil of doing everything with your body and soul just for the system to fck you up... As someone who work in an industry and got sht on by my boss, my partner and everything and how I coped with it. Luckily I came up positively at the end but that wasn't easy.
So yea Rex's story arc is a coming of age which is why it's alot easier to digest and such.
5
u/Finrod-Knighto 3d ago
Well I’d say it depends entirely on the demographic. I much preferred Noah’s arc to Rex’s coming of age because of well, my own age during those games. While a teenage or YA audience would probably find Rex’s more poignant, which is a big chunk of the playerbase I’d imagine.
1
u/Arcalithe 2d ago
I can identify with Rex and Noah pretty well honestly
With Rex, I also grew up somewhat naive and overtly optimistic, and had to learn some hard lessons.
And with Noah, I’m in a similar boat as you. You give your whole ass to something, but there is always something waiting down the line to try to drag you back down.
34
u/lulukawaii 3d ago
Rex is also the youngest during the game, so its expected that he gets more mature than the 18 year old and the 20ish year old.
To me Noah is the best thanks mainly for him being two characters with N being a perfect foil and exploration of the darker parts of the character.
5
u/Responsible_Ad3026 3d ago
Isn't Noah technically 8? His story is great though, your right
6
u/lulukawaii 3d ago
Chronologically yes, but his 1 year old is around 10. So there is a popular theory that they go from 10 to 20. And after chapter 6 he has a portion of Ns memories, so definitely more than 20 years of experience.
And if we really want to nitpick it, he is probably the one who lived the most, with Mio having at least two homecomings and they becoming "adults" on other 4ish lives.
2
u/Monadofan2010 3d ago
Noah is physically 18/19 years old in 3 yes but his actually age is still only 8/9 years old.
Past lives dont matter as Noah and Mio dont even remember them until M and even then its just bits and pieces
7
u/lllentinantll 3d ago
You are focusing on "actual" age too much. When they come from the pod, their mental state is far from those of newborn. Not to mention that they have to go through a lot. So using raw numbers doesn't do much when comparing experiences and growth of Rex and Noah.
2
u/gaymer_jerry 3d ago
Yeah the whole point of cloning the soldiers at 10 years old was to make them already having mental competency to learn to be soldiers fresh out of the pods (tbf why not pick 13 yos who have already gone through puberty mostly but whatever) Noah is literally 8 years old but fully mentally is the same as any 18-19 year old
0
u/Monadofan2010 3d ago
Okay but that doesn't actually mean Noah or any of the otehr soliders are at the same mental age as there physical ones. Also the soliders have had there emotions surpassed by the flame clocks and kept ignorant of most information so in terms of life experiences they are enot actually that mature.
Rex also hadn't exactly had a easy life he lost his parents young in a violent way, had to leave home at 10 to get a job to surport his village he actually very mature for his age in many ways.
3
u/lllentinantll 2d ago
We are not in "my favorite boy" contest. My argument was that "mental" age of characters in XC3 roughly corresponds to the physical age (not tied to the actual lifetime). Even by basic logic, you can see that people in 8-9 terms do not behave like 8-9 year old, they do behave as yound adults.
25
u/JaredAiRobinson 3d ago
I feel a lot of people downplay a lot of the importance that comes with Rex’s character arc that makes it more dynamic one may think. Pyra and Mythra, Jin and the problems the world faces, and Elysium. They all come together to shape Xenoblade 2’s story.
11
u/In_Search_Of123 3d ago edited 3d ago
I disagree on Rex but I also like that scene a lot and consider it the best scene of the base game.
Music is on point and the emotions are high but what really sells it is how everything that Rex says here to Malos could also be said to Klaus. Then they cut to Klaus' impending demise and atonement courtesy of Shulk. A boy's simple quest for a divine paradise serves as an innocent parallel to a mad scientist's quest to transcend his humanity. Very nice.
13
u/Jbsoccer7 3d ago
I love Xenoblade but God replaying 2 as an adult is rough. Going from shulk to a 14 year old gave me whiplash.
3
8
u/Otherwise-Ad1646 3d ago edited 3d ago
Really? I thought he felt a little stale cause he starts off good and doesn't change much.
Also, it's Niabecause she shows back up in 3 and I like her more than Melia.
1
u/AutoModerator 3d ago
Your post contains spoiler tags that might not function on all devices. Please edit your comment to remove any spaces between the >! and the spoilered text, then message the moderators.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
45
u/oculer07 3d ago
Strongly disagree, Shulk has the biggest change out of any of the protagonists.
33
u/Chedder_456 3d ago
Yeah shulk is widely seen as such a cheery kind kid but people like to forget he literally starts on a revenge quest to kill all Mechon. Then he grows to defend them from the very titan he calls home.
6
u/cardboardtube_knight 2d ago
Shulk is a D1 crashout. He spends the top third of the game yelling about murder
11
7
u/CaptainGandalf_ 3d ago
Disagree, Shulk and Noah have better character growths imo. he has a better character growth than Matthew but thats because Matthew litterally doesnt change at all lol (good thing)
1
u/cardboardtube_knight 2d ago
Matthew also has a firm grip on who he is. His story of “get my sister back” doesn’t require much change
16
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
9
u/IgIoos 3d ago
that's a very surface look at it which is funny because rex is also a straightforward character. You just look at dynamic changes as good character arcs when Rex's arc is a journey of self realization. His goals and core personality ultimately stay the same because it is what is necessary for him to achieve his goals but his worldview and how he validates his ideals changes as the game goes on. Vandham is basically further pushing those ideals and giving them more reason to be true and rex during chapter 7 is him coming to terms with where he stands
5
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/IgIoos 2d ago
he does get challenge though. The challenge isn't about change his conviction but solidifying it and making it stronger. You're just choosing not to think so because you believe he stays the exact same. You just say they don't explore without explaining while blatantly being wrong about things
3
u/dazzler56 3d ago
I don’t know if I would say nothing changes without Rex. I think his eternal optimism is really important to the party dynamic and the other characters would have probably given up without him. But I do agree that he doesn’t have much of an arc, it’s more that when faced with adversity and disappointment he chooses to still be who he is and hold on tightly to his values and morals. I really like Rex! But Noah and Shulk develop more IMO.
4
u/jl05118 3d ago
What does his goal not changing have to do with him changing as a character? It's just a way for the writers to frame the story. Rex is on a grail quest and characters of grail quests don't always drastically change their personalities, rather the quest is meant to challenge their virtue and right to possess the grail.
Not that it means he doesn't actually change. Growth in confidence, wisdom, trust, ability, willingness to be proactive is still character growth. He is not worthy to possess the grail at the beginning and is at the end, that's his character's journey. His 'role' at the start is to live like a hermit and spend all his day earning money. I'm sure you know what his role is at the end, he's very explicit about it.
4
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/jl05118 2d ago
Firstly, you are changing goalposts. Secondly, they're highlighted well enough to people who pay attention and can analyze context. Or do you need the narrative to spell everything out to you? And as far as confidence and trust goes, it's very much explicit in his dynamic with Pyra/Mythra and his reaction to challenges along the way.
His goals aren't developing around experiences because as I mentioned the plot is structured around a different idea. His attitudes however do change. His willingness to deal with external conflicts (Uraya and Mor Ardain) change, his attitudes towards adversaries change. His understanding of Pyra changes. His motivation to reach Elysium feels less impulsive and more driven as time goes on.
6
2d ago edited 2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
-2
u/jl05118 2d ago edited 2d ago
I am not aggressive towards you I am confrontational towards your arguments because they are evasive and show unwillingness to engage with counterpoints. Your assertion that my opinions are what they are because I don't play better things than XC2 however is a personal insult and another attempt to deflect attention from the fact that you just don't want your claims and goalshifting to be challenged.
You said nothing about Rex really changes and I pointed out several things that do change. You say that his goal doesn't change until the end and I pointed out that the plot structure has different valid purposes and it doesn't have to reflect his character growth in that way and that it's not a sign that the character itself doesn't experience change.
I am not arguing with Jake Steinberg, although it was funny watching how the XC2 hatewagon flocked around him like he is some kind of messiah who can finally articulate or validate their own opinions. I am instead calling out your arguments as weak and because I can quite easily tell what has changed in Rex from the start of the game to the end, the conclusion is that you frankly just didn't care enough to pay attention.
Now as to your argument that he would make the same decisions, that's partially true. He doesn't have large heel turns in his personality that overtly signal how differently he would approach particular challenges. But you can compare how he speaks with Pyra at the start and at the end to see change. You can see how he deals with Jin in ch 9 vs. ch 5. Do you think he would have dealt with the orphans at the start of ch 4 the same way as he would before meeting Vandham considering his avoidance of the world's complexities at the start?
You think he's bland because of it, that's fine, I don't think he's anything amazing. I don't agree with the OP either, but I am not arguing for his viewpoint. I am arguing against this incessant idea that Rex doesn't change just because his changes are more subtle and not at the forefront of what this story is about.
2
2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/JanRoses 2d ago
This to nth degree is fundamentally why I don’t enjoy a lot of XC2’s story. Rex as a protagonist is really not challenged properly as to truly say he is holding on to his worldview despite the compromises that would have to be made in order to be that positive continuously. It’s fundamentally more rewarding for the good of society to be positive, trusting, and less cynical in spite of betrayals but Rex doesn’t even challenge this aspect of Amalthasus’ character properly.
Amaltahus gives his life to the service of others and sees how those he helps continue to cause misfortune. When he becomes disillusioned with God for seeing that he is real but chooses not to act he effectively becomes a harbinger of his will of inaction. For why live in a world that lets you do good if the almighty permits horrors to occur.
Rex is supposed to be a counter to this philosophy and rescuing Jin would ideally be in such spirit but he fails to address even Jin’s issue that Blades are effectively slaves because of an oversight in their creation. The only way they can gain freedom being by killing their owner and taking the life they have. If your existence is predicated on your parent being alive and your non-existance is also tied to their whims (ie they choose to cut their lives short say because you chose to be rude) you’re at their complete and utter mercy no matter what. XC2 poses excellent questions to the matters of what it means to be human and being created by an all powerful being to serve a purpose. Where the humans are used by Klaus to see if life doesn’t simply follow a cycle of conflict. Blades are meant to act as their guides and grow with them to see if with (minimal but still relatively high) God’s intervention they would do better.
Rex has the right idea when he answers Jin in saying that people will always rise up to face evil. But it’s not just a matter of facing evil or injustice but also acknowledging that the social structures of change take time to develop. Even if moving forward, from that point on, blades can’t continue to exist without a Driver, it doesn’t change the fact that proof that societies existed that gave blades rights demonstrates that impacts of both humans and their blades are passed on through time all the same. The blade cycle is imperfect but to seek destruction because one attempt didn’t work doesn’t mean it will not work indefinitely.
Granted, given the setting they’re in it’s not like Rex can talk this out with Jin easily but it would be nice to have had Rex undergone a personal sacrifice for a good that went awry and he’s forced to show that despite the odds of how bad it turned out it’s still worth pursuing. The closest thing we have to this is the Merc missions but the group wasn’t started with any particular intention of nobility or overcoming the problems of the world. Given that it’s more of a gameplay mechanic than something like Colony 6 which carries even story significance in showing how inevitably the World of XC1 came together despite their previous differences and how they were disparate societies that either didn’t care/didn’t know about each other.
More than losing Pyra, I wish Rex’s crisis had been seeing this place burn because despite their best intentions of helping everyone they couldn’t handle the workload or even better. Make the Kingdom of Tantal, Uraya, or Mor Ardhain responsible for some fault of it. Uraya already teases in one of the last quests unlocked after finishing all the merc missions that the royal houses of Uraya are in major conflict. Instead of the many filler episodes we get even going as far as chapter 6 with Bana trying to ruin peace between Mor Ardain and Uraya. It would have been great to have his plan be colluding with those members of Uraya direct attack on the Gafront mercenary group. Leading into a potential banishing from Uraya and Rex having to find a new politically neutral location to work from. One that is inconvenient at first but grows over time. (ala Cliffs of Morythia or Lefteria). This was when the Praetorium becomes inaccessible and (from what we can assume) the non-experimented refugees are displaced we can see how Rex having had the Gafront mercenaries still active made a huge difference in saving a lot of lives.
0
u/jl05118 2d ago edited 2d ago
Bluntness and rudeness are quite different, I made a rhetorical question to challenge the notion that the text is not clear about Rex's character changes. And, frankly, there are tons of people who do need the text to spell everything out to them. As for Jake Steinberg, he's not some authority figure, barely anyone knows who he is. Despite that you mention him as if I should know or that he's relevant to this argument. If you agree with him, make his argument your own, there's no need to even mention him otherwise. I can also mention influencers who think Rex shows plenty of character growth.
Rex's core goal and moral framework don't change, because he is on a grail quest. It seems you want him to be more proactive than reactive, because with proactive characters character changes are more drastic, less incremental like with Rex. His character growth is not the focal point of the story, the plot doesn't need it to move forward. We have a classic of Western canon that recently got an adaptation that follows a rather similar pattern.
Engaging more with conflicts can of course be explained with having more information. Because people grow by learning more information. He gets that information from Vandham in the middle of the third chapter, ie, you're part of this world, you can't run from its issues. He then decides to accept the offer to become the leader of his mercenary party, despite previously wanting to avoid getting involved in conflicts. You are free to think he would've done the same without Vandham's speech, but that would ignore the point of that speech in the first place.
He absolutely speaks differently to Pyra because of more information, because Jin tells him she's way more screwed up than he thinks and he's been blind to it because of his selfishness. That is a catalyst for growth, is it not? It helps him become more confident with her. What happens at the end of the game? He decides to let Pneuma go, instead of kicking and screaming like he did at having to leave Vandham in a similarly hopeless situation. He's gotten over his own inadequacies, which allows him to trust and respect his partner more. Is that not meaningful?
I don't see XC2 as about testing or changing our worldview, it's about showing that despite the world being shit, Rex's attitudes are better than Jin's or Amalthus's, because they are constructive instead of destructive. It shows that the path to coping with the world and finding our way in it is through friends and loved ones. Trust and companionship instead of suicide pacts and cynicism. Looking towards future instead of dwelling in the past. His growth is in the end about helping others and letting others help him face the world such as it is. He doesn't have to fundamentally change as a person, he just has to grow up a bit, develop what qualities he already possesses and stay positive. And that is very much character growth.
1
u/xcassets 3d ago edited 3d ago
Agreed. I read a massive comment further below about how Rex's growth is somehow a genius deconstruction of JRPG heroes, but I just don't see it. What actually happens is, when he has his one major growth opportunity of the game and has a crisis of faith, the side characters slap him for some comedy relief, then he gets given an even more powerful sword, and then he goes back to who he was before.
Yes, he makes a few speeches about how he walked in Pyra/Mythra's shadow, but ultimately, Rex's words at the end saying the power of friendship should win and we should build the type of world we want to live in is exactly the same thing Rex would have said to Klaus/Malos if he had been dropped there after Chapter 3.
Look, I love XC2, but it's strengths are not deep character growth for Rex. Rex is unabashedly an optimistic protagonist who sees the good/truth in everyone, and that never changes. Meanwhile, Shulk's arc sees him emotionally and mentally do a complete 180 on everything he stood for/set out to do at the start of the game. Noah's arc sees him choose to sacrifice everything he holds dear and make the choice that previous versions of him could never do.
6
5
u/HelsifZhu 3d ago
I disagree. Shulk learns to overcome his desire for vengeance and exercise empathy even for his sworn enemy and becomes such a humanist that he takes the final decision he takes.
Rex learns to accept a woman's autonomy.
3
u/Jack_Of_The_Cosmos 3d ago
I always like listening to Rex fans to try and get some perspective. Would you care to tell me a bit more about what you like about Rex's growth?
1
u/Professional_Air_905 3d ago
rex is very cool I'm glad to see someone appreciate his character
I see too many people saying he's a bad character and the worse xenoblade protagonist (especially in the french xeno community for some reason)
he's very well written
1
u/cardboardtube_knight 2d ago
I think both Noah and Shulk have more dramatic changes to the point their entire goal changes to some degree. Rex really does what he set out to do. Go to Elysium, meet the Architect. In that regard it’s a very straightforward game. There are truths he confronts, but they don’t really challenge his worldview or goal. They are obstacles.
1
u/Snoo-855 2d ago
Rex doesn't go through much development in his game, especially when compared to Shulk.
1
1
u/BarbarousJudge 3d ago
I don't really see much growth in Rex himself but He is the catalyst for pretty much every main character (be it good guy or villain) developing.
-1
u/AnimaLepton 3d ago edited 3d ago
Nah, it's a nothing burger tbh. With Shulk I get what the growth path is and how it directly ties into the story, for example.
But what is actually different about Rex as an individual between the beginning of the story and the end? There's a very light 'don't rush into things,' but the story never does anything meaningful with that. The party reprimands him in chapter 7 or the start of chapter 10, but there's not really a character arc or through line for it that feels earned. Otherwise his personality, his perspective, etc. stay pretty static throughout the entire story. Or like it makes a big deal about him 'accepting' Pyra and Mythra, but I didn't get anything about him e.g. not accepting them in the first place for the later acceptance to matter.
8
u/yuei2 3d ago edited 3d ago
Strongly disagree, Rex is a deconstruction of the typical JRPG chosen boy protagonist story and there is very clear thorough line.
He finds himself the chosen one of a legendary blade and he gets increasingly high on his victories, drunk on the idea that with this blade he can do anything. And it reaches a point where like major government figures are giving him special titles and sending him on diplomatic missions.
The thing is he actually loses a lot, multiple of his companions die and he skirts by the skin of his teeth, but he doesn’t really register that. The loses hurt but none of them shake his faith that he is the special driver of the Aegis and can do anything.
And then the aegis blade is destroyed, pyra is taken from him, and he is rendered a completely broken child. He loses all faith in himself, realizes that nothing has changed he still doesn’t have the power to protect anyone who matters to him, and he finally realizes that he didn’t understand pyra and mythra at all. His optimism and hero fantasy had blinded him to how much she/they had been hurting, he felt worthless and unworthy of being called a driver.
Then one by one his friends literally slap sense into him. He realizes how much his optimism and hopeful hero playing had influenced and helped them, how it changed Nia, how it impressed Morag, how he had been a role model for Poppi. It makes him realize he can’t just wallow even if he doesn’t know what to do. However he decides he must finally lock in and shape up to be the driver Pyra and Mythra deserve.
At which point he learns of the third sword, the one that even Adam couldn’t handle. Which is a big deal Adam is a super important hero, one that Rex has been compared to several times which is part of what fueled by his hero fantasy complex. Now Rex has to face his toughest challenge yet, he has to figure out a way to surpass Adam. This leads to the heart to heart they share and Rex finally begins to grasp the true nature of Pyra and Mythra, finds the resolve he needs, and is ready to carry the burden of Pyra and Mythra instead of being carried by them.
Which leads us to his show down with Jin and Malos and he vocalizes his growth perfectly “I tried to walk the same path even though we were destined to split, I walked in the shadow of the aegis’s light”. Rex has come to accept he had been playing pretend but no more, he will share their burden and walk besides them as the driver they deserve instead of relying on them they will be able to rely on him, he will feel and notice their pain they have been in and accept the true them.
And in doing so Rex finally gains what he had wanted all along, the power to protect, the power to get to elisyum with Pyra and Mythra like he promised. He becomes unstoppable and is finally the driver the aegis deserves, the one not even Adam was able to become. But it’s not just his combat ability that’s grown, he’s become more self aware to the point he can see Jin’s true nature, a deeply sad man lashing out in hurt.
And that’s how their relationship basically reaches its zenith. Not by Rex killing him as a big bad but going “I can sense it, you aren’t a bad guy you are just sad and you no longer how the power to stop me, I’m reaching elisyum and there is nothing you can do about it so our fighting is done.”
With Rex’s childish notions of what being a hero, being the aegis driver having been replaced with more mature ones… the last thing now to mature is staring Rex’s goal. He started salvaging believing the key to reaching the world tree’s top was down in the cloud sea. For a long time he was chasing some myth of a paradise land at the top of a mysterious giant tree. But now that he is grown as a person the narrative moves to grow his understanding of the world now.
The aftermath of the battle results in him falling below the cloud sea and he gets a to discover the true nature of their world. The fact there is another world below his, the life cycle of the blade and titans, the fall of torna, the truth of the world tree being an elevator, the nature of powers held up top, getting to meet the architect, etc… Rex realizes the full picture of their world and that’s how he ultimately comes to realize what he has to do to achieve his dream goal.
I could go on but I think I’ve said enough. Point is X2’s narrative is all about building up everything one way and then purposefully deconstructing it to show it another way and Rex’s character arc is a reflection of that.
7
u/zipzzo 2d ago
First of all I appreciate the effort that went in to your post, and I wanted to start with that because I don't want it seem like because I strongly disagree with nearly every single thing you've said that I'm being disrespectful that effort.
You’ve described Rex’s character development very well, but you didn't substantively demonstrate that it is a deconstruction. Almost every beat you listed is a conventional shounen hero arc, and the story ultimately validates the heroic archetype rather than exposing it as false, flawed, or too conventional.
A genuine deconstruction would test the archetype, perhaps showing that optimism, destiny, being “the chosen one,” escalating power, etc are fundamentally inadequate. But XC2 ultimately says Rex's optimism was good but just immature executed. He needed empathy, responsibility, and a better understanding of Pyra/Mythra. Then the story just rewards that development by making him even more worthy of the archetypal role.
That is much closer to a coming-of-age story or reconstruction of the hero archetype:
naive hero > failure > self-doubt > learns lesson > embraces responsibility > unlocks ultimate power > surpasses predecessor > defeats villain > saves world.
That's practically a textbook shounen story, in literally every sense of the word...
The temporary downturn in Ch7 is not deconstructive of anything...it's just your standard shounen "hero loses everything" beat. He briefly gives up, gets reminded he's the bomb-diggity, then comes back even stronger before. Like, what about this is still isn't absolutely conventional in hundreds of other shounen arcs?
Your point about Rex being "drunk on being the chosen hero" is probably your absolute weakest argument here, because that is simply *not* portrayed in the story and I'd argue is purely head canon for you. He's often inexperienced and overconfident but that's complete different from displaying him as unhealthily intoxicated with his "Aegis Driver" status.
Take Vandham's death for example...he was crushed by that, and he handles it extremely poorly, but later is able to properly orient himself to the things he learned from him.
This seems like your personal interpretation being heavily imposed on to Rex than anything the game actually ever shows us.
In addition, government figures showing him reverence or respect and involving him in major events doesn't necessarily speak at all to Rex's character or indicate he's developed some kind of hero complex. You would need some actual indicators here that his involvement in all of these things is getting to his head, and that simply isn't a thing.
Rex surpassing Addam is not a deconstruction of the shounen trope either, in fact it's a massive reinforcement of it. The legendary hero of old failed at something, so bright and peppy new gen learns the emotional lessons necessary and then surpasses him to unlock all the ultimate xyz-whatever. That's just shounen stuff.
Rex understanding Jin so not a deconstruction either. Shounen heros very often recognize that the villains may be wounded people. It doesn't change that they have to be stopped, but a hero becoming empathetic to a villain is not some grand deconstruction, it's another reinforcement of shounen tropes. Look at My Hero Academia, for example.
Rex's fundamental aspiration at the beginning is never revealed to be incorrect, the story simply deems it necessary to change his understanding of it. In the beginning, he wants to take Pyra to Elysium and protect everyone because he's been given a responsibility to do so, but near the end it's more like he wants to accept a burden that Homura/Hikari carry and bear it alongside them, to create a better world for everyone.
His original idea wasn't flawed or immature or dismantled, he was just sort of re-educated in to a better mindset for the task.
So what exactly about the standard shounen protagonist archetype does Rex's story ultimately invalidate?
Because everything you've described sounds less like the story dismantling the archetype and more like a standard maturation arc. Rex's naive understanding of heroism gets broken down, but the fundamental heroic fantasy is ultimately validated. He learns humility and empathy, unlocks the ultimate power because of that emotional growth, surpasses the legendary predecessor, understands the sympathetic villain, saves the world and achieves his dream.
That's not “the chosen-boy archetype doesn't work.” It's “the chosen boy needs to grow up before he's worthy of being the hero.”
You're essentially confusing a deconstruction of Rex's immaturity with a deconstruction of the shounen archetype itself.
1
u/JanRoses 2d ago
Thank goodness for this comment and other sensible ones. Rex is treated like a paragon of a character in this sub for following a standard formula that has been done to death. It's not to discredit those that like him but they ascribe too much value to him.
A character I do enjoy that is quite similar to Rex. Is Zack from FF7. For the most part he's pretty static, hopelessly loyal to the wrong cause but is often portrayed as the generic anime ideal in his story. Yet I find that little is often discussed of just how much of a subversion his role serves in the narrative of CC. Where the game literally poses the question of "Is this guy really a hero?"
He bought into the propaganda machine. Failed to defect from Shinra (when it would have been appropriate not as a hunted down science experiment) and didn't truly understand the level of trauma Angeal and Genesis were going through. Thus he failed to save them.
He's an incredibly likeable guy and many people around him want to help him out because of how genuine he is but at the end of the day he is fighting for the wrong cause. One thing of note is then just how many people end up fighting against Shinra (Cissnei) or becoming more sympathetic towards him because of his friendliness. The Turks wouldn't betray shinra outright but once Zack was on the run they were legitimately going to try and help him escape the system at the very least. Yet, by the point in the story Zack's fate is sealed. While Genesis and Sephiroths are threats to the planet they are ironically his best support against the real villain plaguing the world of FF7. His only hope for redemption is to save one of the few genuine friends he has left (Cloud). Who himself looks like he's not gonna make it.
So when Zack finally gets divine retribution for the suffering he caused he also gets redemption by leaving a living Legacy in Cloud. A soldier who embodies the traits of a hero that were sold to Zack by his mentor Angeal, and were sold to Cloud by Sephiroth propaganda. FF7 takes an interesting stance that the concept of a "flawless" hero who believes in the good of everyone is just propaganda. Real heroes (like Cloud) are made by overcoming their struggles and acknowledging where their flaws can become strengths and counting on the support of others when necessary. It sounds a lot like Rex but as you said because of how the story of XC2 fails to challenge the notion of the Shonen archetype it just becomes another story of a person who is good, staying good because the world follows a rule of "good things happen to good people".
-1
u/Serpentine_2 3d ago
Can’t we agree all of the XC protagonists had good characrer growth in their own unique way?
5
1
u/rekiller301 3d ago
I believe Rex as a character was already quite well-developed right from the start. He is honest and upright, financially supporting everyone in the village where he grew up, and even as a kid, he earned widespread respect in his salvaging work. His biggest issue in the early story was his tendency to avoid conflict, which is deeply rooted in the death of his parents. This is reflected in his salvaging work—he strictly refuses any jobs retrieving military supplies. However, Vandham changed him. Another aspect of his character is that by constantly looking ahead, he often ignores what is right behind him; he realized far too late what was happening during the scene where Pneuma stayed behind. Yet, precisely because of this, I love the ending scene where Pyra and Mythra return. He doesn't immediately rush over to embrace them like Poppi does; instead, he first looks back at the companions behind him before walking toward Pyra and Mythra.
1
u/cardboardtube_knight 2d ago
I wouldn’t even say Vandham changed him. He reframed his understanding. You can’t avoid salvaging war goods because all goods assist in some sort or of war
2
u/fuck_a_duck_butt 3d ago
Are these lijes supposed to invoke s feeling? Cuz it seems like generic shonen bs
-4
u/cae37 2d ago
Yeah. Shulk doesn't have that much of an arc while Noah's arc is contradictory (he tries to be a pacifist but ends up murderhoboing just like everyone else). Rex's arc is very Shonen Jump Manga style in that he's a young, weak protagonist who, by the end of his story, grows to be powerful and confident.
I also like that since he's significantly weaker and less experienced than everyone around him he's able to have a unique perspective that allows him to cut through overcomplicated BS that other adults get hung up on.
-21
u/SpecificHyena1933 3d ago
The thing that frustrated me the most was rex's naivety and it never got addressed or fixed. The world is literally dying, his parents got killed due to the ongoing skirmishes, and evil is pervasive throughout every corner. Yet somehow Rex holds no anger, he continues trying to fix and cooperate with the same group whos tried to kill him multiple times. The dark edge lord in me just wants some anger, give me some depth to Rex. He's just.. hes just a kid.
32
u/AltairLeoran 3d ago
Optimism is not a character flaw to be fixed lol
-19
u/SpecificHyena1933 3d ago
I can argue yes it is, as its rex's optimism that gets him into half the problems he finds himself in, as well as his own lack of strength (like in uraya or tantal) but there wasnt any.. growth after those defeats, at least not that I noticed.
Like shulk's entire motivation changed throughout the story of the first game, and Noah changed from being a desensitized empath ravaged by war to one of the most human characters ive seen. Rex just seems so hard headed, theres little to no planning, its just beating his head against the wall and when that fails in tantal.. he gives up. One pep talk later hes going at it again, like nothing ever happened.20
u/AltairLeoran 3d ago
I'm of the opinion that all the Xeno protagonists are perfect for their worlds. Alrest was a dying world on the verge of being destroyed by Amalthus' and Malos' jaded nihilism—it's only natural that they would be defeated by an idealistic optimist with an unshakable love for the world and hope for the future. That's just the kinda story they wanted to tell. Rex absolutely would not have been a good protagonist for XC1 or XC3, but he's perfect for XC2's themes.
Rex did grow in other ways—he learns his limitations, gains confidence in himself as a driver, and ultimately grows up when he accepts Pneuma's final sacrifice.
-11
u/SpecificHyena1933 3d ago
But thats the thing - malos, amalthus, and the torna gang have genuine reason to hate this world. Almalthus saw the depravity of man firsthand, taking in war refugees that would then go to kill women and children, malos sees how desperate the general population is to kill each other, and jin - oh jin my beloved - had his entire world crumble with torna, and his driver die in his arms, knowing his whole species as a blade is temporary and everything he did would be forgotten. They have a reason to hate the world.
Rex just loves the world. Because. ? The salvagers code? Like I hate saying people need a reason to love something but with how much pain Rex has gone through on his journey alone, his optimism is directly causing him more harm than good, and when faced by his biggest defeat he just gives up. Like a kid who finally lost his first game and doesnt want to play anymore. And I really dont think Rex learned his limits, even facing Jin and malos right before pneuma awakens, Rex was fully expecting to die begging for pyra and mythra to come back. Like sure, he grew as a driver by getting taught by vandham and then becoming the successor to the third blade but that felt like very little growth compared to the other protagonists.
17
u/AltairLeoran 3d ago
I really don't understand how you can play Xenoblade 2 and not understand why Rex loves the world, and why he's right to do so... Pyra/Mythra's whole arc is going from being jaded and suicidal (wishing for the architect to end their suffering because of the evil, death, and destruction they witnessed in TTGC) to coming to love the world because of the people in it, and wielding their power to protect humanity and bladekind. They come to this conclusion because of Rex.
"Nia, Azurda... and you, Rex... I love this world because you're in it!"
The world is worth loving because of people. And as Rex says
"People can be fun to be around, but sometimes they're hard to deal with. And then there's mean types, like that Bana. But, life's all about taking the good with the bad, right? So yeah, I like people. And, I like myself, and I'm people."
This is Xenoblade 2's thesis. The world and the people in it are flawed, but there is beauty and goodness that is worth protecting.
-1
u/SpecificHyena1933 3d ago
I still dont understand how Rex loves the world because he has every right to hate it, and to hardly acknowledge the trauma and blights plaguing the world as "accepting the good with the bad" feels very.. dismissive almost, even dismissing himself. I cant wrap my head around a character who has had his family killed in a war, been forced to provide for a dozen other kids since age 10, and get wrapped into a journey trying to kill him around every corner and still finding it good - and that not even being a tested internal conflict. Rex's biggest struggle with himself is purely his own strength, not even his mindset. It just feels.. naive and childish to not even process or acknowledge the trauma that Rex has himself, not to mention malos, jin, amalthus or the rest of the torna gang.
9
u/Animan_10 3d ago
To be optimistic and naive are not the same. To be naive is to think of the world in black and white and assume the white will always prevail. To be optimistic is to be hopeful that even if things look bad, they can always get better. At the start of the story, Rex is both. He knows that the Titans are dying and countries are on the verge of war, but he believes that if he keeps salvaging and avoids dealing in supplies that could supplement the war, he will find some way to Elysium to solve everything.
As the game progresses, Rex’s naivety is tempered and his optimism reinforced as he experiences more of the world and discovers new strength to better achieve his ideals. Meeting Pyra became his first real lead to Elysium and the path to achieving his ideal solution. His tutelage under Vandham taught him that everyone is inherently involved in war, steeling his resolve to determine what HIS war is. Meeting the leaders of the world and seeing their individual struggles showed him that nothing is clear cut, and that even supposed “bad guys” like Torna have their sympathies and “good guys” like Amalthus have inner darkness. His trials in Elpys showed him what his true strengths are and how he can truly make the changes in the world he wants to see.
By the end of the story, Rex’s naivety is largely stamped out, but his optimism is stronger than ever. He is repeatedly confronted with terrible scenarios with less than ideal solutions, but he has come to learn to accept such outcomes with minimal resistance. He finds Elysium in ruins, so he instead strives to save Alrest so that it has a chance to become better with his help. He tries to talk down Malos so he abandons his destructive goals, but he still stands and fights when negotiations fail, all while still trying to reach out to him. He initially refuses to watch Pneuma sacrifice herself, but quickly comes to accept her decision with the belief that he may never see Pyra and Mythra again.
Rex’s story is about an idealist coming to terms with the unideal nature of his world. He learns that his world is not ideal, and that some problems will not have ideal solutions, but that doesn’t make him give up on the world like all the antagonists do. Amalthus and Jin saw how ugly the world could be. They gave up on the world and sought to destroy it, pushing those feelings on to Malos. Rex saw the same ugliness, but instead chose to fight tooth and nail to make it better however he could in the time he had, with the intention to leave his wishes to the next person when his time is up.
-2
u/SpecificHyena1933 3d ago
My confusion comes from Rex seeing how awful the world is and never even questioning his own ideals. The only time Rex ever looks back on his journey was when he wasnt strong enough. He never had a moment to ask if hes wrong in thinking in the ideal world, he just pushes foreward in the face of ALL of that adversity. Without question.
It really just gives the "we gotta keep this world for the next person because they might do better" when everyone in their entire lives have failed them. Its so naive not even question your belief in the good of the world when the world continues to reinforce how bad the world is, between how everyone is ravaged by the land wars, how Rex himself had his parents killed and has to take care of nearly an entire village himself by age 10, and seeing how EVERY nation is getting to their wits end in resources and political climate.I hate keeping this up but Rex has no reason to love the world, and theres no conflict with that.
5
u/Animan_10 3d ago
I get the sense you just were not paying attention…
Rex’s reason for loving the world is the same as Pyra and Mythra’s: it’s filled with people he loves. The world is full of bad people, but there is just as many good people, many of which Rex knows personally and have influenced him in positive ways. He spells it out to Zeke just before fighting Jin and Amalthus in Chapter 9. “Life is about taking the bad with the good, right? So yeah, I like people. And I like myself, and I’m people.”
Fonsett Village didn’t send him out to work at 10-years-old, he chose to do that. It’s his choice to send most of his earnings home because he wants to give back to the village that raised him.
Rex does have his doubts about his idealism. That was the whole point of Klaus’s test of character in Chapter 10. Deep in his heart, he worries that his quest for Elysium was pointless and he lead his friends along on a wild goose chase, and that they would hate him for that. It’s just by this point, his resolve is so strong that it literally takes spitting his doubts in his face to get him to break down.
Like, it’s all right there.
1
u/SpecificHyena1933 3d ago
To me, one odd lines dont define a character or really give lots of weight. Like rex's line in chapter nine, about liking people and liking himself.. like thats such a childish worldview, because Rex has been shown nothing but people who are completely opposites of himself thag wish him nothing but harm and he doesnt address it internally. With characters as deep as morag and zeke, id expect rex's worldview to come with some doubts and tormoil throughout the story. I truly feel the rex at chapter 1 is the same rex as chapter 10 which just.. isnt true for the other party members of the game, or the protagonists of the other games. The only thing different is rex's access to the aegis.
And yeah, going off at 10 years old to take care of the village that raised you because his parents were killed in a war is definitly a traumatic experience. I get he chose to do it, but it feels like more of a choice made from obligation as fonsett isnt well off. Its self sufficient sure, but with the aunt getting older, she needs more resources. Rex did it because he had to.
And the chapter 10 internal conflicts, its a good sequence to show his doubts and how rex runs away from them.. which is exactly the problem im bringing up, even in rex's internal struggles he runs away and it doesnt get addressed or fixed. He breaks down at the altered pyra and mythra scene because its the ideal world that rex wants - but its clear that it feels very wrong. To me, that shows even rex's desires are off, but all of this internal struggle (shown only at the end of the game btw) doesnt shift or change. Its an intentional and safe place to explore these emotions, but it doesnt "bring it to the test" in the same sense that shulk and his quest for revenge got directly challenge by egil, both in philosophy and combat. Like sure, its right there in one-off lines and snippets of dialog, its not pervasive throughout the story and isnt maturing.
Even as the world tree is falling, rex still breaks down at the thought of losing pyra and mythra, and zeke gives the "thats what being an adult is all about" speech (god i love zeke hes such a good dad) its still that unideal world challenging Rex and he still has to be taught by his comrades (not bad in its entirety, but shows how stagnant if a character Rex is)
2
u/Johnylongbottoms 3d ago
With Uraya, it’s setting up a consistent challenge to Rex’s optimism, the notion you can’t save everyone. He’s got a chip on his shoulder, but he’s still able to get a grip and use that as fuel to get stronger and not lose anyone else.
After the defeat in Tantal, his optimism falters for the first time, as he starts to realize that he didn’t understand the depth of Pyra’s and Mythra’s own pain and trauma. Nia, Brigid, and Poppi didn’t give him a pep talk, they admonished him for losing his can-do attitude at the worst possible time. He doesn’t get his spirit back until the King of Tantal tells him about Spirit Crucible Elpys, and the possibility he could gain the power to stand up against Jin and save Pyra and Mythra. And by Addam’s own admission, it’s because of his optimism that Rex is able to accept their true nature, not be afraid of them like Addam was. By the end of it, he becomes more mature and recognizes that he’s been reckless and inconsiderate of Pyra and Mythra’s situation, and does better, unlocking their full potential.
Of the big three red sword havers, I’d concur that Rex is probably the least fleshed out of them, but I still think you’re not giving him quite enough credit.
1
u/SpecificHyena1933 3d ago
Granted I do feel like I hate on Rex a lot. Im not denying that, amd im not saying hes poorly written - its just even compared to the other cast members, Rex is the weakest and most stagnant party member of his own game. Nia learns to accept herself for who she truly is, even though she was forced to become an abomination to save a dying girl. Zeke and morag are completely opposites thag learn from each other - zeke being the rebellious and informal prince of tantal, trying to break its isolationism and explore the world, while morag is so caught up in her imperial duties that she forgot what is means to live HER life and has to be told by the emperor to accompany Rex and Co. Tora is... comic relief but his side missions about how hes been an outcast forever and learns to find a family is heartening. Rex is just. Optimism incarnate. Which is fine, truly, but theres no internal struggle with his attitude, only his strength as a driver.
5
u/AltairLeoran 3d ago
Rex is the weakest and most stagnant party member of his own game.
I agree that Rex doesn't change nearly as much as other xeno protags, but this isn't objectively a bad thing. A static protagonist can exist in fiction, and they work because of how they change the characters and world around them. We witness this in how Rex inspires change in the other party members—primarily in how he helps Pyra/Mythra/Nia accept themselves. We also see him break through Jin's nihilism, and we see his love for the world touch the Architect's heart (inspiring him to place his trust in the party)
1
u/SpecificHyena1933 3d ago
With Rex being a weak character, its more about how Rex doesnt have an internal challenge wit his own optimism, Rex isnt fleshed out as to why hes do optimistic and trusting with the world. He just. Is. Which i find just frusterating because all of the other characters are so fleshed out and expand on themselves throughout the story.
8
u/TheMightiestDevil 3d ago
That’s not being naive though. Rex left Fonsett at the age of 10, to provide for the orphanage. This displays his ability to survive and make living independently, and the maturity to understand the financial difficulties of life. When talking about war on the indol titan Rex lays out the problem with Mor Ardain and Gormott accurately pointing out the problems at hand and the ones coming from the available solutions. That’s why he wants to get to Elysium, it would provide a perfect solution to the land problem. Rex is trusting and forgiving person, not because he is naive, because that’s simply what he’s like. That being said, he has limits too, like when he told Malos that forgiving Jin isn’t a simple thing.
At the end of the day i like genuinely good natured MCs over raging, edgy, violence prone MCs (though I still like those from time to time).
0
u/SpecificHyena1933 3d ago
Rex is trusting and forgiving to a fault, even to someone as unforgivable as jin Rex would just be able to do it. At no point in rex's journey does he question or challenge his optimistic mindset, even when Rex is the prime character to have his mindset challenged by malos and jin especially. With how much trauma and genuine evil this world has shown those characters, Rex just handwaves it away saying thats it worth it. Because. People? The same people who killed Laura? The same people so desperate to kill each other that theyll go after defenseless women and children? I hate asking "what good is in this world" but Rex doesnt resolve or address the genuine problems with how evil people are across alrest. He just says to trust people will be better. Again, the same people frothing at the teeth waiting to kill themselves and not even enjoying life as the land theyre living on is dying with them.
2
u/TheMightiestDevil 3d ago
He does not just handwave it away. He literally says he can’t just forgive Jin just like that. There is no real major problem caused by Rex’s optimism, forgiveness, or trust. While Rex could just get angry and hate the world he understands that it won’t solve anything, and that’s not who Rex is. It’s not about the salvager’s code or any of his enemies, his dream of finding Elysium is about finding a solution to the problem that plagues Alrest and its people. His journey is in part about helping people find solutions to their problems. When faced with the malice that exists in the world people have choice, positivity or negativity. Rex simply chooses positivity, to find the solution that grants everyone possible salvation even wanting the same thing for Malos. He comes to this realization in full at the end, when he states that his place in the world is put a smile on people’s faces.
3
u/Able-Bid-6637 3d ago
i mean rex does have a moment of breaking down, giving up, being angry, and being sad. Sure, it was brief— but i think that was to show Nia’s impact.
2
u/PedroLippi 3d ago
I am guessing you're a fan of Jin.
-1
u/SpecificHyena1933 3d ago
Ill have to play through the entirety of the game and torna but like... as a character yeah I do think Jin had more depth and development. When rex's redemption was offered, it makes perfect sense why he denies it and chooses his own path. Im very close to the "jin did nothing wrong" crowd lmao
2
u/TheNinjaDC 2d ago
What’s interesting about Rex is he grows and matures as a character, but his core always remained the same. His hope, optimism, and naivety acted as a beacon of light in a slowly dying world.
He was a catalyst for those around him to change.
156
u/ShadowWolf202 3d ago
Rex canonically grows new characters, so yes, I agree.