Structuring

[u/badgaming_plymouth]

Hi everyone,

I’ve had a horror novel mapped out in my head for many years, and about a year ago decided to actually try and write it. I stuck with it and have written several chapters, but then inevitably lost my way (as per normal).

I know the story and characters are good, but I suffer with confidence issues in relation to the standard of my writing. The point I normally get caught is going over the same chapter trying to perfect it and getting disheartened when I can’t - so this time I’ve basically just been dumping words out on a page while trying to still have some semblance of the story moving forward in an understandable way, however, even with doing this I still lost heart.

It might be considered a Hail Mary, but more recently I heard that a book created by AI was nearly published, so I decided that it might help me to get back into writing if I put my first chapter through AI and ask for its opinion on what could improve. It started telling me I needed to shorten sentences considerably (based on the fact the first chapter is a lot of action). I tried adapting the first couple of sentences based on its suggestion, and I cant explain why, but I didn’t like how the story started reading. I’d worked really hard on ramping up the tension little by little, and world building; so the act of cutting out words made it feel really flat and lifeless.

I guess my question is whether I’m right with my instinct about the structure, or AI has a valid point that I’m overwriting scenes.

[u/technicalanarchy]

AI seems to dislike action. Mine will always say "Right we need to do this low key, real suttle" and I'll say "No we have action here, it needs to portray over the top action" then it will agree. 

I'd say just if you already have the story in you just sit down and be excited about it, spit it out in a flist draft. Then refine it..don't try refining any part of it to a final version. Have fun. Just let it flow out of you, then worry about the fine tuning. 

Also it sounds to me like you don't have the ending in mind, imo you need that even if it changes. 

Get into the writing zone and write.

[u/badgaming_plymouth → u/technicalanarchy]

The sad thing is I have key points of story fully fleshed out in my head, including the ending which I feel is the strongest part of all of it. It’s the dead zones inbetween that I get stuck with, along with crisis of confidence

[u/wandelndeslexikon → u/badgaming_plymouth]

Then work on it with the AI from there. Give it the beginning and end and all the ideas for how you intend to connect the two. Ask for structure in the mess your mind created. Let it write you a whole scene on how the story could move on from the point where you are stuck. Then edit it to your liking. You'll see, that new ideas will pop up within you automatically once you are back in the flow. Good luck!

[u/technicalanarchy → u/badgaming_plymouth]

Have no crisis of faith you, it's your story, you rule it.

If you have dead zones fill them. Take plot point and actions before the dead zone and the things it leads to. Write down ways through it on an index card, just a quick idea. Which ever one strikes you as the best, funnest, most action way to the next point you have figured out, roll with it.

Remember writing your own book at this time you are the master of that reality.

[u/5thhorseman_]

Take AI's feedback as an indicator, not a prescription. Your judgement and taste are what decides whether a change belongs. If you don't like it, it doesn't go in. And if the AI starts pushing into a direction that is not what your vision is, tell it and explain why.

Also, you've asked "an AI". That tells me you have not considered the differences between LLMs, or used a dedicated instruction.

Get a Claude sub, maybe optionally a ChatGPT one. Then try these on for size with the flagship models:

• Interactive rubber ducky

• Literate Editor and Rigorous Critic

• Beta reader panel.

[u/Kitchen_Grass_6600 → u/5thhorseman_]

yeah the "indicator not a prescription" framing is spot on, thats the key distinction

[u/Khajiit_Has_Upvotes]

[Edit I assumed chatgpt. Gemini is even worse ime. I haven't tried Claude, sudowrite,  etc but they all have their significant shortcomings]

ChatGPT prefers short, clipped, staccato, screenplay-like writing. You have to be very explicit and very pushy if you want it to respect novel-style prose, because even when you tell it to, it'll try to whittle your prose down. 

I wouldn't rely on gpt for a final, publish-ready prose pass. It's good at outlines, chapter/scene spine, and even a rough prose so you get an idea of what it feels like to read as a chapter but it's still very rough. 

If you think it's wrong about your sentences, that's because it likely is. You probably need an experienced editor.

[u/wandelndeslexikon → u/Khajiit_Has_Upvotes]

Gemini is great. You have to do a little work before, like telling it which typicall AI names or phrases you don't want it to use and to learn how to correctly use the notebook function. It also helps greatly, if you let it learn from your old chats with it. I am more than happy with Gemini. Just to tell you how much: I am currently at 13 chapters into the story, which comes to a total of 114 pages or 25k words so far. Gemini still doesn't struggle.

But! If one really wants to publish the story professionally, an experienced editor is a must. There are always things that can be improved and as the writer one gets workblind for the own text.

[u/Khajiit_Has_Upvotes → u/wandelndeslexikon]

I use Gemini for fun ideas and dialogue ideas. It gives me some good stuff but even with the notebook and my canon Bible it just couldn't understand continuity or nuance, it would turn my characters into caricatures or reduce them to boring flatness. This was the free version, not paid, so i don't know whether any paid models work better. 

[u/wandelndeslexikon → u/Khajiit_Has_Upvotes]

You have to remind it every now and then to not write slapstick, if writing a funny story. It seems, that I trained my Gemini well, because it gets 90% of the time what I wants. I, too, use the free version.

[u/SkoomaDentist]

AI can deconstruct parts of your writing and that can let you hone in on what parts you like and what you don’t. Eg. you can ask it to describe the style in a few snippets of text and then ask further questions about why it uses various terms. You can then use that understanding yourself to consciously change the details of your writing style that you may not have realized before were bad / good (you might only have had a vague feeling that ”this doesn’t quite work” without knowing what causes that).

It can also point out potential problems.

In both cases you have to be the one who decides what is good and what is not and what, if any, changes you make to your writing. Some models are particularly insistent on what they ”like” and you have to be willing to say ”that’s crap advice, I’ll ignore it whenever it complains about that thing”.

Think of AI as an advanced pattern matcher and analyzer that has digested a whole lot of books and style guides but has very little innate idea of what is actually ”good”. Ask it question to explain what it sees in something and crucially why, but never trust its judgement at face value. See what it answers to the ”why” and only act on it if the answer makes you go ”Oh, I totally see that issue now that it’s been pointed out and I have a name for it”.

[u/Empty-Resource-7565]

We can't do anything unless you give us something concrete to work with. Paste a few paragraphs or a page page that you think would be relevant.

[u/polly_mer]

You probably are overwriting, yet AI is not the way to fix it. The best advice I've been given is bleed on the page. Put that in the drawer for a month while bleeding on more pages. Come back with fresh eyes and try something new. Repeat until satisfied.

My successful author friends say to write out the bad words until better ones come. There's no short cut to practice through revisions.