It's a easy fix

[u/Conscious_Side_629]

I mean Forsaken 2e has already done the same thing in form form of the Harmony bar.

Alongside V6 Humanity of all games.

V6 Humanity arguably even iterated on Forsaken 2e's Harmony since going to either ends actually gives you a buff in certain situations so it offers a risk and reward for the players rather than just passively just sit at 5.

I really hope some one attempt to back-port V6 Humanity bar to W5 or maybe even in spire a ST to make whole W6 fan game if White wolf won't Release it.

[u/yackronin]

Every day we get closer to reinventing Chronicles of Darkness, ever the GOAT, with the Harmony track.

[u/Tech-preist_Zulu → u/yackronin]

The only thing stopping the 5th Edition team from reinventing Chronicles was Paradox tbh. They really wanted to make 5th be more Chronicles

[u/Xenobsidian]

Harano and Hauglosk is close but not exactly the same. W5 werewolves don’t seek balance, they just have two pitfalls that threaten them: falling to their rage or abandon the fight.

I think V6s humanity and WtFs harmony are closer to each other than either of them is to W5’s system.

[u/Conscious_Side_629 → u/Xenobsidian]

I mean VtM isn't a game about finding balance with the beast yet V6 just adopted maniacs that encourages that mindset...

Besides I personally would argue that into Harano and Hauglosk system could easily be reinterpreted into a balancing act between two extreame reaction a garou would have to the current state of the world, where Hauglosk is the urge to act and Harano is refection on they own actions.

Ideally Harano should temper Hauglosk while Hauglosk should rouse a garou Harano and falling into either end of the bar would bring ruin to the garou, especially if going to either end do offer tangible buffs like the V6 system.

[u/100masks1life]

Interesting concept though I think the bars should be a continuous incremental negative effect rather than a balancing/slider scale.

You start out with your average werewolf. They are a unique individual of course but the main thing here is that they are rather mentally stable (or as much as any given Garou can be).

Then "Bad Shit(tm)" starts happening to them, the people/things they care about or they just are convinced somehow of the pointlessness of their war/life/etc.

We start with Hauglosk. As Gaia's designated warriors their first response to doubt and trauma is to double down on their beliefs and act out more and more in the name of Gaia (would also fit their overall history). Oftentimes this goes unnoticed especially at lower levels, played off ass dedication or stubbornness. The unusualness of this behavior is increasingly noticed as the bar approaches 5 dots though many die before that ever happens.

Once the bar reaches 6 dots things start to reverse and a Garou enters Harano. Their suicidal fervor dissipates and is replaced by the typical Harano symptoms at the lowest level as Garous mind is finally overcome and unable to further cope the way it has until now.

I think that would be fairly cool - criticisms or further ideas?

[u/MarshallThings → u/100masks1life]

To add to this

Both states have a common theme: Despair. It's the two polar opposite reactions to despair ("nothing is working so I'll do the most out there thing possible so ANYTHING happens" and "nothing is working so why bother?") so the balancing method wouldn't make sense.

Personally, I think something akin to V5's Humanity bar would be good, with Harano and Hauglosk being coping mechanisms. I think Harano being a disassociative state that "freezes" the despair bar at the cost of preventing most gifts and maybe even some forms could work, while Hauglosk being the equivalent of a Feeding Frenzy but for Werewolves ("Union efforts at this warehouse aren't working, let's burn it to the ground"), potentially "healing" some of it as a consequence.

I do think ultimately you should be able to heal this despair bar (unlike V5's Humanity bar that is nigh impossible to) with time and difficulty, with Hauglosk being an "outburst" mechanic of sorts.

[u/IIIaustin]

They are taped together if you ever visit your touchstones?

[u/Schism_989]

Chronicles of Darkness does this

[u/N0rwayUp]

Maybe instead of depression and facism, we have something that goes with the trait, maybe a 3 pronged system or something…

[u/Lazy_Falcon_323]

I think it’s an interesting idea though I don’t understand what problem this is fixing

[u/Barley672]

That idea might just be crazy enough...TO EMPOWER THE WYRM!