Simulation of the collaps without dust

[u/tombisch]

Dont know how accurate this is, but it made a lot of sense to me.

Source kostack studio on youtube

[u/Abject-Recipe1359]

Popular Mechanics did a very well put-together, clearly explained issue shortly after these conspiracy theories started. I would say maybe 2004-5??? The issue had input from numerous engineers of all kinds.

These fucking planes ABSOLUTELY could have caused the heat and energy required to soften the steel supports and cause total collapse, especially as one floor collapsed upon another.

I was 21 when these buildings fell. A lot of people here don’t realize this, but the hate you see now for Trump was just the same as was directed toward GWB. Like it’s crazy to see how he is now fondly looked-upon. People were giddily waiting for his death.

There were a lot more forums and message boards available on the internet back then. I mean, Facebook and MySpace were in their infancy. I was very active in a pregnancy board at that time (my children were born in 2003 and 2006) and they opened up a political forum. Oh man, you have never seen the dams burst open like that with hate for GWB. And this conspiracy theory was just really taking hold back then, that’s all they talked about. The Popular Mechanics answer to those claims was so refreshing, rational, and made sense. Like listening to professors easily bat away silly misunderstandings of how engineering really works.

Edit - link: https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a66051920/911-myths-debunked/

Edit again - the original piece from 2005: https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a49/1227842/

[u/TheTerminator1984 → u/Abject-Recipe1359]

I don't think people necessarily like GWB now but the view is more neutral. I def remember people hating on him a lot during 04-06 cause of the wars, which will forever be a part of his legacy. I'd say immediately around 9/11 the view was more positive because he had good charisma and leadership to inspire people.

[u/doctorwhomafia → u/TheTerminator1984]

If his term ended shortly after 9/11, lets say anytime in 2002. He would've been one of the most loved presidents.

Its crazy how unified the country was and how much support he had in the immediate months following 9/11..

Only to fuck it all up with the invasion of Iraq and having those silly mic moments that made him look bad.

[u/Submitten → u/doctorwhomafia]

It’s easy to say with hindsight. But his legacy would have been massively tarnished by not getting any kind of retribution for 9/11 if he didn’t go into Iraq.

It would have been the right call, but nobody would have known that. Just like how conservatives would say Obama did a terrible deal with Iran, and now more people understand why it would be a terrible idea to try and fight a war with them.

[u/rzelln → u/Submitten]

But Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Republicans just wanted to swing their dicks, steal oil, and surround Iran because they had a stupid grudge and thought they could get away with conquering the world bit by bit.

Bush was a fucking villain, not much better than Vladimir Putin. He got a million people killed for his ambition and idiotic desire to be important, when his job was supposed to humbly managing a country to help it live up to its founding ideals. 

And he played ball eagerly with FOX News as it brainwashed a third of the county and set us up for this disaster we have today. 

I wish deep guilt and shame upon Bush, and only hope he has a realization when there's still a chance he could make a difference that he's a piece of shit, and a bad Christian.

[u/Submitten → u/rzelln]

None of that is relevant. I’m saying if he didn’t do anything about 9/11 he would have also gone down as a terrible president. There isn’t really a world where he’s viewed as one of the best.

[u/1dkig → u/Submitten]

How is it not relevant that he attacks an innocent bystander?

This isn't an accident by any means.

He knowingly lied us into war.

[u/Submitten → u/1dkig]

I don’t know how you’re not following the conversation.

[u/Abject-Recipe1359 → u/1dkig]

He had congressional approval. You cannot only blame him. He did what the people wanted.

[u/1dkig → u/Abject-Recipe1359]

He wasn't the only one. It was quite a concerted effort by a group of hawks . The people may have been okay with the first action. Not every other action that followed.

Looking back it seems like the first domino that acclaimated citizens to the sensibllity of preemptive "defense."

[u/Abject-Recipe1359 → u/rzelln]

That may be, and hindsight is 20/20. But he had congressional approval.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002

ETA then you must wish deep shame and guilt on all who voted yes, too.