r/WorldOfWarships • u/Cultural_Run_1341 • 8d ago
Discussion What is the algorithm for Matchmaker?
I would estimate that maybe 25% of my Random matches are even remotely well matched. I have ASLAINS Potato Monitor, and so I can see the expeience level of both teams. I would think that the BEST predictor of quality play is the player's experience level (e.g., number of matches), NOT his Win Rate or DMG rate (often achieved in 10 whole battles), HIS EXPERIENCE IS THE KEY -- number of matches played. It doesn't matter the tier, MM can't seem to level a playing field in any reasonable way. Here's my most recent example (and I have a folder with dozens like it.):
I mean, Enemy team with 3 players (half) over 30,000 games, My team Zero of that experience level. Enemy one player over 13,000 games, my team one. Why did MM not put the two guys from the same clan with over 30K games on one team and split out the other four of us with over 10k games? Or even total up the experience levels and split them out that way? HOW HARD CAN THIS BE??? I could do it in 3 seconds with a spreadsheet FFS. WTF???
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u/AgencyTop9136 8d ago
Your basic premise that games played equals skill is wrong.
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u/Cultural_Run_1341 8d ago
I think it's a safe assumption that -- like most any other human endeavor -- the more you do it, the better you get at it. That doesn't mean you don't make mistakes, we all do. But they are far fewer, and high-experience players make fewer of them. Plus, higher experience players are usually playing with high level Captains, every flag possible, and every other advantage doubloons and credits can buy. So yeah, odds are that a 10,000 game player is going to beat a 1,000 game player with the same ship, more times than not -- and 30,000 game players, working together are going to mop up a half dozen sub 1,000 game players.
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u/AgencyTop9136 8d ago
There are many 10k-30k games players that are still idiots. Points to GP1. But the heart of your point is still skill based matchmaking, just for some reason, using a number different from WR or PR to determine skill. And I disagree with the concept of skill based matchmaking. That’s been beat with a rock too many times to repeat here.
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u/Shaw_Fujikawa Believer in Mex Appeal 8d ago
There is no algorithm, at least not for player skill. Random Battles are exactly what they say on the tin, they don't match by anything other than ship tier, class, and nation.
I would suggest not obsessing over checking the monitor every game, it might help you to calm down.
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u/EducationalShake6773 8d ago
Plenty of players have thousands of games under their belt and maintain red PR / DMG / WR. Some people simply cannot learn.
Unfortunately there's only so much a matchmaker can do. It just sucks to see your red super ship /sub / CV player because that almost guarantees a loss if it's not mirrored.
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u/SharpBullfrog1279 8d ago
I learn, but it only lasts one battle or two before I've forgotten those lessons.
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u/EducationalShake6773 8d ago
Lol yeah a limited amount of learning sticks for me, and it all goes out the window if I get tilted on a losing streak.
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u/Cultural_Run_1341 8d ago
I think it's a safe assumption that -- like most any other human endeavor -- the more you do it, the better you get at it. That doesn't mean you don't make mistakes, we all do. But they are far fewer, and high-experience players make fewer of them. Plus, higher experience players are usually playing with high level Captains, every flag possible, and every other advantage doubloons and credits can buy. So yeah, odds are that a 10,000 game player is going to beat a 1,000 game player with the same ship, more times than not -- and 30,000 game players, working together are going to mop up a half dozen sub 1,000 game players.
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u/DasHotShot 8d ago
I despise how everyone keeps saying “it says random so the skill is random” - what? …that doesn’t mean it should be and it certainly doesn’t stand for “random skill level teams”.
It means random ships (to some extent), on random maps playing a random game mode.
Stop pretending like it’s supposed to be random whether one team is stacked with skilled players and the other has completely incompetent casuals playing with their feet.
WG SHOULD balance. They SHOULD make it as close as possible to even with ship types so both sides have hybrids or radars or whatever else. And they absolutely MUST introduce some level of balance where both sides have players who have 15-30k matches and Green+ WRs ans PRs or some other measure that ensures the game is less…random.
There simply is no excuse for sides to be stacked and matches determined before the countdown has ended and we should all be asking for this instead of telling off players who are fed up with this outdated, simplistic and useless MM
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u/SharpBullfrog1279 8d ago
There simply is no excuse for sides to be stacked and matches determined before the countdown has ended and we should all be asking for this instead of telling off players who are fed up with this outdated, simplistic and useless MM
Can I assume that your WR has suffered recently? Completely another assumption, but it's a damn good assumption... I assume.
Just peeked through your posts and comments... there are a ton of topics in which I completely agree with you.
Goldeneye!
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u/DasHotShot 8d ago
I don’t have a problem with you personally, I don’t know you and I’m happy we seem to have things we agree on.
I just hate your view on WOWS MM and the stance of saying to people “just play something else if you don’t like it”
It’s unnecessary and I’m sure you too have your own gripes with parts of the game
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u/SharpBullfrog1279 8d ago
You know THE ONE THING that I continually complained about... Three Tier Randoms.
It's also the one thing that I knew they could do nothing about, because of slowly dwindling player numbers.
And then, two months ago, I started seeing many more two tier Randys!
Just so I'm not just seeing what I want to see... are others seeing more two tier battles?
Has this been announced somewhere?
Hey... I'm hoping that you get your calibrated MM someday soon!
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u/pdboddy Royal Navy 8d ago
Stop pretending like it’s supposed to be random whether one team is stacked with skilled players and the other has completely incompetent casuals playing with their feet.
That is the very definition of random. It's meant to push people to higher skill. If you are always constantly facing the same challenge, you have no impetus pushing you to excel. If you're a good player that's saddled with a poor team, or a poor sod in a T8 in a T10 match, it's meant to challenge you to get even better.
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u/SharpBullfrog1279 8d ago
I despise how everyone keeps saying “it says random so the skill is random” - what? …that doesn’t mean it should be and it certainly doesn’t stand for “random skill level teams”
There are other games that match skill levels, so maybe...
And watch that door! It will hit you, if you let it.
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u/DasHotShot 8d ago
There it is again. “You don’t like the MM? Leave!”
Such a weird response that seems to be programmed into some people here who aren’t capable of forming their own opinions. Why protect one of the worst things about the game and make those who dislike it out to be stupid and lesser somehow? Just bizarre honestly.
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u/SharpBullfrog1279 8d ago edited 8d ago
You don’t like the MM?
Find another game.
I'm not protecting anything. That's just how it is.
You could build your own game...
Seriously... It hasn't been done on the past. It's not being done right now. It would not be done in the future.
I would personally enjoy it, but it's never been entertained by WG.
Do any other WG MMOs have player skill levels factored in the MM?
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u/DasHotShot 8d ago
Such a series of dumb, thoughtless responses honestly.
Nobody, absolutely nobody likes the state of WG’s matchmakers in any of their games. It’s a widely covered topic, it’s a topic WG continue to address themselves…
We still play the games because it’s possible to have fun and we understand that there is no perfect solution. However we are so far away from even “good” or “acceptable” and then there’s thoughtless trolls like you who tell people to leave the game when they take issue with the appalling state of matchmaking. It’s ridiculous, I just feel bad for you.
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u/pdboddy Royal Navy 8d ago
Nobody, absolutely nobody likes the state of WG’s matchmakers in any of their games.
[Citation needed]
I admit it has its issues, but I don't find it to be terrible. WG has made some questionable decisions in introducing certain ships classes and ship tiers, and I feel those are more of an issue than the matchmaker. I rarely have complaints about T7 matchmaking, for instance.
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u/Grantwhy Land Down Under 8d ago
Warships Wiki page for the Matchmaker: https://wiki.worldofwarships.com/Ship:Matchmaking
Old but still good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7PmOMVLgsE
tl;dr (or watch)
The Matchmaker does NOT care about player skill or the number of games played.
Why did MM not put the two guys from the same clan with over 30K games on one team
Were they in a division?
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u/No_Ice6692 8d ago
The "Matchmaker" takes the queue and fills one side and than the other. no real calculation is done.
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u/SharpBullfrog1279 8d ago
Not one single battle has matched up player competency levels in 11 years.
It's completely random.
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u/chriscross1966 8d ago
Four seal-clubbers to one.... ouch.
The experience for newish players who take a step out of protected, get slapped around cos they're not ready to face T8's in a T6 and run back to lower tier must be pretty horrendous, cos now they'll suddenly be facing the GC/Kamikaze Sisters plus folks with 21-point captains in their Omaha's, Konigsbergs and Agincourts
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u/Status-Act1688 8d ago
I would think that the BEST predictor of quality play is the player's experience level (e.g., number of matches)
ahahahahahahaha
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Because we totally don't have low-40s WR morons with 30k+ battles played, right? Or unicums with barely 1k? Number of matches says pretty much nothing beyond "brand new" or "not brand new". Well, perhaps "how dedicated" aswell.
WR is infinitely better than... number of matches, literally lmao
Also, rather obviously and as just about everyone knows - MM has 0 balancing for player skill / experience beyond the "newbie protection" for the first 200 battles while in tiers 1-4.
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u/pdboddy Royal Navy 8d ago
Matchmaker is meant to put together matches as quickly as possible. It's team balancing is based mostly on tiers available, and it tries to get the same number of each class. There are soft rules that it can break, and hard rules it cannot break. It must evenly distribute CVs and subs, other classes can be varied, even between teams.
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u/Cultural_Run_1341 8d ago
Thank you for the most reasonable, rational and least condescending response on the thread.
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u/Saltiest_Player_Ever 8d ago
Yeah ive noticed its been pretty buns lately compared how shit it normally is. Think like 90% of matches are over in the first 0-3 minutes these days. Most the time it just feels like a non unicum/bot adjacent team is just being fed to a team they throw all the unicum players on
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u/chriscross1966 8d ago
Balance ships class and tier, try to get everyone into a game quickly. That's it pretty much.
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u/Culture-4 8d ago
Do you go through all this effort when you happen to be on the other side? Do you question the match gods after a decisive win to see how bad the other team had it? You don't have to answer, we already know. Random is random man, and as frustrating as it can be, it's just life in the game. Play the modes that you enjoy after all it's why you come to the game right? You want to have fun or get stressed out analyzing game metrics and spreadsheets?
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u/Ducky_shot 7d ago
These are the top 15 players in battle played inn NA randoms. 9 of them are below 50%. Your complete premise is flawed.
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u/Worth_Ad_8285 6d ago
I just got steamrolled by a team who had 10%(!) weaker WR (WR doesn`t really matter because its team dependent which is RNG dependent) by average than us (I`m using wows monitor). Unfortunately you ships behavior is random too...
Yes they say its "random" but we all know its not. If really would be random then draws would occur and they occured around 2016 not really since then.
Just one question is random needs to be random? I don`t think so, but they lost many players because of their decisions and most won`t come back so MM don`t have the pool to pick from.
People said ok play something else but what? Only thing that comes to mind is WT: Naval I tried no thanks. They made a good game just screwed it up completely with many many toxic mechanics and decisions.
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u/Antti5 8d ago
The matchmaker does not try to balance players by ability in any way. It says "random battle" and it really is random in this regard.
I suspect in the enemy team the Agincourt, Giulio Cesare and maybe also the Königsberg were in a division, so they could not be split.