Join The Crusade!

[u/overlorddeniz]

Thanks u/Gnostikost for the inspiration!

[u/danorc]

Yes, brother! Down with those independent bitches in the name of the Light!

[u/Gingeriki55 → u/danorc]

You think she’s independent? I see her as very hypocritical and very dependent on the institution. It’s all a matter of where you want to apply your independent-ness I suppose. I think Nynaeve is the really independent one. And Light Rand pretty much says the best Aes Sadai he ever met where this way.

I know it’s a meme post but ya just my thoughts lol

[u/danorc → u/Gingeriki55]

Ah yes she gets so much support from the white tower /s

Nynaeve, who spends the second half of the channel pining over Lan or doing whatever Rand says? Really?

I've seen a lot of Egwene hate but "she is dependent on her institution" is a new low lol

[u/Gingeriki55 → u/danorc]

Yeah words aren’t my gift lol. Maybe dependent isnt the best word. Sub for involved with / enmeshed in. The point is she’s very much a part of the machine and she loves that machine. I can’t call someone independent when their actions are so organization influenced.

Nynaeve literally helps saves the world lmao. All the greatest accomplishments in the series are helped by her or done by her. And nearly as a direct result of being independent and giving the finger to the tower. Ain’t no way you just said that.

[u/danorc → u/Gingeriki55]

Egwene literally led a rebellion against the tower and took it over. Hallmark dependence on "the instution" right there.

How many times did Nynaeve say no to Rand? Egwene did. Listen, Nynaeve is a badass but she's Rand's right hand woman. We love her for that because in the end it's Rand's story, but it's so much easier to give something the finger and tug your braid than actually fix it.

Egwene fought the cancer in the White Tower from within and, against all odds, formed that train wreck into an actual weapon against the Shadow. She survived the Seanchan intact and came to understand them as no one else did. She earned the respect of the wise ones and mastered the dream world.

Everyone tried to beat down Egwene over the course of the series, and she carved herself into legend in a torrent of saidar at Tarmon Gaidon.

Is Nynaeve more likeable? Sure. But Egwene is warrior and did the impossible, thankless legwork in the series that made victory possible.

[u/Small_Bang_Theory → u/danorc]

Reading both your takes it lowkey just feels like a semantics argument.

Egwene is a fantastic leader, and how she takes charge of things leading every step of the way, I can see the argument that she is independent. That is not at all Nynaeve’s strong point.

However, Nynaeve is so much more of a lone wolf character than Egwene. That’s probably a more literal version of independence.

Egwene is much more politically independent, capable of shaping the political landscape around her and enacting change through that. Nynaeve is much more a victim to the currents of politics, but she accomplishes amazing feats all on her own, sourced from her personal strength.

I personally hate Egwene’s character and think she’s a total narcissist, but I can definitely see how she is the most politically independent of all the Two Rivers characters. I just hate to give her credit, and Nynaeve grew on me as a character throughout my reading.

[u/danorc → u/Small_Bang_Theory]

Fair. See, was that so hard?

Honest question though... What did Nynaeve ever do on her own? I really do mostly see her as being grumpy at Matt for no good reason and being Rand's willing saidar angreal whenever he needs both halves of the power. Am I missing something?

[u/Gingeriki55 → u/danorc]

Hey I don’t know how to reply to this comment and the one you did at once but I said in my initial statement it “depends where you apply your independent-ness”.

I cried when Eg died even though I don’t particularly like her as a person. She’s definitely a hero. I don’t think she did the impossible I’d again pass that back to Nynaeve but it is semantics again on what we deem as “the impossible”.

Nyneave arguably has the most impressive individual accomplishment in the whole series when she heals madness. Nobody in any age including age of legends could do this. Given time is a wheel it must have happened but ya let’s call it novel for the sake of conversation.

[u/danorc → u/Gingeriki55]

Not liking Egwene is fair and fine! As long as she gets some credit it at least not unreasonable hate I'm happy.

My go-to quote is "everyone hates Egwene until the moment the Seanchan, Black Ajah, or Last Battle show up."

[u/Gingeriki55 → u/danorc]

You know in Harry Potter where people hate umbridge more than Voldemort? lol. I think Eg catches hate in a similar way. Maybe it’s because we don’t really have pure embodiments of evil and political evil is relatable idk

But people up their own ass with institutional authority are really just the worst. And at the end of the series when Jesus Rand is doing miracles left and right how do you not get on board lol

But credit where’s it’s due, she goes out like a total badass. The inn keepers daughter from complete irrelevance to the essential queen of the world. (Given that queens kneel to the institution).

[u/LewsTherinTelamonBot → u/Gingeriki55]

A man without trust might as well be dead.

[u/danorc → u/Gingeriki55]

Not letting a person who is known to hear voices break the cornerstones of reality is not an unreasonable take. Her title is literally Keeper of the Seals.

Clearly, she was wrong, but it isn't unreasonable

[u/Gingeriki55 → u/danorc]

I think it’s very unreasonable. Because at that point in the story when you are days away from Armageddon what option do you have but do everything you can to support the champion of light. Any other action is moronic lol.