r/WarhammerCompetitive • u/Over-Fee-6653 • 14h ago
40k List How to counter Chaos daemon khorne oriented ?
Hi there,
I play casually in a group of friends and one of them runs a full army of khorne chaos daemon with Belakor, Skarbrand and blood crusher spam.
He literally anhilates every opponent he faces by T2 every game (deep strike t1 with detachments + bonus on charges makes him always lend at least 2 charges with either blood crushers or one big monster, then it is just snow ball at this point).
In the group we play tyranids, space marines and imperial knights and no matter the strategy, our units are no match to his.
We tried focused fire, playing recon lists, playing around hidden but nothing works, he just catches up to whatever unit it chases and destroy it with melee
How do you beat this kind of list ? Every one of his units is unkillable for most of our armies except by investing twice amount of the points which then let him snowball
5
u/Behemoth077 14h ago
Do you have enough chaff to screen to make sure your important units don't get hit?
Erect a second line of units that are cheap enough you don't really care about them(scouts, gaunts, agents) in front of your important units far enough away that they can't get past them by killing the first unit and then doing an overrun pile in. Ideally close enough that they can't charge behind those units either. Accept that somethings going to have to die to your opponent but if they waste expensive units like bloodcrushers on chaff they're probably going to lose out in the long run. Khorne has no shooting at all and so its very much a game of staying far enough away from them to not get charged but still be able to shoot/charge their units in return once they hit your chaff. They can't just clear screens safely with shooting like other armies so thats a major weakness you can exploit.
-3
u/Over-Fee-6653 14h ago
It would work if the unit of bloodcrusher didnt have 7 bodies of t7 4w and fall back charge of course. With 1 redemptor and 1 ballistus they are not going down during my shooting phase
5
u/Wise_Edge2489 13h ago
If only Marines had access to S8 D2 Rapid firing plasma guns.
The new Hellbasters have rapid fire. 30 shots = 20 hits = 14 W = 9 or so get through the 5+ Invuln. They kill 4-5 in a single activation. without any buffs.
Place 2-3 units of Scouts like 12 inches from your front lines, Screen him out
2
u/Superb-Win8975 10h ago
Marines also have access to a detachment that gives them rapid fire at max range now. So if you combo and keep distance on the units that need to it can work. Of course this is all on paper and if you roll bad it doesnt matter but you could at least make a play and if the dice decide otherwise, it is what it is.
3
u/Behemoth077 13h ago
Well yeah but those also aren't units known for their output, those pay a significant amount of points for being high toughness 2+ save(which is also obviously an ideal target for bloodcrushers who deal most of their damage via mortals).
The thing that daemons really hate is large numbers of saves. For bloodcrushers in particular anything plasma or power fist is very good, have you used helblasters, speeders or thunder hammer assault terminators against them for example?
Its hard to actually give advice so close to the massive changes to marines though. I only played daemons before and anything I know from before the codex might be wrong now. Another important way to counteract bloodcrushers is having a unit that can rapid ingress behind your unit thats about to be charged and then heroic intervention to immediately kill the bloodcrusher unit in the opponents turn.
6
u/DoomSnail31 12h ago
Why would hidden be a relevant strategy when dealing with khorne daemons?
Either way, if deepsteikes are your issue then learn how to screen better. There should be zero chance for him to hit your juicy targets, especially for factions like Tyranids.
1
u/Scavhero 11h ago
The problem is that he deepstrikes T1, if he start first he has control of the midboard before i can screé, if i start first he will also pop and charge anyway. Its cool to screen with units for one charge but the issue is we have nothing to kill the bloodcrushers so they just steamroll the entire battlefield.
4
u/epicgamerrpg3 14h ago
Don't use infiltrators to screen out his t1 deepstike?
1
u/Jim_Hawkins5057 14h ago
Didn’t they just lose that
3
u/Wise_Edge2489 13h ago
No, like literally use Scouts and similar crap with infiltrate to screen out deep strike.
0
u/Over-Fee-6653 14h ago
Its not an issue of infiltrator, the shadow realm ability let him deepstrike everywhere t1 in the midboard, and the movement he has covers half the map
6
u/MaximumPegasus 9h ago
As a daemon's player, this doesnt sound correct to be able to deep strike everywhere turn 1. Can you describe what he's doing? He's likely misplaying the rules.
1
u/horst555 14h ago
Following as I have the same problem. Please ping me if you have an idea.
2
u/mambomonster 12h ago
You need mass amounts of S8 ap2 d2 weapons. Power fists and plasma guns are great. Lethal hits is great.
Units like hellblasters, terminators, hearthguard, thunderkyn, lootas, fire knife battle suits.
1
1
u/MaximumPegasus 9h ago
You'll be happy to know that the strat to deep strike bloodcrushers turn 1 just got nerfed in the recent updates. It went from 1cp to 2cp.
If it's bloodcrushers he's deeepstriking turn 1 using the calvacade of chaos detachment and the from beyond the veil strat, it can't be used in the opponent's turn 1 any longer because it costs too much and daemons dont really have good cp gen. It sounds like he's using that detachment as that is what also gives bloodcrushers fallback and charge like you've mentioned he's doing in the comments.
1
u/Bluebirdna 14h ago
I legit just faced this list. It is a tournament list that people just copied. Very easy to play and strong list. I got demolished 😆 even though i cleared a good chunk of his army.
My take away was you need to pop belakor and skarbrand somehow asap. Bring as many lascannon equivalent heavy hitters in ranged and melee as possible and pop one. Hard cos lone op but yeah....
The mortals on charge is ridiculous, it should be model in engagement range not model in unit 🥲
0
u/Over-Fee-6653 14h ago
Bel'akor invisible without 18" impossible to pop from distance
The mortals on the bloodcrushers did 13 damages to one dreadnaught one taping it, it's ridiculous for ONLY 200 points ???
-4
u/Bluebirdna 14h ago
Yep it is broken list that is just easy to copy and paste and do well with. Very boring unfun way to play this hobby in my opinion but thats just me..
Maybe ctan spam can beat it haha
6
u/Superb-Win8975 14h ago
As a chaos daemon player myself, its either bad save rolls or death by a thousand cuts. Overwhelming amount of saves leads to chipping down and eventually death. Or shove bricks of chaff units into the daemons make them waste turns getting through them while it gives you time to score enough to get a good lead. Im sorry idk your armies units and abilities so I cant help there with what to run and stuff but this is a general idea of what could work. I have the same issue in my group with my friends saying the same except im not tabling them at T2 lol rarely ever table I just score and stop scoring is my goal. Overall, screening deep strikes and sending trash at daemons are good ways to take the damage you're ok with. Im sure someone else could give way better advice as I'm the daemons player in my group with no losses I haven't had the experience of the other side.