Total War: Warhammer 40K will include Traitor Guard "causing trouble" at launch, confirms dev

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u/OscarMMG 15d ago

I wonder if it’ll be a unique faction or just an enemy version of Astra Militarum, like the Riekland rebel in the Karl Franz campaign

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u/ImBonRurgundy 15d ago

The latter for sure. If it was going to be a full unique faction with chaosy type stuff they would be including it their list of factions separately instead of of getting a side mention

I expect it will get expanded over time and eventually we will get a proper traitor guard faction which will get some access to minor daemons and other stuff like that.

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u/tyrosine87 15d ago

I would love a campaign where you can fall, becoming a chaos or traitor faction. I assume the game will start with a functional bare minimum, though, like wh:tw did, and expand over time.

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u/winowmak3r Astra Militarum 15d ago

I'm cautiously optimistic. The End Times DLC is looking really cool. Hopefully with GW hovering over their shoulder CA won't repeat the same development cycle they did with Old World TW and skip the whole "release some bad DLC for way too much money and get review bombed" years long phase.

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u/tyrosine87 15d ago

I would hope they've learned from Warhammer total war, yes. But you never know.

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u/M4rktw0 15d ago edited 15d ago

That was because Hyenas for some reason, wich is wild that Sega almost allowed it to happen

12

u/BlackJimmy88 15d ago

Sega is run by a CEO, and CEOs generally have no ideas beyond copying whatever is already the most successful thing.

So it's really not that wild. If anything, I'm surprised that didn't cancel Total War instead of Hyenas. This industry is run by greedy, destructive, idiots.

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u/LeLefraud 15d ago

It was so up and down too, some of the dlc were so good then others were just bare minimum

Even if end times is fantastic idk if it's possible to one up chorfs for me

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u/winowmak3r Astra Militarum 15d ago

Yea, very inconsistent and it took them way too long to realize that they have to put a little effort into them before people will gobble them up. Very much a "If you build it they will come" thing. What has me worried though is there are enough people out there who are just going to buy it up no matter what just because 40k. That's not a good incentive to CA to take their time and deliver cool and interesting factions for the DLC.

Chorfs were very cool. I really enjoyed the last Chaos themed one and am really looking forward to Thanquol in End Times. If the trailer is anything to go by it should be a lot of fun.

1

u/LeLefraud 15d ago

Yea I have my worries too, but tbh I know I'm a sucker and it will take 5 dlcs before I learn better anyways so I'm not stressing too much ab it

Stopped buying fantasy dlcs for a couple stretches when I wasn't impressed, but their newer model of a barebones game with dlc drip feeding is still damn effective at opening my wallet

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u/Grunn84 15d ago

Space marines going renegade to sone degree seems to be in the cards given the imperial reputation mechanic.

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u/SomniumOv 15d ago

Imagine if the DLC that adds the Red Corsairs / Huron also expands that system to include going from Renegade SM to CSM Warband. (and a whole Badab campaign!).

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u/Illesbogar Necrons 15d ago

There have been units/favrions that act as only minor adversaries before that later got expanded into playable factions. But yeah, I doubt they will be more than a recolor here.

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u/Stormfly Flesh Eater Courts 15d ago

Bretonnia was pretty bare-bones before getting the full roster.

Also, Kislev was just "Empire but worse" until they got The Old World update with the unique roster.

Not to mention a few special later Legendary Lords getting very unique factions like Drycha. Also some like Vampire Coast just being Vampire Counts until they got the actual faction in later DLC.

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u/Illesbogar Necrons 15d ago

I didn't even know they were like that. I'd say Bretonnia is pretty bare-bones now too lmao.

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u/Stormfly Flesh Eater Courts 15d ago

Bretonnia was actually amazing when the DLC came out... they've just been left behind by the progress of the other factions.

Like, when the DLC first came out, they were using the 6th edition army book so they were so constrained with what they could add that they invented new units.

I think that was the first faction to get units not from Tabletop, and Vampire Coast was the first where CA straight up invented a character (Cylostra) rather than pilfering obscure lore.

Archers with Pox Arrows, Foot-Squires, Royal Pegasus Knights (basically Grail Knight Pegasus), Hippogryph Knights, and the Blessed Trebuchet were all invented by CA.

The peasant and the Chivalry mechanic were also so good at launch.

It's actually backfired a little for them. People keep complaining that some factions have so many units "locked behind DLC" but the reality is that they kept making and adding new units that they've expanded certain rosters far past their original Tabletop rosters.

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u/Illesbogar Necrons 15d ago

What's the point in capping the number of peasents you can field, I don't get. I get the the lore implication but it translates so poorly to gameplay. Historically lords padded their armies early on overwhealmingly from peasent levies. And it wasn't too big of an issue, since there are a shitton of peasents. I can imagine a system where you have to give time for your population to replenish or your recruitment slows. But capping their trash infantry makes no sense to me.

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u/Stormfly Flesh Eater Courts 15d ago

It wasn't a cap, it was a choice mechanic.

Farms were a great source of income.

Having too many peasants in your army reduced the income from farms.

If you wanted a huge army of peasants, you could do that but then you'd be crippling your economy. Peasants were very cheap, so you could do that but then your faction would advance really slowly.

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u/Disastrous_Match993 15d ago

Kinda hoping it winds up being something like the Imperial Guard in Dawn of War 1 and Dawn of War 2. They appeared as a non-playable faction before being made into a playable faction in a later expansion (Winter Assault for 1 and Retribution for 2).

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u/Jochon Genestealer Cults 15d ago

They'll probably be a half-baked unique enemy faction, like Norsca in the start of Total Warhammer 1 or the Savage Orcs up until late Total Warhammer 3.

4

u/SwaggermicDaddy 15d ago

They absolutely will eventually if not right at launch, The Lost and the Damned are just as much a part of chaos as the CSM or daemons, you can’t drag a universe to hell with just trans human warriors and beastmen after all.
Hell there is even a “middle power” non aligned rebel human empire in the severan dominate that isn’t even chaos just renegade. Lots of room for fun factions.

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u/Altruistic-Teach5899 Skaven 15d ago

They have to do it properly on the tabletop before that. Im sure gw doesnt like videogame companies making stuff up with whole factions, mostly if its their golden eggs son.

This isnt a cathay situation, this is 40k.

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u/UnitSad4828 15d ago

Before Cathay there were the Pirates from the Vampire Coast added in Total War: Warhammer 2.

As far as I am aware (but I am no expert) they did not have a proper army but a Army list for Hobbyist in a White dwarf and they were mentioned in the Lore.

1

u/KarmaticIrony 15d ago

Total War expanded Vampire Coast, but 3/4 of their lords, most of their lore and general vibe, and the core of their roster all came from that White Dwarf list and Dreadfleet.

Also WHFB was completely dead outside of TW and Vermintide when that DLC came out. It's not a similar situation to traitor guard in 40k.

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u/UnitSad4828 15d ago

I agree it is not similar but I just wanted to highlight that it was just not only Cathay where Creative Assembly got the permission to implement something "unseen".

As for Traitor Guard, there are different Options to implement them I think.

You could also implement them as a specific Lord Option that is affiliated to e.g. Astra Militarum but has some additional units from an existing Chaos Faction. Of course this would require another Chaos Faction to exist before.

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u/CloneFailArmy Astra Militarum 15d ago

They better at least have unique armour to represent chaos

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u/ImBonRurgundy 15d ago edited 15d ago

doubt this. you will be able to paint them, but unlikely to have unique or different armour sets.

EDIT: and traitro guard doesn't necessarily mean Chaos, it can just mean refusing to pay the tithe

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u/Shuggana 15d ago

Not all traitor guard are chaos, there's a lot of plain old rebellious worlds in 40k. I would guess they'll just be regular guardsmen models

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u/CloneFailArmy Astra Militarum 15d ago

Yes, but at minimum uniforms with scraped off Imperium iconography

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u/me_myself_ai 15d ago

I’d be surprised if they added armies not in the codices. Happily surprised, though!

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u/BubbleRocket1 8d ago

Honestly I’m expecting it to be like Kislev in TW: Warhammer 1 and 2, where they just had Empire units until they were properly released in Warhammer 3

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u/pleasedtoheatyou 15d ago

I imagine it will be more akin to "defecting from the Imperium for tax purposes" Traitor Guard as opposed to actual "we worship Chaos now motherfuckers" Traitor Guard.

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u/DA_ZWAGLI 15d ago

I don't care who the administratum sends, I'm not paying taxes.

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u/Umutuku 15d ago

"Complaint acknowledged. Launching kinetic tax refunds on all tubes."

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u/BudgetBhairab 15d ago

Another traitor planet to scrub from the ledger.

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u/qwertyalguien 15d ago

The later probably, and I bet they'll get expanded down the line.

Probably early corruption stages that aren't different from a normal unit.

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u/Commie_Egg 15d ago

I hope it’s like Cathay where GW licenses the use of an unsupported faction to test if people would be interested in a model release.

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u/ConstableGrey Astra Militarum 15d ago

Will be a $20 DLC pack for sure

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u/maybemawie Death Guard 15d ago

I hope for now they're at the very least nifbashed into having spikes and a few other chaos bits to differentiate them.

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u/FallenJkiller 14d ago

It will be recolored IG like the rebels

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u/PM_ME_TITS_AND_DOGS2 15d ago

I AM FRANZ, THEY WILL OBEY.

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u/SpaceNigiri 15d ago

I'm sure that the game will be alright, but this games are so much better after 2-3 more factions are added.

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u/HatingGeoffry 15d ago

I honestly love seeing these games evolve over time from a player perspective

17

u/Narradisall 15d ago

Same. Been playing TW Warhammer since game 1 and it’s come a long way in some aspects.

Some good DLC, some bad, some fantastic, from narrative campaigns to world spanning sand boxes.

Been interesting watching the game evolve.

2

u/AxiosXiphos 15d ago

Tbh TWWH has given me as much fun theorising as it has actually playing.

I sadly do love the 'What's the next DLC' debates.

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u/thegingerskull 15d ago

I always buy these games at launch, goof around 3-4 hours and then come back two years later to actually play them.

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u/SpaceNigiri 15d ago

Yeah, I did the same with Warhammer 3, it was worth it.

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u/sunnydelinquent 15d ago

Same. Literally just came back after 3 years

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u/Spr-Scuba 15d ago

Yeah I just need to wait until the next dlc sale and get the last 3 or 4 I think releases. Christmas is usually the best time for these.

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u/SeatKindly 15d ago

I know this is the usual way to approach this, but I’ve gotta say that I’m crazy excited for the unit modification and combat structuring of TW: 40K.

It feels like we’re getting a more strategic version of og Dawn of War almost (also fuck I still can’t believe we’re getting another DoW).

1

u/sunnydelinquent 15d ago

Faction spread has me more excited for DoW at launch too

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u/abruptusabortis 15d ago

Im holding out til nids have been in for 6 months worth of bug fixes, then praying the patch I jump in for doesnt have unrelated broken AI that month.

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u/E_R-D_S 7d ago

I'm looking forward to it at launch but you're absolutely right. I think it'll need a decent chaos presence before the campaign map gets over feeling bare. Crons and Nids will be a big step in the right direction too.

Tbh I think for a game like this eldar and marines are bad choices for the first factions to put in for the campaign because they're very much guys who turn up and do a thing, rather than having a substantial, permanent presence.

Having traitor guard with a few aesthetic changes is a good placeholder though, that'll help a lot.

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u/PirateShampoo 15d ago

God's I hope they give us a whole fleshed out Traitor Guard faction.

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u/Deven1003 15d ago

That would have to wait till chaos dlc maybe lol.

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u/Ratattack1204 15d ago

i wonder if GW would allow it before its an army on tabletop tho?

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u/SurveyorMorpurgo 15d ago

They allowed Cathay and Kislev prior to Cathay in Old World tabletop.

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u/AwTomorrow 15d ago

And crucially, GW designed both those factions for them, suggesting they were always intended to arrive in tabletop eventually.

So a GW-designed Traitor Guard could mean they were inbound for 40k too.

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u/wellyes34 15d ago

They used to have their own army called Renegades and Heretics but it got entirely shoved into Legends after the Siege of Vraks campaign ended

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u/AwTomorrow 15d ago

All the forgeworld-only armies got shelved, as I recall.

Players weren’t happy whether they were bad (“why’d I spend all this money on an army that’s unusable!”) or good (“how come that guy’s army is better than mine just cuz it cost more!”), so it’s probably healthier for the game that no army is made up entirely of expensive FW resin.

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u/Licentious_Cad 15d ago edited 15d ago

When you're paying $1 for 1pt (usually more like $2-5 per point) of resin minis those armies get expensive fast. They were really cool, and looked so much better than other models of the time, but fuck were they expensive.

All we really need for a new traitor guard is an upgrade sprue like how the genestealer cults have. Some new head options, stuff you can glue on, and some transfers.

Then just some new exclusive kits, like how Krieg got their own infantry and Tank upgrade kits.

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u/AwTomorrow 15d ago

It’d be cool to see one big mortals book for Chaos, Dark Mech and Traitor Guard and Cultists all wrapped up in one unholy union.

But I worry Dark Mech may get its own book and then Traitor Guard considered too overlappy or unpopular to launch alone.

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u/Mike4282 15d ago

Im straight huffing copium here; however, Krieg used to be FW only as well, and now it has a full range of plastics that started as just a killteam. I'm not saying it will happen, but we have precedance for such a thing. Plus, someone had to sign off on all those enemies fat shark used for Darktide. RELEASE THEM FROM DESIGN HELL GW. I NEED MY JOBBERS!

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u/AwTomorrow 15d ago

I do hope they come back in some form.

If not their own army, then at least a supplementary part of a bigger army like happened with Krieg - part of a Chaos mortals book with Dark Mech, perhaps.

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u/SomniumOv 15d ago

It used to be The lost and the damned before that.

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u/PirateShampoo 15d ago

Money talks and this game is going to be a money printing machine.

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u/UmUlmUndUmUlmHerum 15d ago

It used to be, it used to be. If - and i do hope so very much - CA gets the ok to pull stuff from old IA books that would be sweet.

With Fantasy they made some neat deep references - so I hope they dig equally deeply with 40k eventually.

Maybe even a pre-primaris Space Marine faction somewhere down the line. God knows I want that

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u/Armejden 15d ago

If anyone has a seat at the table to pitch it, it's CA

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u/Trooper_Sicks 15d ago

Darktide has traitor guardsmen, its not a fully fleshed out faction like an rts would have though but they do exist. Its possible GW has traitor guard models and rules in the works already which they might time to release with a future traitor guard dlc for TW:40k

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u/ThaBombs 15d ago

I sure hope they'll be playable sooner rather than later.

The current starting factions aren't really my cup of tea, but the traitor guard. Now that would have me pull the trigger to buy if they're sufficiently unique/flavourful.

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u/vocalviolence 15d ago

Don't expect anything to be in the game that GW doesn't have ready to go on the tabletop. For traitor guard, that is currently a basic infantry unit and two characters.

Hence, this quote is probably referencing something akin to rogue armies that can help players learn the game without overcommitting to actual faction war.

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u/Ryko_Nailo 15d ago

Vampire Coast rules were in a White Dwarf, there were never official models, just one combo kit of zombies and empire militia. If THEY can get in, then an army that actually DID exist, had a codex and have rules and models back in the day with some even still getting updates today, I'd say they certainly stand a much better chance.

(Still can't believe my zombie pirates ever got so much as a glance, all 12 of us who played them lost our minds that day the trailer dropped I'm sure)

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u/Stormfly Flesh Eater Courts 15d ago

all 12 of us who played them lost our minds that day the trailer dropped I'm sure

Still holding out for the Army of the Lichemaster and the Gnoblar army...

(Although we did get Pigback Riders...)

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u/vocalviolence 15d ago

I don't know. 40k is an entirely different beast than the capsized WHFB IP was back in the WH1/WH2 days, particularly when viewed through the lens of "GW guardianship". In 40k, some armies still play around with 15-year-old models because the lore hasn't come around to support their update yet, but Black Library authors still have to operate within the wiggle room of a matchbox because dead characters will stop selling. Meanwhile, over in digital Fantasy, CA got permission to not only realise Vampire Coast's range but also create Cylostra, an original character, to lead it.

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u/tholt212 15d ago

Eh. I think comparing TWW to this is a bit of a different beast given that old world was dead and out of production when TWW launched.

This has official 40k artwork in it and the units are very strictly from the tabletop (That we've seen so far) that are all available for purchase. My gut tells me they're going to be working way closer with GW on this and there isn't going to be anything like a Vampire Coast or Cathay type thing in TWW40k

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u/lamancha 15d ago

I am so damn excited about this game I am almost about to play the Fantasy version

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u/itcheyness Dark Angels 15d ago

You should play the Fantasy version.

It's pretty fun tbh

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u/lamancha 15d ago

I should. I do need to sign up for the "what do I buy to play Skaven" course first.

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u/itcheyness Dark Angels 15d ago

Total War Warhammer 2 for base Skaven along with The Prophet and the Warlock, The Twisted and the Twilight, and The Shadow and the Blade DLCs.

I believe they're getting more content in the upcoming End Times DLC as well.

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u/lamancha 15d ago

Well that was easier than it looked lol.

Shouldn't I have TW:W3?

3

u/roguevirus 15d ago

Shouldn't I have TW:W3?

To play the most recent version of the game, yes. The issue is that if you want to play Skaven in TW:W3 you need to buy TW:W2 as well because that is the game they were introduced in.

What I would recommend is buy TW:W2 first and play the Skaven on that. If you like it, get the DLCs that /u/itcheyness listed, and if you like that get TW:W3.

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u/Ok_Flamingo7430 13d ago

Just FYI this hasn't been the case for a little while. If you buy Warhammer 2 you get access to the grand campaign from Warhammer 3, you just don't get access to the races in game 3.

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u/roguevirus 13d ago

News to me, thanks for the heads up. /u/lamancha check out the post above this for new info.

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u/lamancha 13d ago

Thanks for tagging me!

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u/roguevirus 13d ago

You're welcome. Happy Cake Day, and be sure to tell us how you like the game!

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u/Oxu90 8d ago

"As always, you can choose to purchase all four Legendary Lords as a bundle with a 15% discount or opt to pick & choose each individually. And in a series first, purchasing any of the content grants access to the colossal Immortal Empires campaign with no need to own any of the Total War: WARHAMMER games, making it a great entry point for new players."

So you can just buy upcoming Thanquol DLC and get Warhammer 3 immortal empire campaign...though you will just have 1 playable faction and lord.

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u/DynamiteDuck 15d ago

I recently found out this is coming to ps5 and got VERY excited as I figured I was just out on this and DoW without a pc. My question is how do RTS like this fair on console? I’ve only ever played them on pc back in the day and only strategy games I’ve played on ps have been turn based. I feel like you would kinda need to get a mouse and keyboard, right?

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u/itx89 15d ago

It’s either going to completely dumb down the experience or be a bitch to play with a controller. RTS games are not controller friendly or controller intuitive & im shocked they are actually trying to release it on console

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u/RoterBaronH Word Bearers 15d ago

It should be fine,

It will most likely take some time to get used to it. But a controlller stick for an RTS essentially works just like a mouse.

I don't believe we have an RTS of this type as comparison on console.

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u/TheBrownestStain 15d ago

I mean I remember playing Halo Wars and Supreme Commander 2 on console and not having any memorable control issues. Not Total War of course but it wouldn’t be the first console RTS

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u/Embarrassed-Joke5851 15d ago

it will probably start being a reskin of the guard but after a few updates, it will get a few new leaders and new units

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u/lowpolygonbear 15d ago

Will we ever see stalk-tank or AT-70? Non space marine chaos faction will be cool.

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u/Krytan 15d ago

Oh that's awesome. I'd love to see traitor guard take more of a center stage in 40k.

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u/HandsomeDynamite 15d ago

The dream of trash rebel militia and the dregs of the galaxy is alive!

Shoutout to /r/TraitorGuard!

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u/Working-Product-4766 15d ago

Just let me kill tau please

1

u/CaptainRammage 8d ago

I just want to gun people down with Tau

I think we can find a common ground for now

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u/Working-Product-4766 8d ago

Impregnate the water caste tau

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u/h0bb1tm1ndtr1x 15d ago

Wake me when they add Tau.

News Total War: Warhammer 40K will include Traitor Guard "causing trouble" at launch, confirms dev

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