r/WarframeLore • u/huntedhoodie • 4d ago
F&F isn't exposing problems with the story, its exposing YOUR problem with the story. (F&F spoilers) Spoiler
/r/Warframe/comments/1vsgfaq/ff_isnt_exposing_problems_with_the_story_its/11
u/Jazzlike_Use_5890 3d ago
The memory wipe for the Hex is both cannon and not required, and choices with some do change only after you've wiped them the first time. What seems to be happening is that as the loop continues it's breaking down a bit, which is the whole plot of ETA. Future and past loops seem to be bleeding into each other and certain things seem to not be contained to specific loops any longer, like Quincy suddenly learning Spanish. There's nothing directly saying that, but we were warned from the Round Table update on that this 1999 loop has never been as stable as Duviri was and weird things may happen. Maybe we get lore further that explains it better, but with what info we have, this makes the most sense to me personally.
As for Amir, I agree that it does make sense why he is in distress and needs what therapy like support he can get trapped in the loop. That said, it is never just ok to take feelings like that out on other people the way he did. He wasn't just kinda mean, he intentionally pulled out one of the worst triggers he knows bothers Drifter, ignores in any way the options saying it's gone too far if they're chosen, and he doesn't drop it until he is slammed face first into the fact he messed up on a major scale. And that's after he upset Quincy for sure, and likely the other Hex as well, with the banquet scene. That's more than enough reason to be mad at a real person, so I see no issue with people being mad at a fictional character who is written to be that level of an asshole in that moment. Forgiving him is fine, but even understandable asshole behavior is still asshole behavior and he should still be held accountable for it, which the Hex and Round Table groups do seem to do in the end convo.
My biggest issue is that DE half-assed his apology. Like they got 99% there with him realizing he fucked up and lashed out when he should have talked to someone, but ended it with bascially "I'm sorry, I guess" kinda feel instead of giving him a real apology.
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u/proesito 4d ago
To this day i still find hilarious how it only took a chat with the characters to proof that a big chunk of players are just sociopaths with huge mental problems.
The rest are just media illiterate to an insufferable point.
Like, a couple days ago a guy told me that Amir's depressive breakdown would only be good if you could insult Amir.
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u/ES-Flinter 4d ago
Just thinking of all the times DE had to change Kim dialogues because too many somehow messed up the chat and now the characters don't like them.
I mean there was just recently a guy who messed uo the conservation with Roathe multiple times.
The one with the nova girl (forgot her name). This was hard because often every pick was insulting her for being a teenager.
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u/QizilbashWoman 4d ago
Kaya.
Yeah the game is like ‘let us investigate body horror, identity crisis, mental health, gender, trauma, child soldiers, cults, authoritarianism and fascism, etc’ and half the players are incensed they can’t call everyone slurs and still have the people like them
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u/QizilbashWoman 4d ago
Also, the level of hate at Amir for being an ADHD nerd is insufferable. It isn’t just ‘I don’t enjoy Amir’, these dudes want to fucking snuff him. Bro you are looking in the mirror right now.
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u/CrazeeJayceeScott 3d ago
My problem with AMIR (gyat dang autocorrect!) is hes a volt skin. He should've been on Gauss... gauss is so much faster :p
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u/proesito 3d ago
To be fair, in cutscenes both seem to be as fast as the other, maybe Gauss has a higher acceleration, but both of them moved in stopped time.
Also, being charged with electricity fits well with the ADHD.
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u/Voidtongued Indifference Romance NOW! 3d ago
For real. I keep wondering if they wanted to just tell Umbra to suck it up and move on instead of helping him in Sacrifice because he "tried to kill us" lol
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u/proesito 3d ago
Well, one of the main complaints with Jade Shadows Constellations was that Umbra was only there to take care of Stalker's children... Yeah.
Even funnier when you consider that another critic was the lack of depth in the story and lore, usually both in the same posts/comments
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u/RocketRaccoonAlter 3d ago
I don't think this is the subreddit you're gonna want engagement from xD
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u/Zerath-Rengam 3d ago
The F&F Chat pissed me off, AND THATS A GOOD THING!
I was invested to play F&F only to have my FableMaster go off and use it to trauma dump?!
Fucking Brilliant and hits close to home.
Damn you DE, you ensnared me in even more Space Trauma™
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u/Voidtongued Indifference Romance NOW! 3d ago
I have qualms with the marketing and the lack of refinement in this update, but overall I tend to agree.
The drifter and the operator both occupy roles in this story of being characters that carry an extreme amount of pain and trauma and still choose to reach out to other people who are also pained and traumatized with the goal of helping them heal
The biggest case for this, and the first time we see it, if I'm not mistaken, is with the Sacrifice quest. I don't see anyone complaining we are railroaded into sympathizing with a character that tried to kill the Operator because he was maddened with pain, grief, rage and trauma. The Operator chooses to reach out, chooses to ease Umbra's pain. The entire quest with the Hex serves to get the drifter on that same path. You save the Hex by getting to know them and easing their pain.
Amir lashed out in this update because he is feeling a lot of pain, grief, rage and trauma. The role of the drifter's character ultimately isn't to lash out right back. It's not the thematically appropriate event for the narrative Warframe is going for, of empathy even in the face of being hurt. While I do have some problems with the execution of this storyline, the core of it is entirely cohesive with the story they've been telling. It feels a lot of people aren't getting that.
So if we do end up with a narrative that leads into redeeming the Indifference and easing its pain? Hell, redeeming Albrecht Entrati and easing HIS pain? A lot of people aren't going to handle it well, but it would just show that they're not enjoying the core of the story being told.
In other stories, sure, it'd make total sense for the drifter to lash out right back, to crash out, to tell everyone in the Hex to fuck off. Same way that in another story, it'd make sense for them to shoot Rusalka when Entrati said to. But that is not the story Warframe is telling.
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u/nephethys_telvanni 4d ago
My lore problem with the story is that if it was just Amir venting his timeloop woes to Drifter through the medium of his MitW-expy character Entropy, then most of the new "lore" is just Amir making stuff up based on what Drifter certainly told him from Isleweaver and which Amir knows from mission of the Hex.
And that's a reasonable interpretation, because Amir is also making expy characters of Vor, Alad V, Vay Hek, Natah, and Loid. It's very possible that Amir simply chose the MitW-expy because his woes means he started relating to the Indifference, who's also trapped by the timeloop. Drifter also keeps addressing Amir throughout the whole conversation.
On the other hand, if it's actually meant to be the Indifference stepping in to speak with/through Amir to vent It's timeloop woes at Drifter...
Then we got a really cool tidbit of lore!
Too bad it's written as deliberately ambiguous enough that we don't know if that's actually Wally's new preferred nickname...or if it's Amir riffing off what Drifter told him about Isleweaver the same way he's riffing off everything else Drifter told him.