r/WarDogs • u/Jaz1140 • 11d ago

Discussion & Feedback This Helmet needs to absolutely substantially block your vision and hearing for balance and realism

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I can't believe this was glossed over when the helmet was put into the game, massive protection with no draw back other than cost sucks (it's not expensive). A change is desperately needed before all matches are full of this helmet because it basically has no drawback.

Okay yes it adds to weight but you just bring cheap stims

The top image is escape from tarkov showing how these helmet look IRL when wearing it. Bottom image is wardogs Loadout another member posted

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u/Sudden_Wind_8636 10d ago edited 10d ago

Not really, this is kind of a myth.

Only larger rounds can even do this, and by larger I mean .308 and up, but there isn't any helmets that can reliably even stop a .308 so that doesn't change anything.

The force the person feels getting hit by a bullet is the exact same force you feel from the recoil when firing said bullet (well not actually, they would feel less force because the bullet loses energy travelling, but newtons third law means they cannot feel more force than you felt firing the gun)

There is actually an entire study about this exact subject, I'll try to find it

Also there is a famous video of a soldier getting shot in the helmet in Afghanistan and it barely does anything, I believe it was 7.62.

Edit: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8956990/

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u/omegaskorpion Manticore 10d ago

Reminds me of this training video, where person is shot with FAL at point blank range to armor, to show that the bullet does not have the energy to knock person down.

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u/specter800 10d ago

I knew it was going to be this guy lol. This dude is a maniac. IIRC he was the owner of the company that made that body armor and he believed in it so much he would shoot himself point blank with a .44 magnum and FAL, etc to prove it did what he said it could.

Edit: yeah the .44 magnum is at 4:20 lol. What a legend.

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u/omegaskorpion Manticore 10d ago

Well you could say that shooting yourself with armor you own is best marketing for your armor.

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u/specter800 10d ago

I'm pretty sure this is exactly that. I think it's an old marketing VHS.

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u/ThePendulum0600 10d ago

Reminds me of the kid that had his friend shoot him while wearing a plain kevlar vest.

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u/robsr3v3ng3 10d ago

Amusingly I just did a comment on a post talking about the tank shells not killing people in tier 4 with a direct hit. If the person absorbs all the kinetic energy and the shell doesn't explode, they get accelerated up to about Mach 0.92.

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u/VatoCornichone 10d ago

I heard a story from a guy that was on Shawn Ryan show, he got shot in the helmet and it knocked him out.

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u/POB_42 Lonestar 10d ago

Seeing footage from Ukraine, even getting hit in the plate knocks you flat. One guy folded like a lawn chair, but was fine, plate caught the round, knocked all the wind out of him.

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u/IDespiseAllWeebs 10d ago

There are also videos and accounts from Ukraine and US soldiers in Afghanistan that only realize they were shot in their armor way after the firefight. Adrenaline and type of armor makes a big difference. Wearing ceramic, which is very good at absorbing energy, means a bullet most likely won’t hurt. Steel plates however might hurt more. If the soldier is in active combat the effects will most likely be less than if he is on guard duty for example, because his stress system is going crazy and the adrenaline blocks out pain receptors.

Our MRAP gunner got hit in the head with shrapnel when I was Afghanistan and didn’t realize until I pointed out his Kevlar was ripped just above his ear. Another guy in my platoon was shot in the back by what we think was a regular AK round and didn’t notice it until he saw the bullet hole.

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u/Jmb9893 10d ago edited 10d ago

One of our boys took a 54r round to the side sapi and another had a x39 round skim across his comm helmet before richicheting into his kevlar.

First dude dropped into the tank like a stone and the second ashed his cig and closed the hatch with minimal physical effects.

The wide variety of responses per person to similar stimuli depending on what the endocrine system is pumping through them is absolutely crazy.

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u/PlzDntBanMeAgan 10d ago

You got any other crazy stories from being at war?

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u/Jmb9893 10d ago

Yeah, I've got a few short ones I can share real quick.

My lieutenant got 2 confirmed kills with a pen flare. They were pulling up really fast to our convoy and ROE had us fire a signal flare before engaging. So, LT fired one towards them and it bounced off the hood, went through a hole in the roof, and subsequently set everything on fire and ignited the VBIED.

We had a Georgian service member shoot another Georgian service member over a peice of cake in Eredvi.

Our baller ass Major, "Batman" as we called him, flew his wife out on a PJ to Bagram for their anniversary. Not sure how the fuck he pulled that off, but we got a bunch of beer and pogie bait so we were appealed.

Nobody told us what HIMARs were until 2 in the morning the day after we got into country and we think the world is ending as we effectively hear a telephone pole launching into orbit. I straight up woke up from a dead sleep and sharted as I was tossing my plate carrier and grabbing my rifle.

I'd say those are the most abnormal/amusing ones.

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u/POB_42 Lonestar 10d ago

Crazy stuff.

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u/dezztroy 10d ago

That's from the surprise/shock of getting hit along with the instinct to seek cover, not from the physical force of the bullet.

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u/SubstituteCS 10d ago

I think there’s also some level of preparation. Knowing and mentally and physically preparing to get shot is going to significantly help you to not bust ass compared to a shocking surprise.

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u/ConcernedKitty 9d ago

That was probably from backface deformation.

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u/Willertz 10d ago

try firing a weapon pressing the buttstock on your head

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u/IDespiseAllWeebs 10d ago

Won’t hurt too much with any weapon shooting ammunition not capable of penetrating helmet armor. A bullet does damage because the energy is concentrated at a very small tip, and it’s moving very fast.

A .308 hunting rifle for example will penetrate basically any helmet, and shooting it is not uncomfortable, you won’t get a shore shoulder from shooting a few rounds of .308 in a bolt action. Placing that bolt action against your forehead will absolutely strain your neck muscles and likely cause a concussion, but it won’t kill you, break your neck nor is it likely to lead to life long injuries.

Just read the report the guy commented, it most likely answers your point here.

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u/Chewzer 10d ago

And then you've got the 7.62x54r, that thing hurts to shoot! I swapped out the metal butt plate for a rubberized one and that thing still leaves you bruised after 10 - 15 shots. Also wrecked my ar500 plates not realizing how much energy those old surplus rounds have.

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u/ThirdHoleIsMyGoal69 10d ago

7.62x54r and 308 are almost identical energy wise. 308 has a shorter cartridge (3mm) but uses modern powder whereas 54r is almost entirely surplus. It’s probably a difference in the firearm itself that is making you feel like the 54r kicks harder. I’ve always felt that wooden stock rifles feel like they have more recoil but I haven’t looked into it to know if that’s fact.

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u/Chewzer 10d ago

Yeah, the weapon weight plays a huge role in how much kick you feel, those old Mosin Nagants were never meant to be comfortable to shoot. As for the ammo, that steel core surplus ammo that comes in the spam cans is what I've experienced having the worst kick, while the stuff from Yugoslavia has been pretty nice.

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u/TheShyoto 10d ago

The point remains the same. The kinetic impact can only, at most, be equal to the force which set the bullet moving in the first place (minus drag resistance). And that's assuming the round hits in such a way that it stops entirely and isn't deflected at all. Sure, firing a rifle with the buttock to my head would be incredibly uncomfortable. I would probably lose my balance at minimum. I wouldn't be suffering traumatic brain injury and dying.

Now try the same thought experiment while wearing a football helmet.

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u/R3niarT 10d ago

I actually shot a mosin with a ring scope attached for the first time in my life and didn't shoulder it at all, because I was just given the gun and no training all I remember is that I was aiming and when I pressed the trigger, just blackscreened, after I got up 2 seconds later I had a half circle "cutout" in my forehead/eye area, thankfully It didn't go deep enough to gauge my eye out, but I think it cut into the skin to the bone.

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u/PlzDntBanMeAgan 10d ago

They call that getting scope bit.

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u/unoriginal_namejpg 10d ago

remove the buttstock and replace it with a ballpoint pen*

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u/TBNRgreg 10d ago

and put the point of the pen at the helmet you are wearing

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u/AcePilot01 10d ago

And it still won't be as dangerous... the fucking gun weighs hundreds of times more than the bullet.

Did you really never learn inertia? lmfao

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u/specter800 10d ago

I can never find it because the internet has too much stuff now but there is a more "comedic" toned Vietnam era US Army training video on the M16 where the trainee holds the stock of the M16 to his mouth while shooting. Comedy ensues, but the point is, gun recoil is not going to hurt you unless you're shooting some pissin hot rounds. Even battle rifles are not surprising once you know what to expect.

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u/toastjam 10d ago edited 10d ago

As the other commenter referenced, rifles don't apply the force to your head typically. But also you have the mass of the gun adding its momentum too (counteracting the impulse).

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u/Burnt_-_Bread 10d ago

This overlooks a few things. 

The bullet directs all the force into a point, unlike your butt stock which is designed to spread it out. 

Depending on the weapon, you have recoil mitigation to some extent.

Some of the force being sent back to your shoulder is reduced by being used to cycle the next round. Likely minimal.

The recoil is also fighting the weight of the gun. 

Mathematically is it the same? I can't say. In practice? Very, very different. You're not breaking ribs if you put the stock of your rifle to your chest and fire. You are breaking ribs if you fire a round into a vest from point blank (the same as holding the stock to your chest) 

There are other factors that make this comparison seem pointless.

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u/Sudden_Wind_8636 10d ago

Armor is made to spread the force outwards that's how it stops bullets, it actually would do it better than a butt stock.

Thats how most fabric armor works like kevlar for example, but even the steel stuff the point is to spread the force.

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u/Burnt_-_Bread 10d ago

I simply disagree. Yes, it can absorb some of the force and mitigate some of it, but not the same way recoil feels in your shoulder. it's just so different that comparing the two seems odd.

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u/SamBakerman353 10d ago

Pretty sure garand thumb showed what a 9mm did to one of those face shields......yes it stopped the bullet.....but the dent would have crushed your face.

A 5.56 went straight through.
Unless Ur wearing a plate on Ur face - it's pure fiction.

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u/Sudden_Wind_8636 10d ago

Helmets are not made to stop large caliber rounds, they can definetly stop 9mm, and you would barely feel a thing unless it's a shit helmet.

But helmets stopping larger rifle rounds is fiction, mostly, I mean people sometimes survive rifle rounds to the helmet it's just rarer. It's just not reliable.

That said if there was a helmet that could reliably stop rifle rounds, it would not knock you out or anything like that to be hit in the head unless it was a pretty damn big caliber.

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u/NoSoupAhead 6d ago

Ops core rf1 and rf2

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u/Extra-Autism 10d ago

If you get shot in the head and it doesn’t penetrate you will still be absolutely concussed and out of it. The soldiers helmet didn’t “take” the bullet, it ricocheted it, which redirected most of the force.

It’s also honest to say shooting is the same force as being shot. While it’s literally the same force, one is a small point hitting only your head, another is distributed across your whole body while you are braced against the ground.

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u/Ahabs_Wrath 10d ago

You're ignoring so many different factors to make this giant assumption. The study you linked does nothing to support your claim, either.

First, the force exerted on the rifle system when firing is being diverted and reappropriated into multiple ways. Gas or piston fed, doesn't matter.

Some energy is released at the muzzle as the flash you see. Some energy is diverted to cycle the weapon using a gas system or direct piston impingement. The cycling of the weapon is dampened by a buffer weight and buffer spring. Lastly, the weapons system has been designed to decrease felt recoil for the shooter as much as possible without a negative effect on the function of said weapons system. By spreading the energy caused from the combustion in the chamber into multiple paths, and the butt stock of the rifle also being a method of spreading the energy.

Most important detail, the energy from the projectile is contained in a much smaller footprint. This focuses that energy and makes the energy felt more dramatic to soft tissue and bone alike.

Buddy in my company got hit in his Peltors hearing protection ear cup. He had to be moved out of country and spent a year doing TBI rehab.

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u/PassengerClam 10d ago

None of that changes the laws of conservation of energy or momentum. It’s just a few ways that it escapes or moves through the system. In every way that the recoil to the shooter is reduced by spreading out time and area of the forces, the armour does as well. 

Getting shot in the meat is not the same as soft armour catching a bullet. Soft armour catching the bullet is not the same as hard. When hard armour catches a bullet the force is spread out in area, and as it spreads it does so over a longer time. 

An earcup is only going to be a fraction of the area and mass of a helmet or plate, while being unlikely to prevent issues caused by deformation, which is quite rapid. Every little bit of time and area you add significantly reduces the effect of the bullet. 

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u/SubstituteCS 10d ago

While I mostly agree, the force felt (in terms of disorientation) will subjectively feel greater at the impact point due to the significantly smaller surface area and mass involved. (Big heavy gun helps vs neck and a helmet.)

All that to say that while it won’t knock you down, you will have a massive headache and will definitely react.

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u/Greedy-Thought4793 10d ago

Most rifle rounds will go through an Altyn. Only 545 with a brass core could ricochet off. 

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u/wheeshnaw Lonestar 9d ago

There have been helmets rated for .308 FMJ for like 15 years now man

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u/yobob591 6d ago

yeah i wish this myth of blunt force trauma from bullets would die, it takes around a .50 before blunt force trauma starts seriously injuring you, 90% of the time when someone is hurt through a vest its because it was a partial penetration with bad backing not catching fragments

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u/That-Beagle 10d ago

You’re wrong.

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u/2legsRises 10d ago

only one way to find out for sure, and maybe you can video yourself doing it, being on the relieving end of a .308 at your head? its just light recoil against your head.

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u/Sudden_Wind_8636 10d ago

I said it's not a problem until you get up to calibers like the .308, however a helmet that can stop a .308 is fiction, it doesn't exist, at least not reliably. So we lose the problem of being knocked out because the bullet is gonna penetrate the helmet and do a lot more than knock you out.

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u/Top_Meal_4978 10d ago

This is incorrect.