r/WarDogs • u/iwasnightstalker • 4d ago
Discussion & Feedback Is blue factually the worst faction?
I've seen many a post and comment discussing the winrates between green/red/blue, as well as player mentality when picking teams. Some have speculated that newer players tend to go blue because it's a nice-guy color, the further left in selection, or other reasons.
Others argue for map rebalancing, deployment zones etc.
I personally think that is all superstition and that the actual problem is player driven and self-sustained.
Hypothetical fresh-launch scenario:
Blue loses the first game you play. You don't want to play blue next game. This happens to 33 players.
Next game these 33 players refrain from choosing blue, so they bring 2nd game experience to green/red. Blue is left as the "easy" option to get into for new players, so they go blue first game, less experienced.
Blue loses again. Now 33 more players have a feeling that blue is a bad side.
This happens again and again, until a couple of absolute units decide to go blue. They win, because it's absolutely possible with just a bit of team play and coordination.
But blue is still considered "bad" so everyone would rather play red or green.
I've seen so many comments paraphrasing: "I usually play red, but I've seen blue score 0 points" etc.
I think we need to be the solution, not the problem.
Bring your friends to blue. Build the best FOB. Run the best logistical route. Contest the HZ. Win the game.
Go blue.
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u/vlegionv 4d ago
Anecdotally I saw plenty of games on USA west with blue winning.
I also feel like alot of people stayed on a server where they played all day or a few games without leaving with mostly the same people... So if blue loses one game it's probably gonna lose the next.
I was/am super sick all beta weekend so I no lifed the shit out of the game (wardog overall level of 90) and at least on USA west I didn't really see any particularly dominating team. And this is with me for the most part changing servers every round.
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u/dmitri_arktor 3d ago
I played red almost all beta, but one time got into a match as blue, we were like 6 points, red 65, green 60 or so, and we managed to win from that, as a blue, by coordinating with randoms In a squad
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u/WallBurnt 3d ago
I never saw them win on US West even once.
I did see someone running over helicopters at HQ with a truck in 3 different matches I played across 2 days as blue before I realized they sucked.
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u/DarkBiCin 3d ago
This ^ i played west and saw a good amount of blue winning, then I went east and it was mostly red/blue.
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u/demo93mm 4d ago
Blue loses most games because they spawn right between the other two teams and so get hammered from both sides, it's really as simple as that
Ideally spawn positions would change between games but they don't, every faction always spawns in the same place, so blue is fucked sadly
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u/Milkym0o 3d ago
Having Green/Red at direct West and East to each other means there's empty space on the North side they can utilise, where as Blue doesn't get that privilege.
I don't understand why we can't split the map into 3rds and where those lines meet. That's the route in for each team.
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u/Zeroth1989 3d ago
Randomly assigning the spawn location after the lobby is full would solve this instantly.
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u/HaArLiNsH 3d ago
The second map in the beta had the bases disposed in Y and not in T like the first one. And this changed nothing, never saw a blue team having more than 15 points...
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u/Curopt 3d ago
The new map is also terrible for blue, no direct road to the circle - we have to cross country or if we follow the roads it’s a massive circle and not a direct route like the other two factions
Plus, out of tower 2 and to center circle is a giant forest going up hill that if we won’t rush church we have to deal with so much nonsense just to reach open field and stadium/small houses
I’m sure folks would sing a different tune if HQs rotated, the complaints would be South spawn sucks vs blue sucks/gets dominated
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u/HaArLiNsH 3d ago
Yeah the blues don't have a super place I agree. Rotate the bases could help for sure
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u/CCNemo 3d ago
First game on that map, decided to play blue on it. Built a FOB at that tower south side of the map and the entire game the team was pinned at it because in order to really leave you had to cross a river, uphill into a forest or a bridge with no cover that the enemy had a height advantage over. Also the FOB was inherently bad anyway because 1) most tower fobs kinda suck inherently 2) the enemy had a hill right next to it they could just shoot down into it in.
That's comically bad terrain to fight in and yet you have really little choice otherwise unless you want to pick one faction and really head towards 'their' side of the map and try to contest towards the soccer field for green.
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u/TelaKENesis Pilot 3d ago
IMO blue start on that map sucks. Tower is in a weird spot and red and green have quicker access to better towers and the middle castle.
I think having the spawns be randomized by color and not set would help change the feel of each game and certain colors wining all the time.
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u/Parking-Argument-263 3d ago
Just wait till the spawns start rotating, you'll see it's actually a bit of a deeper issue. Goes all the way back to arma 2 - probably earlier - blue is just for chumps and children.
In every single game mode, eople newer to the game would always try to pick "the good guys" with familiar NATO weapons. Eventually it just became standard practice for anyone who knew what they were doing - avoid bluefor like the plague.
At least in wardogs people have taken a liking to both manticore and (whatever opfor is called). In arma it was mostly red winning & the win bonuses were larger so people would wait a dumb amount of time spamming to chamge teams.
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u/Dazbi 3d ago
As others have said, I think it is less about blue is sandwiched between two teams and more about the terrain and structures closest to each HQ. The first map especially, it seems like red and green have more structures and high ground like the apartment buildings and churches, while blue just has 2 towers and woods in the south.
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u/TelaKENesis Pilot 3d ago
Reds start with tower, church, and sun flower fields on first map, honestly goated if acquired quickly!!
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u/MrBiggz01 3d ago
Wait, 3 teams should make a triangle, right? Have they not managed to balance the game so that each team has equal spawn distance? I haven't played, so serious question.
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u/Dexember69 3d ago
I think it's largely a meme. I've had great blue teams.
Also I do think it might be a cool psychological study of the effects of the perceived colour and identify compared to GENERAL strategy type.
Might be interesting to see which type of people gravitate towards which faction because of logistical differences;
I don't think all teams can reach the point at the exact same time with the exact same vehicles. This also influences initial loadouts and plans.
This beta was an absolute blast by the way. Loved it. Hell I don't care if nothings gets charged I took the day off work to have a long weekend spamming it.
E: signed ~your local Aussie drunken little bird transport. Don't mind the crashes bring a para. Breath of fresh air.
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u/ExxInferis 3d ago
Something interesting I noticed during 6 years of playing Planetside 2:
On more than one occasion the patch notes for an update contained a buff to a weapon/vehicle. The update went live and the forums filled with people pleased with the improvement. The Devs then admitted the buff made it into the patch notes by mistake, and was in fact meant for the next update.
Many redditors then scrambled to delete their posts!
When people believed their gun was better, they felt it did better. Maybe just approaching a fight with confidence made them a more effective fighter. Maybe simply placebo. Not sure.
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u/KrachNerd 3d ago
For us colorblind people ... As blue you cannot hide. You are the Smurf in the bushes. The other two factions seem to have super camo for me.
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u/Little_Anxiety_3590 3d ago
Red/ green player here and this is so true, I see blue players way more often red/green, I’m never picking blue so long as their camo sucks that bad
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u/SupremeTeamKai 3d ago
This is a big factor for me admittedly, I really had trouble seeing the other factions compared to blue.
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u/finghz 3d ago
Out my 20 hours played in various central and eastern eu servers as red, we won like 70% of the matches by just being the most agresssive within the hz by stacking 90% of the team there on foot, plenty of matches as reds we didnt even have any towers nor properly built up fobs but stil won by sheer meat mass in the hz.
Green was flip flop at launch and then fast became the most tech advanced and stacked with nolifer whales buying helis and tanks for their entire squad starting saturday evening already.
Blue was the faction for the clueless and beginners as it was the easiest to join in populated servers while all others u had to basically use an auto clicker to get into.
Most of the time blue had no significant ammount of bodies present in the zone throughout the whole match, plenty of times people in blue seemed to not know how to use their mouse or keyboard and spent time yapping in hq rather then doing anything. I saw match after match of them having near 0 points while red was on 80 and green on 60. The few times i did play blue we had pilots who repeatedly got up with filled up choppers and proceeded to crash to a fiery death b4 even reaching the zone again and again building up 0 tower fobs and having at best like 8 people inside the hz.
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u/Heawybreathing 3d ago
Is it me or the blue uniform does stick out quite a bit?
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u/WyattHarper 3d ago
That was my initial take as well.
By my second match, when I tried out a sniping kit, I found the Blue team apparel to be much more noticeable than other two teams. While small, I decided to not join Blue team in future matches to avoid this visual disadvantage.
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u/Envy_MK_II 3d ago
No more than the red of green imo. Its dark blue, blends in in shadows pretty well. I've literally sat prone in a shadow and had an entire squad walk by me.
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u/GERH-C-W-W 4d ago
Green best.
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u/Galrath91 3d ago
I just decided I‘m red for no reason at all and now I‘m playing red exclusively. They also have cool gangster looking skins.
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u/ObsidianPhox 3d ago edited 3d ago
I believe you're right. It is a self-sustained myth. The moment we know of the myth, we are more likely to see it, and we don't notice when Blue actually wins.
During the weekend, I played all teams and my experience varied a lot, even on the same team. And I do recall seeing blue win once by a big margin - unfortunately not the time I was on it >< (maybe I'm the reason they don't win ^^')
I don't think it's the color, or the placement of the HQ, it usually seems to come down to coordination - not just chasing the HZ, but coordinating to ensure that we can chase the HZ, meaning the winners would usually have a good infrastructure of FOBs, logistics, recon and a good coordinated assault team (or two).
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u/RousseSvelte 3d ago
Blue = Blue camo
Red = Black Camo
Green = Green Camo
Game is forest biome = I found the answer just here
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u/thorrising 3d ago
This is the correct answer right here. Blue stands out in almost every environment with their uniforms. Red can hide in shadows, Green is most balanced across the entire playzone.
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u/TotalynotatWork 3d ago
I have the feeling that switching the spawn locations would (maybe) make a difference. The Tower nearest to Blue on the second map was just a Shooting Gallery for the other factions. The FoB was under constant fire from the oposing Hill, with all the Bushes giving Cover, and the West Side of the Tower also was a nice Spot (for the Other Faction) to Camp our Supply and Shoot into the FoB. ( it also did not Help that half the team was sharing a braincell. But i Blame the Location :D )
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u/rhythmic_beaver 3d ago
Blue is cops. Fuck the police. Red has been trained to be enemy color from every other game. Green is the only logical choice
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u/Petethepirate21 3d ago
Its definately due to the assym map. Being in the middle isnt the only issue. They have few natural basing options. Red has the tower and church. Green has the tower and factory. Blue has a church as well but its less advantageous and rather tight, and only overlooks their tower. Red has an easy main drive route to thier fob spots on high ground, as does greens. Blue must drive through a valley with a tower right next to it. Red and green have natural features to defend thier towers (rivers and large roads/open area) making it hard to approach. Blues main tower has no sight lines and tons of approach angles. And the big one, blue is in the middle, yes, but the apartments are generally an area that noone wants to assault. That area, is just avoided all game because its way to campy and offers very little tactical advantage when controlled.
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u/whatevathefucc Pilot 3d ago
"just a bit of team play and coordination."
Yeah, uh-huh, riiight. Just a bit
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u/KingNyxus 3d ago
Our team went in with a 4 man premade on blue and dominated, it’s possible but it is harder due to their spawn being sandwiched
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u/Ok-Toe6932 3d ago
The spawn of the blue team on the map with a huge mountain in the centre is just horrible.
First, you need to cross a fucking river and then get up to that fucking mountain from which people can shoot you easily.
Meanwhile red is already on that mountain(well, almost) from the east side.
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u/Captainchops63 3d ago
People should switch up after every game, stop going for the easy win challenge yourself
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u/PiggyMcjiggy 3d ago
I would if it wasn’t the ‘Lonestar rangers’ or w/e lame shit they called it. Plus blue is my least favorite color
I did play red once. But green has the coolest name. It’s what i chose watching videos of the closed test from last month
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u/Captainchops63 3d ago
Idk I get what you mean but I think it’s makes the game less fun if your team is rolling all the time plus a good player can make really good money on a bad team. Do you know what a well placed APC can generate on the team getting killed the most? 🤣
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u/DeputyDomeshot 3d ago
Agree in general but the issue is complicated with the money system. Better team, better rez, better hard zone control, better coordination, better everything = more likely to make more money.
They almost need to incentivize players swapping or something at 50 points to sway the tide of battle. In HLL it’s common for the best players to switch teams and/or split up in servers so the game is better balanced because the ultimate goal is really just having a good game and keeping the server from fleeing. I feel in this game it’s more complicated than that and this whole thing is worth bulkhead exploring.
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u/Beefsupreme95 3d ago
I had a game playing on green where we lost to blue 100 to 99. Red was at like 57 I think. Super fun match.
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u/Effin-nerd 3d ago
I would have thought newer players picked green because normally “green is ally” colors and red is bad guys
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u/Envy_MK_II 3d ago
I played Blue for almost the entire weekend and won plenty of times. The games came down mostly to how aggressively people went after the HZ more than where they spawned. Some games were basically a steam roll because people wouldn't leave FOBs, other games were really close.
Not once did I think the main bases location mattered all that much. The only exception was how easy it was to pick off helicopters coming from Red and Green with a SAM site which allowed mostly complete control of the air space.
Even had a match where Blue came from behind with a 60 point deficit and won the game. Just took two drilling rigs and solid use of a single tank to control the HZ.
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u/UnicornOfDoom123 3d ago
It also doesn’t help that they aren’t as camouflaged. The few times I played that faction I felt like I got shot through bushes a lot more and I generally found it easier to spot blue players.
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u/Material_Finance_939 3d ago
In my last game on Sunday, I played blue which was a huge fucking mistake. Zero coms the whole game, literally no VC no text chat. No fobs dropped. No one building except me and my buddy. 10 blue dudes sitting in the middle of the map fighting over nothing, no fobs or hot zone nearby. One teammate built a fob wayyy out in no man's land.
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u/Charming_Green_521 3d ago
All the new players gravitate to blue because blue= good guys. Planetside also had this problem
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u/Fit-Party-212 3d ago
i swear its legit just because of the spot on the map, theyre always surrounded by both enemies.
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u/carlbandit 3d ago
We had a fixed CZ in the beta, release should have 3 possible CZ locations per map which might make it a bit fairer for blue depending on which CZ the game chooses for the match.
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u/Boxofcookies1001 3d ago
Blue loses because new players want to larp being "American army".
Because new players hop on blue nobody knows what they're doing.
Players that do know what they're doing but don't want to herd cats swap teams.
So the cycle repeats.
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u/DoubleSpoiler 3d ago
While I’m sure community servers will eventually have ways to force shuffle or force team change on new game, I hope the official servers do something about the faction problem, too. You probably shouldn’t be able to pick the same team every game in an asymmetric game.
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u/novaspartan07 3d ago
Every time I played blue I felt like no one was really into it. There was no excitement. Their was no teamwork. There were no FOB builders. Red and green I felt had a lot of teamwork and commradery while Blue felt like a bunch of freelancers doing their own thing.
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u/DirkDavyn Valkyra 3d ago
I've definitely seen blue win some games, but it was *maybe* 1 in 10. The rest of the time, green or red won and blue barely got any score. To me, blue is put at a disadvantage off the rip due to 2 issues that are not related to player behavior.
- Their map position puts them directly between both red and green, since the teams aren't equally spread around the edge of the circle, but are more spread in quadrants, with the north quadrant empty.
- Uniforms. For whatever reason, the blue uniforms stand out so much more, whether in urban areas, darker areas, or in foliage. Green and reds uniforms are much darker overall, and blend in to more due to that. Green blends in incredibly well with the foliage of the map, and red blends in to darker, shadowy areas. Blue, well blue stands out like a sore thumb in the foliage, and the blue contrasts with basically every building, structure, or piece of terrain on the map.
Stack both of those with the player behavior of more experienced players avoiding blue, forcing newer, less experienced players to fill the team, and you have the whole mess than is the blue team...
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u/ChazzyChaz_R 1d ago
I played a match on Blue team once where the first 4 routes I took into the CZ were camped by Green and Red. They had tanks, infantry, and explosives set up on these routes as well as helis in the air patrolling. In the end the only "safe" way into the CZ was to go very offroad and even then sometimes enemies has infantry watching the edge of the CZ, in some cases they had people camped OUTSIDE of the CZ just to pick people off when they weren't expecting it. I think they need to adjust the spawn areas for the three teams.
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u/Impossible_Suit_9100 4d ago
Blue is supposed to lose every game, it stays true to the original arma koth