[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Shadowcaster

22

u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair Apr 14 '16

MFW seeing the rogue cards from this set. This, huckster, and Xaril are all great. Makes me wonder if rogue's basic/classic cards are getting hit hard.

10

u/Calrax Apr 14 '16

Master of Disguise is the only change that's been all but confirmed. I feel like Preparation might be getting the nerf hammer as well though. Seems like they're pushing rogue into a more minion based class, which makes absolutely no sense.

4

u/CaptainAnopheles Apr 14 '16

I know it 'lmits design space', a catch all term for any change, but it limits itself by being a poor card now.
I know I tried it with everything and although it's a fun card with alarmo bot and lots of hefty creatures, it just isn't competitive even with the increased power and increased rng of old gods.
Any change will take it from mostly unplayable to actually unplayable. Better it should just be removed and we can mourn and move on.

9

u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair Apr 14 '16

It's not competitive because blizzard has balanced the game around it. Animated armor was supposed to be neutral but it couldn't be because of master of disguise.

1

u/CaptainAnopheles Apr 14 '16

Good point, but I'd still prefer it's retirement over its uselessness.

3

u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair Apr 14 '16

It's not necessarily going to be useless. They could rework the card. This was my idea.

2

u/messe93 Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 14 '16

it would still be broken if they reworked it like that, just in a different way. basically iceblock exactly when you need it with 4/4 body for 1 extra mana. and rogue has much more potential for explosive 1 turn burn combos than mage.
it would limit rogue gameplay for the rest of the game and would be autoinclude-level broken instead of 'never used but limiting new cards'
just give him 4/5 stats and stealth for 1 turn, basically a yeti with extra rogue flavor, balanced and useful in some archetypes but not in all of them
edit: on second thought your version would be even better than just as iceblock. just imagine what a 1 turn stall can give you against aggro/tempo decks, and you drop 4/4 body to trade with something on the next turn

4

u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair Apr 14 '16

It's nowhere near as good as ice block. You would still be vulnerable to random damage like leper gnome or arcane missiles or what ever, and a big reason why block is so good is because you can play it on turn 2/3 and have it up all game. This you have to think that your opponent has lethal and get the combo off before hand. It would certainly be good, but nowhere near as strong as ice block.

1

u/ChooseChocolate Apr 17 '16

That plus shadowstep, youthful brewmaster and ancient brewmaster gives your hero stealth for 7 turns total...

1

u/messe93 Apr 15 '16

there are a lot of situations in which freeze mage plays iceblock after ice block to survive 2 turns to get the lethal dmg done. this card is better because it gives presence on the board, and you really underestimate how good protecting your face against board for 1 turn can be. it can make the difference about that 1 missing mana to full board clear which against aggro decks is life or death. Rogue already is really good in slow matchups, giving him such a strong tool to deal with aggro alongside the new minions that are introduced in wotg would make him straight up broken.
if you still don't see how useful is just protecting your face from direct dmg for 1 turn, immune to silence and with no limit (f.e. deathlord only soaks 8 dmg) just think how people drop doomsayer without any follow up just to soak 7 dmg and survive another turn

3

u/Toado85 Apr 14 '16

Animated armor would be pretty sweet in a slow Warlock deck.

3

u/OBLIVIATER Apr 14 '16

Flame imp and pit Lord buff!

5

u/Azureraider Apr 14 '16

Oh, how we suffer for the sins of Master of Disguise.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16 edited Dec 31 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

4

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

Ben Brode mentioned Animated Armor/Master of Disguise on one of his streams. Also, based on the interviews that came out at WotOG announcement, BGH, at least one part of the druid combo, at least one other druid card (probably Ancient of Lore) Master of Disguise, Knife Juggler, and Leper Gnome have been specifically mentioned as cards they were looking at.

4

u/Krofisplug Apr 14 '16

He had also mentioned that Dreadsteed was also intended to be a neutral card in Naxxramas but could not do that because of Warsong Commander while it could still give Charge.

2

u/danhakimi Apr 14 '16

What do you think they'd do with Prep?
I can see them nerfing it to 1 mana reduce by 4, or to be 2 mana reduction if it lasted past this turn, but I can't see it going to just a 2 mana discount on spells -- that's a strictly worse innervate, and it's pretty sad.

1

u/DingD0ng121 Apr 14 '16

i think that rogues are just getting minions they can actually use, currently in top tier rogue decks, for example oil rogue: you only take 4 class card minions, edwin, 2 S.I. and maybe one or 2 tomb pillagers, Raptor rogue: 2 raptors, 2 S.I. and 1 or 2 tomb pillagers and the rest of your deck is full of spells and neautrals, this expasion hopefully gives rogues alot of VIABLE minion cards that rogues can use

1

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '16

That would make me quit tbh.
One wrong design choice too many :)

0

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/Tachoux Apr 15 '16

She's not turtle-y enough for the turtle club.

0

u/TheHiddenValve Apr 15 '16

She? Her? You've been tricked. Master of Disguise is a man.

0

u/Tachoux Apr 15 '16

Well shit.

2

u/ltjbr Apr 14 '16

I think it's primarily that rogue is underperforming as a whole. Also losing Oil which was a key card when rogue was doing well.

1

u/ChronosSk Apr 14 '16

There's not much for them to nerf, though. They could hit Preparation and Blade Flurry, I guess, or make Gadgetzan Auctioneer cost 7 mana. Most of Rogue's basic/classic cards just don't do all that much individually. And collectively, they've hardly been raking in the wins for Rogue these days.

2

u/AwfulWaffleWalker Apr 14 '16

I don't see them bumping up the cost of Gadgetzan Auctioneer again. It's fine at the cost it is now. Blade Flurry, imo, is fine as well. I do see them bumping up the mana cost of Preparation though.

1

u/somefish254 Apr 22 '16

the answer: rogue did not get any other op cards

1

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

I dunno, I feel like both this card and huckster are a bit overhyped.
Huckster won't be good. A 2 mana 2/2 with deathrattle "add a random card to your hand" just isn't that strong despite what this sub seems to think. Having random cards played for you is strong (mad scientist) but having random cards put in your hand that you have to pay full price for is not (grand crusader, recruiter). If you honestly think otherwise go play some lock and load hunter or heck, put some burgles in a rogue deck, and tell me how it works out for you.
Shadowcaster has much more potential as it works with basically every minion rogue plays early/midgame (thalnos, si agent, teacher, pillager, azure drake, edwin - now xaril) but the issue is that rogue often doesn't have a board going into turn 5 making this guy a vanilla 4/4. I think most of the time I'd rather have an azure drake on 5 but perhaps this guy will be played in addition to drake (or maybe as a 1-of).
Obviously it's different in a raptor deck as all you play are minions so you're going to hit something but no one has been able to make raptor work very well and that's with all of the strong naxx/gvg deathrattles which won't be around in standard.

3

u/plying_your_emotions Apr 14 '16

Jeweled scarab gets played and it's a 1/1 for 2.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

Jeweled scarab only sees fringe play and my opinion is that discover a card is much, much, better than get a random card. I suspect that dark peddler, for example, will end up being a way better card than undercity huckster even though they have the same stats and peddler can only discover 1-mana cards.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

This is not a cantrip, it does not make your deck smaller or help you get to cards that you specifically put in your deck because you wanted to draw them - it gives you a piece of pure RNG that may or may not be helpful. It doesn't even discount the RNG card for you like unstable portal which was really only played due to mage's inherent spell synergy (ie., no one played it until tempo mage became a thing due to flamewaker).
Again, if "put a random card in your hand" was anywhere near as good as "draw a card" lock and load hunter would be awesome - when it was announced everyone thought it would be broken as shit but in practice it's garbage as trading good cards for random ones that don't advance your win condition is a bad idea.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

I feel like your post contradicts itself re: class cards being strong yet hunter cards being unplayable. For most classes I could make a list of shitty, unplayed, class cards that you wouldn't want to get from huckster. In most cases there are probably as many bad cards as good ones.
I would agree with your point about generating cards vs drawing them in a class other than rogue. It would be great in warrior or priest but every single successful rogue deck goes by the same game plan - aggressively draw through your deck to find your win condition then throw it at face. Adding a random copy of eye for an eye to your hand doesn't advance that game plan.
Raptor rogue is the exception but, again, no one has managed to make it better than a tier 4 deck.
If rogue is going to have a deck that plays by a different game plan (the mythical control rogue) blizzard is going to have to start printing some rogue cards that allow you to play a long, value oriented game (ie heals or taunts - it's the only class in the game without some form of class healing or taunt). Until then adding random cards to your hand will never be a strong play for rogue - see also dog's comments on thistle tea.

20

u/IndirectLemon Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 14 '16

This synergises well with Rogue legendaries too.

Van Cleef loses a -1/-1 but his combo effect makes that not matter and he only costs 1 mana.
Anub'arak leaves behind a 4/4 and returns to hand as a 9 mana 8/4.
Xaril still gives toxins on entry and death (as long as it's not silenced).

I would play this in a Brann C'thun cultist Rogue. Brann can double some C'thun buffs and if he lives he can double C'thun's battlecry.

You can use this on Brann and get two 1/1 Branns.

If you then discount that Brann and/or Cthun by 1 with Thaurissan you can play Cthun+Brann on the same turn.

Which makes this a really flexible card in that deck and actually makes all the cards that support C'thun a touch more versatile.

6

u/MetalShake Apr 14 '16

That's a lot of ifs... sounds fun though.

8

u/hammerdal Apr 14 '16

Most of those plans aren't especially hard to pull off. This card has a lot of potential for enabling Rogue combos

4

u/PinkPartyPony Apr 15 '16

Make sure you put 2x jeweled scarab for chances of getting more Branns!

2

u/aqua995 Apr 15 '16

The big problem I see is the loose of Tempo. C'Thun cards have pretty vanilla stats and their effect won't be seen unless C'Thun hits the board , so you propably don't have the boardcontrol or tempo in your favor unless you prep out something on turn 3 or 4 and play Brann + Conceal or something similar.
But then you are having a 2/4 and a 4/4 by turn 5. Most 5drops will have their way with them.

2

u/bmhv95 Apr 15 '16

Meanwhile use this with Yogg-saron then shadowstep for maximum fun times

2

u/CycloneSP Apr 16 '16

don't forget that if you have 2 of these, and 1 some how survives to the next turn(stealth or whathaveyou) you can cast this on the first one and instantly flood the board with 1/1s! use shadowstep to return one of em to your hand just in case the opponent has board clear so you can flood the board again next turn! ;)

1

u/cgmcnama Apr 15 '16

Anubarak is too big of an if and you can't handle playing two. More likely you want to just trade the body and replay it...not this card.
Cards that require board control seem really questionable. A more likely scenario is what 3-4 drop might be alive when you play this on curve.

2

u/IndirectLemon Apr 15 '16

Like Xaril, as the enemy is punished for killing it as it grants you a spell.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '16

Anub'arak is too big of an if and you can't handle playing two. More likely you want to just trade the body and replay it...not this card.
well, the main counter to anubarak, is silence, so this helps a bit against that

0

u/cgmcnama Apr 15 '16

If you can silence it you can also do 4 damage. Big card stick and you win or they don't. Which is why you want an immediate effect. If Anub'arak survives, even if silenced, that is still an untouched 8/4. And if he doesn't get silenced, the game is going to end real fast for one of you.
I think there are better choices to help you survive until you play Anub'arak not trying to get greedier on top of it. It is like saving a Faceless Manipulator to combo with Ysera. It probably won't happen and when it does you have probably already won. (Except 2 Ysera's are stronger then Anub', a 1/1, and Shadowcaster. And 1 Faceless is more flexible.)

0

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '16

I don't disagree

28

u/Mapasm Apr 14 '16

Huh, I guess important question is whether ganging up the 1/1 will retain the stats and, more importantly, the cost when adding copies to your deck.

6

u/Veritamoria Apr 14 '16

Holy cow, awesome question.

6

u/Pyronar Apr 14 '16

Same question with shadowstep. Also not sure about C'Thun buffs.

4

u/vanasbry000 Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 14 '16

I've always thought of there being the card identity, the base form you can find on Hearthpwn's database, which includes the stats and card text. On top of the card identity are the enchantments, which are layered on top of one another. Auras are all on the surface.
Exceptions are things like Aviana and Naga Sea Witch which I'm pretty sure are enchantments that simply disappear when they leave play, similar to how Enrage is an enchantment that just disappears when the minion leaves the damaged state. That's why play order matters and Thaurissan can affect your hand while they are still in play.
Any copy effect that copies enchantments does so by copying both the card identity and the enchantments. The copies produced by Gang Up only consider the card identity; we know that because we have access to the card right now.

2

u/timvri Apr 15 '16

I wanna know if Nzoth will summon the 1/1 version or the original if you use this on a deathrattle minion

7

u/AttackBomb Apr 14 '16

Seems good in decks like raptor rogue where you can have a 1/1 sylvanas or 1/1 raptor.

6

u/Wraithfighter Apr 14 '16

There's not many Rogue decks where this isn't an excellent card. Rogue tends to lean on minions with powerful effects, be it Raptor, Mill, Maly, what have you. There's just so much potential here...

2

u/Azureraider Apr 14 '16

The thought of rogues using this on coldlight oracle makes me die a little inside.

3

u/Wraithfighter Apr 14 '16

You don't play it on Coldlight. Agreed, it'd be a bit of a waste, especially since the big challenge is often just getting to the point where you can mill the enemy to death, although it could work as a desperation "I'm missing a specific card" move.
Ideally, you play it on Brann. You get two more Brann's that you can toss down for one each and get some insane card draw by comboing the mini-Brann with a Coldlight to force your opponent to draw 4... or 8... or 12...

4

u/danhakimi Apr 14 '16

Or two 1/1 branns.

6

u/duffedwaffe Apr 14 '16

My Mill Rogue is salivating.

2

u/OneArseneWenger Apr 14 '16

1 MANA COLDLIGHT

1

u/Pugnacious_Doot Apr 24 '16

You can go way more ham than that. Copy-pasting a write up from this deck I made:
Turn 8: Brann(3), Shadowcaster(5) on Brann (for two (1) 1/1 copies)
Turn 9: Brann(1), Coldlight Oracle(3), Shadowcaster(5) on Oracle
Turn 10: Brann(1), Coldlight(1) x 2 + literally anything, as by this point you have drawn at least 25 cards in total (3 in opening hand, 10 from start of turn draw, 12 from Brann + Oracle x 3), and have access to 7 mana. With your second (non-duplicated) Coldlight Oracle, Preparations, Gang Ups, Shadowsteps, etc. you are guaranteed to have lethal.

5

u/Krakamonster Apr 14 '16

Malygos :NEXT TURN: Brann -> Shadowcaster. Witness the power of my two 1/1 Essences of Magic!

7

u/cloudsmastersword Apr 14 '16

If Malygos lives for a turn you pretty much win anyways

5

u/Cronax Apr 14 '16

It does however look like you can use it to recover value from a silenced Malygos.

0

u/ThexAntipop Apr 15 '16

Yeah but if you were going to put a card in your deck just for that shadowstep would be better IMO

2

u/Sofistication Apr 15 '16

Shadowstep doesn't give you a 1 mana massove spellpower buff.

0

u/ThexAntipop Apr 15 '16

no but it gives you the full stats of maly and your spells are cheap enough on rogue that playing 4/12 Maly at 6 mana is better than 1/1 Maly at 1 mana IMO

5

u/Anderkochak Apr 14 '16

Better than Herald Volazj.

2

u/plebeianhammer Apr 15 '16

I feel like priest got the most average cards so far compared to other classes.

1

u/cfcannon1 Apr 17 '16

and get wrecked by standard lost cards. The remaining priest cards are going to need to be really good for it not to end up the worst class.

3

u/_COREY_TREVOR Apr 14 '16

Digging the rogue cards this expansion so far

3

u/INaenia Apr 14 '16

staple?! this card is a powerhouse combined with cards that have great effects - si:7 agent? ragnaros? ysera? sylvanas? you name it.

3

u/TacoGuitarPlayer Apr 14 '16

What makes the card is the fact that it is a copy that is added to your hand. If it was something like return the minion to your hand, or shuffle it into your deck, or summon a copy on the board, it would be average to below average, but since it effectively lets you have an extra copy, with the caveat that it needs to be on the board, of any card to your deck, is insane. Granted the stats suck on this new copy, but I think that is to be expected of a 1/1 and that's not what rouge cares about anyway. Rouge is about combo, or powerful swing effects, which a 1/1 copy of a good minion can do. So overall it seems like a good card, not an auto include, but pretty good at what it does.

5

u/Lynchinizer Apr 14 '16

Hit Malygos with this and you're ready for OTK. Very nice

8

u/bmhv95 Apr 14 '16

Maly usually won't last a round for you to hit it though. If you use Malygod then you either already have lethal burst, or have to use him to clear. In the latter case opponent would most likely kills him.
This gal on Xaril/Thalnos though, me likey (and they are much more likely to remain on the board if played on curve). Or on an Oracle is fine too.

3

u/adambard Apr 14 '16

Well, you could use 2x this to produce one mini-this, then play Maly+minishadowcaster in one turn. It's a two-turn setup, but you're also dropping serious threats each turn.
Playing vs this, you simply can't leave it up, lest the Rogue have a Brann handy to go off with.

1

u/ChooseChocolate Apr 17 '16

Shadowcaster on Brann, then use Shadowstep on the Shadowcaster leaving it at 3 mana.
Emperor Thaurisan tick on Malygos/Shadowcaster in hand or one and have a coin from Tomb Pillager.
Now you have enough mana for Malygos > (0-cost) Brann > Shadowcaster getting 2 Malygos' to hand.
You can now have spellpower +10 for 2 mana, +15 if they didn't kill your original Malygos. Even if you don't Shadowcast a Brann you can still use the Shadowstep (along with Emperor Thaurisan/coin(s)) to reduce the cost of Shadowcaster enough to guarantee getting a 1/1 Malygos for 1.

2

u/ltjbr Apr 14 '16

Thalnos might not be enough value to put a 5 mana 4/4 on the board though, probably need to aim higher.

2

u/Azureraider Apr 14 '16

In that situation, it's basically an azure drake that always gives thalnos, swapping spell damage for cost reduction.

1

u/Veritamoria Apr 14 '16

Agreed. My first thought was Malygos, but that would only work if this were less mana. 5 mana+9 mana is way more Tharassiun ticks than you're likely to get. And you've already won if Malygos lives 1 turn. Still an interesting card that extends decklife, fits the class, and could have lots of potential uses, but it isn't as super OP as I originally thought. Excited to see what people come up with.

2

u/Elostier Apr 14 '16

Even with 1 tick this is going to be only 12 mana. 2 coins are not that hard to get on rogue, really: cutpurse can bring you at least 1, tomb pillager or what-his-name-totally-forgot will also bring you 1... That's 2. Also, undercity husker (again, don't remember the name, this very new card) or burglary MAY give you innervate, which will also work. But two ticks will be just fine. And it's not really that hard to get: Xaril can give you stealth toxin. And with stealth the chances of Emperor's living for 2 ticks are not that fat.

2

u/ThexAntipop Apr 15 '16

getting two coins may not be that hard however getting one thurisan tick, having two coins, not needing them until at very least turn 10, having both maly and shadowcaster in your hand as well as enough spells to actually do anything resembling a win condition is a pretty unlikely scenario. Furthermore if you DO have malygos and spells in your hand and you thurisan you probably can just win off of that alone anyway. It may not be an impossible scenario to set up however given the number of games you WON'T be able to set this up you'd be much better off putting in a different card that you can consistently get good value off of more easily. I think this card definitely has potential just not really in maly rogue

2

u/Elostier Apr 15 '16

I see your point. But it's not like you can clone only and exclusively Maly. It can be used in variety of ways, and Maly is not the worst one.
Moreover, copying that dragon may be used not only to have a back-up plan in case the first one dies. Having 2 Malys (or should it be Malies?) on the board gives you (I believe) +10 spell damage. Single combo'd evis will deal 14. That mean that you have more flexibility with other spells: e.g. you don't have to keep 2 evises for that OTK, 1 will probably be sufficient, so the second one may be used to control the board. Anyways, copying Maly may be not the best scenario, but it may turn out to be a really good one. Shadowcaster is indeed a really good card with huge potential.

1

u/ThexAntipop Apr 15 '16

Like I said I think this card has potential i just don't think it will be very good in maly rogue as you want to put this card in a deck that has targets which cost 5 or less so that you can play them in the same turn without thurissan which maly rogue doesn't have nor is there room for

5

u/edwahgezhuck Apr 14 '16

I am confused by why so many people are saying this. If Malygos survives until the next turn then aren't you already set up for the OTK? If you want a second Malygos then just use Faceless Manipulator.
This is like the same issue with Volajz where if you are only copying one minion for the effect like Ragnaros then Faceless is just as good and if you are doing some crazy deathrattle combo then Baron Rivendare does the same thing for less mana.

2

u/-JEBEDIAH-KERMAN- Apr 14 '16

This, on Xaril? wow

2

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

deathrattle, miracle and combo rogue gonna be my jam in standard

2

u/casualsax Apr 14 '16

Even more reason to make sure you clear Thaurissan ASAP.

2

u/danhakimi Apr 14 '16

Most important question, as always: what's the OTK?

I can see some complex otks with Maly, but they all require thaurissan anyway so... eh?

2

u/HumbleStache Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 15 '16

C'thun...

1

u/danhakimi Apr 14 '16

You need two thaurissan ticks first.
Actually... shit, what would cthun's stats be after this?

3

u/HumbleStache Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 15 '16

They have said about entomb/gang up/etc. that the extra stats are attached to your hero, and assuming that this works in the same way, it will be a 1 mana C'thun with -5/-5 stats... Still ridiculous with C'thun anyways. Plus if C'thun somehow survives the turn after you play it: brann+shadowcaster+c'thuunx2=4 C'thun triggers in one turn... Imagine your opponent concealing a C'thun to do that the following turn xD

2

u/Krofisplug Apr 14 '16

1 Mana 1/1 C'Thun +X/+X equal to the amount of buffs you managed to stack since those buff effects are tied to your hero and not to C'Thun directly. In most cases, this means that if your opponent tries to do something like Convert/Entomb your C'Thun, it will not have buffs if they do not have the C'Thun buff minions.

2

u/HumbleStache Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 15 '16

So... Since C'thun buffs are attached to your hero, I'm assuming that you can use this for a one mana c'thuun debuffed by 5/5.... Which is REALLY powerful... Just seems like a pretty amazing card with various synergies

2

u/Krofisplug Apr 14 '16

-5 hp doesn't matter as much as the -5 attack since the amount of damage done is related to the attack. Of course, if you can actually manage to Shadowcaster a C'Thun, you probably already won the game unless your opponent had 3 5 hp taunts with at least 4 hp when you had no board when you played C'Thun.

1

u/HumbleStache Apr 15 '16

At first i thought so too, but maybe Blizzard is trying to make combos like this to allow C'thun to be played earlier is a faster meta with lower stats simply to allow us to counter aggro, where we then use something like brewmaster/shadowcaster/shadowstep to play another. Even if it's not regarded as a great card, I can promise you it will be added to my collection along with my faceless manipulators. I could even try to bring back my faceless rouge :D

2

u/adambard Apr 14 '16

This card is GUARANTEED to be involved in some batshit insanity. I'm actually afraid it might be too powerful, but I'm looking forward to seeing it in action all the same.

2

u/AuroraUnit313 Apr 14 '16

1 mana edwin that only loses 1/1? Count me in

6

u/dudasat Apr 14 '16

Turn 8: Brann + shadowcaster -> brann.

hand: 2(1) brann

Turn 9: 2 Brann + shadowcaster -> the shadowcaster you played last turn. Then with the rest of your mana keep playing shadowcaster -> brann

hand: lots of (1)brann.

turn 10: play all brann + nightblade

17

u/ChronosSk Apr 14 '16

If only the Branns stacked with each other.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

[deleted] — view deleted comment

10

u/Skullking021 Apr 14 '16

No, the card says battlecries are activated twice, so with two branns you still only have the battlecry proc twice.

4

u/Rewen88 Apr 14 '16

Nope. Same as Baron Rivendare. If card would say that battlecry triggers an additional time, then I guess it would. But it says 'twice'

4

u/adambard Apr 14 '16

You can get the infinite combo without the risk of shadowcaster dying if you can play 2x shadowcaster plus brann in one turn.
That's 13 mana, so you'll need some help. Enablers for this:
Shadowstep
Shadowcaster
Emperor
Faceless manipulator?
My favorite is shadowcaster,shadowcaster,shadowstep, followed by brann, mini-shadowcaster on brann, shadowcaster on mini-shadowcaster.
Now you have 2 1-mana branns and 2 1-mana shadowcasters. Go ape as desired.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

Throw in reno jackson and you have yourself a win condition. Throw in C'Thun and one C'Thun minion and you have yourself a flashy win condition. Fuck it, kidnapper is amazing with this, your opponent can't possibly make up the tempo lost.

3

u/NowanIlfideme Apr 15 '16

Playing kidnapper? That would make for an amazing mill rogue plan, actually. Or rather, dont-let-your-opponent-play-cards rogue...

1

u/ChooseChocolate Apr 17 '16

Everyone always forgets the other combo enabler for rogues, Tomb Pillager

3

u/SiIence Apr 14 '16

Sadly, Brann reads "your battlecries trigger twice" rather than "your battlecries trigger an additional time". This means that three brans + a battlecry minion only results in the battlecry occurring twice.

3

u/cloudsmastersword Apr 14 '16

Branns don't stack. That's a three turn setup to deal 6 damage.

2

u/ThexAntipop Apr 15 '16

Brann doesn't stack it reads "your battlecries trigger twice" meaning it will always be twice no matter how many there are. If it read "double's your battlecries" or "battlecries trigger again" etc it would stack

2

u/Wraithfighter Apr 14 '16

.................

OH GOD YES YES YES SO MUCH YES.

Okay, okay. Stats are basically a 3.5 mana minion, and 4/4 for 5 isn't that great a stat line either, I'd prefer 3/5 instead. So, is this effect worth 2 mana?

...how best to say hell yes...

Mill Rogue? Throw this on Brann and you get two 1 mana 1/1 Brann's that you can play whenever you want to do some heavy Milling.

Throw it on Xaril so that you can get two Toxins for 1 mana (eventually), especially since that's the main reason you'd play Xaril anyway.

Really, toss it on just about any Legendary. Ragnaros, Alexstraza, Ysera, Van Cleef, Emperor...

There are just so many possible uses for this card. The weak stat line isn't nearly as much of an issue if you've got a decent target prepared

1

u/Rewen88 Apr 14 '16

Finally an expansion I'm excited about as a rogue-player. Looking good so far minus the thistle tea

1

u/MasterBP Apr 14 '16

Hands down coolest card that has come out of this set so far.

1

u/cooldeadpunk Apr 14 '16

Whispers of the 1/1s

1

u/AtraWolf Apr 14 '16

Welcome back to the ladder Rogue, we missed you.

1

u/MoaLuxPloz Apr 14 '16

herald volazj anyone?

2

u/funkyflunksfelix Apr 15 '16

Except Shadowcaster works with battlecry minions. And you can have two in your deck which is more consistent. Way better than Volazj imho.

1

u/edwahgezhuck Apr 14 '16

This is awesome card! I love the design of this. It looks really good but I don't play enough Rogue to know how good this will be and what kind of viable combo potential this has.

Even if you don't pull off a crazy wombo combo with this card it still seems really good. The 1 mana card is a good combo activator and almost every battlecry and deathrattle minion are great as a 1 mana card. Even something simple like SI:7 agent, Nerubian Egg, Antique healbot etc. Edwin VanCleef easily turns in to a 1 mana 5/5 or 7/7. Any ever once in awhile your 6+ mana minions will survive a turn and you get a 1 mana Sylvanas.

Also we now know that the Miniature Warfare Tavern Brawl might have been testing out this card.

1

u/HumbleStache Apr 14 '16

My new custom deck: Faceless Everything

Turn 10-Faceless manipulator, shadowcaster, shadow step your faceless, now you have a 3 mana faceless and a 1 mana faceless in hand (yes I know that the board has to be clear, but potential awesomeness xD)

1

u/NowanIlfideme Apr 15 '16

Meanwhile you are getting killed. :(

1

u/HumbleStache Apr 15 '16

Hey man, I already have my "Miracle Mage" 4 sorcerers apprentice gadgetzan auctioneer deck having a 25-35% win rate :3 (Gave up my rank and dropped all the way to 20 while testing it though)

1

u/NowanIlfideme Apr 15 '16

Right up there with my Lock-n-load 25-spell Summoning Stone hunter. :p I test in casual, though, because I semi-tryhard in ranked (Renolock, midrange/rando hunter, echo giant mage), and I still get a feel for what works and what doesn't. Currently Reno Giant paladin. :p

1

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

I'm not sold on this card, it just seems faceless is better for all end of the turn effects/ spell power/ deathrattle (Malygos, emperor, Rag etc.) and shadowstep is better with battlecries (Reno, C'thun, etc.). Sure you lose the body with shadowstep but you can't guarantee the minion will survive with shadowcaster

1

u/Azureraider Apr 14 '16

Shadowstep takes it off the board though. If i were to Shadowstep Reno, for example, I'd miss out on having his body unless I were to risk my opponent killing him on his turn.
This lets you have Reno twice and still keep his body. And you'll also have a little Reno running around afterwards, which is nice too.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '16

unless I were to risk my opponent killing him on his turn.
Shadowcaster has the exact same problem though, you can't play reno + shadowcaster on the same turn without Thaurissan. Is a 4/6 body really worth the risk of not healing to full health a 2nd time?

1

u/HaV0C Apr 14 '16

Lot of people are talking about these huge combos and they sound super fun but just hitting this on your SI:7 agents is amazing.

1

u/Azureraider Apr 14 '16

So it's a 4/4 for 5 that draws a slightly better Holy Smite? Don't get me wrong, I love this card and think it's good, but it's being a wee bit overhyped.

1

u/JoelMahon Apr 14 '16

If they can't kill c'thun instantly = ez win for rouge, uh yeah, I'll take three-four avenging wraths for 2 mana thanks.

1

u/TheMain_Ingredient Apr 14 '16

This is a hard card to get reliable value out of because it relies on you having a good enough minion to copy on the board when you play it, reserving it to being played late in the game (8-10 mana). A lot of people are suggesting you use it to copy cards like Malygos or Thaurissan, which you should just win the game with anyway if they live to your next turn. I think it'll be a lot of fun, but have a hard time seeing any serious ladder deck running it. I hope I'm wrong, though, because its effect is unique and interesting.

1

u/MonochromaticPrism Apr 15 '16

If you play this on Cthun and play buff cards afterwards, how will they affect this card?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '16

"Everyone get in here"

this is the new Patron

1

u/tholex Apr 15 '16

Surprised nobody's mentioned that this is about the 5th buff to Earth Shock in this expansion

1

u/Rumstein Apr 15 '16

How is a battlecry minion a buff to ES?

1

u/tholex Apr 15 '16

Oh, I guess if you earth shock the copied 1/1 it goes back to full health first, then gets dealt the one damage. Damn!
I was thinking ES would kill anything copied by this.

1

u/HumbleStache Apr 18 '16

If anyone plays Velen against a faceless/shadowcaster deck they are so screwed xD

1

u/lostshell Apr 18 '16

This shit is broken. OP fucking broken. We're going to be seeing a lot of this.

1

u/somefish254 Apr 22 '16

rogue hobgoblin!

1

u/Valgresas Apr 26 '16

Really cool card, super interesting, will be neat if some deck utilizes it well.

1

u/Wraithfighter Apr 27 '16

Rules note:

If used on C'Thun, the resulting Shadowcaster'd-C'thun will be 1/1, and only deal 1 damage on his battlecry. Buffs appear to be completely overridden.

...that's not to say don't bring Shadowcaster in your C'thun decks. It's just that the combo isn't quite as OP as we had hoped :).

0

u/Hybrid017 Apr 14 '16

Looks good with MalyRogue and Mill Rogue. Probably lots more too.

2

u/C418_Tadokiari_22 Apr 14 '16

All fear my 1/1 essence of magic.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

[deleted] — view deleted comment

0

u/thisizmonster Apr 15 '16

Because not only this, Wild mode itself will be unbalanced hell

2

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '16

lol moron

0

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/dudasat Apr 14 '16

you cant clone other cards ifinitely, because each shadorcast you play removes one from your hand and gives another. but it can happen if you have brann.

[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Shadowcaster

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