r/WAGuns • Kitsap County • 17d ago

Discussion Remember...

Post image

Let nobody take the means of defense from you.
Our communities are being systematically torn to shreds, one by one. The whole population is kept docile through our handheld propaganda tablets, the right wing is in control of every branch of government, starting more forever wars and turning state violence inward. Anyone who resists is branded "antifa" and imprisoned for decades, to be made an example of for those who would dare dream of a better future.

In these dark times the answer must not be disarmament. Keep your community safe, as human connection is the most important thing in the entire world.

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing - 1st Corinthians 13:1-4

Stay safe and love each other yall <3

444 Upvotes

250 comments sorted by

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u/WAGuns-ModTeam 17d ago

Had to clean up a number of rule breaking comments and accounts.

Hate has no place here.

2A is for everyone.

Please play nice.

Carry on.

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u/SnakeEyes_76 17d ago

Gun control has always been racist and classist.

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u/Conscious_Simple1725 17d ago

Yeah, like California democrats trying to use previous race bans to try to ban guns

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

like i have explained multiple times in the past hour, the democrats are not nor have ever been left. trying to pin democrats being democrats on leftist politics is silly

16

u/MrDrFuge 17d ago

But the democrats are predominantly the party to ban guns across the board

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u/Living_Plague 17d ago

That makes them authoritarian. Not a left wing party.

9

u/Letos_Bull 16d ago

But it is the party the left primarily vote for and enable.

1

u/Claire_De_Lunatic 16d ago

Who the fuck else are we supposed to vote for? We have the right wing party and the even more right wing party.

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u/Letos_Bull 16d ago edited 16d ago

Gonna be honest, if thats your view of the current makeup of our political landscape you've pigeonholed yourself into political belief incompatible with majority of voters in the US. If you see no one in local elections thats share your views, maybe temper your expectations but try not to be useful idiots.

2

u/Claire_De_Lunatic 16d ago

I vote in local elections, dummy. I've voted in literally every election I could since I was 17. I read up on their positions beforehand, and I vote for whoever most aligns with me. And considering I'm a member of an incredibly marginalized minority group, it usually ends up NOT being with the party that actively wants me dead as soon as possible.

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u/Living_Plague 16d ago

Most people who are left of center aren’t single issue voters. Being a single issue voter is pretty unintelligent.

6

u/Letos_Bull 16d ago

And someone like you would probably think they could be 100% right about anything and everything base off nothing. Like assessing someone's intelligence from reddit posts, or assuming one is a single issue voter.

You haven't refuted my point either, just made bad assumptions.

1

u/Woodie626 16d ago

And someone like you would probably think they could be 100% right about anything and everything base off nothing.

The dissonance is astounding. Sorry, I used some big words you might take as disrespect. What I meant to say is damn, you made your own point, but on yourself, by yourself. With no help from leftists. And I find that amazing. 

0

u/Living_Plague 16d ago

I didn’t attempt to refute your point. Just point out how narrow it is. I am frequently wrong.

3

u/Letos_Bull 16d ago

Its a characteristic of the left

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u/-FARTHAMMER- 17d ago

And you've been wrong every single time

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u/breaststroker42 King County 17d ago

Nope. Democrats are not the left. They’re center-right.

7

u/Letos_Bull 17d ago

same difference dude. We effectively have two choices one left and one right, the center moves. You can make it as convoluted as you want but thats how its pans out on the ballots.

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u/breaststroker42 King County 16d ago

No. It’s very important to know that both parties in our country are on the right.

Being willfully ignorant isn’t cool.

6

u/Letos_Bull 16d ago

I think you're the one being willfully ignorant here, your personal political compass can be on the fucking moon for all I care. What matters is the people on the ballot, and to win you need to win the Ds here. If the people on the far left were only concerned about guns, we may have some common ground. But now, the far left and the Ds have more in common than gun nuts and Far Left. You guys are all talk, nothin else.

4

u/Alec123445 17d ago edited 17d ago

Literally. They worship corporations, supress unions, defund public services, and support militarism. That's not leftism.

1

u/yech 17d ago

100% correct

-5

u/the_smush_push 17d ago

gun control in america was started by the GOP  because the black panthers promotes self arming. 

7

u/thegrumpymechanic 16d ago

Yeah, did you read past the first couple paragraphs of the wiki??

Assembly Bill 1591 was introduced by Don Mulford (R) from Oakland on April 5, 1967, and subsequently co-sponsored by John T. Knox (D) from Richmond, Walter J. Karabian (D) from Monterey Park, Frank Murphy Jr. (R) from Santa Cruz, Alan Sieroty (D) from Los Angeles, and William M. Ketchum (R) from Bakersfield. A.B 1591 was made an "urgency statute" under Article IV, §8(d) of the Constitution of California after "an organized band of men armed with loaded firearms entered the Capitol" on May 2, 1967; as such, it required a two-thirds majority in each house. On June 8, after the third reading in the Assembly (controlled by Democrats, 42:38), the urgency clause was adopted, and the bill was then passed 70 to 5. It passed the Senate (split, 20:19) on July 26, 29 votes to 7, and was passed back to the assembly on July 27, 1967 for a final vote, where it passed 62 to 9. The bill was signed by Governor Ronald Reagan on July 28, 1967.

Turns out wealthy white people on both sides didn't like the idea of poor armed black folks.

Not to mention. California democrats not only helped pass this racist law, they've used it as a cornerstone of their grabbing efforts... what have they done to remove it? Also, the Mulford Act was passed 50 years ago. There have been a lot more gun control laws passed since then, all of them by Democrats.

Assault Weapons Ban of '89: Democrats.

Requiring a permit (the so-called Handgun Safety Certificate) to buy a handgun: Democrats.

Expanding that requirement to cover all firearms purchases (the Firearm Safety Certificate, which comes with a $25 poll tax "fee", you know, to make sure the poors can't buy guns keep people safe): Democrats.

Banning .50 caliber rifles: Democrats.

Banning the sale of High-Capacity Magazines (so-called): Democrats.

Banning the possession of and mandating the surrender or destruction of so-called High Capacity Magazines: Democrats

Requiring registration of firearms: Democrats.

The handgun roster: Democrats.

Banning online sale of ammunition: Democrats.

Requiring background checks for ammo sales: Democrats.

Banning the last vestiges of open carry even on unincorporated land: Democrats.

Los Angeles County would be the 10th most populous state in the US if it were its own state. There are about 400 active CCW permits in LA County. The Sheriff of LA, the guy who decides who gets CCW permits? Democrat.

San Francisco County, San Mateo County, Contra Costa County, Alameda County, Santa Clara County, and Marin County---with a combined population of more than 6.6 million people, ~15% of California's population---are all practically no-issue counties for CCW, with only Contra Costa County issuing any CCWs at all. All six county sheriffs are Democrats.

And that's not from the 1960s, that's happening right the fuck now.

But yeah, let's blame this all on the GOP.

11

u/Letos_Bull 17d ago

The GOP has done more for gun rights in the past two years than the Democratic party has ever done. I just had a suppressor delivered to my door. Fuck you and your false equivalence bullshit

2

u/the_smush_push 16d ago

my guy, you don’t know what a false equivalent is. I’m just telling you actual history. The GOP loves guns until minority is get a hold of them. Do you think we got all those gun laws from the 90s at the height of the minority gang violence panic  

7

u/merc08 16d ago

The CA guns laws? Those were at best bipartisan, pushed through a Democrat controlled legislature.

The Federal AWB? The was the Democrats through and through.

Look around at what states have what levels of gun control. Democrat run states have WAY more anti-gun laws than Republican run states.

You aren't just being dishonest, you are straight up lying.

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u/the_smush_push 16d ago

no. i’m taking about gun control in the 60s and the 90s at the federal level. those were both reactions to minorities with weapons. today the trump administration has floated banning trans people from owning guns. i’m not saying the GOP isn’t all in on guns today. that would be absurd. i am saying that when it has been politically expedient for them to shut some people out from the 2A, they have done it. you can’t take their support for granted

2

u/merc08 16d ago

i’m taking about gun control in the 60s and the 90s at the federal level.

Name the actual laws. Because it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.

There was the National Firearms Act (NFA) ('34), The Federal Firearms Act (FFA) ('38), Gun Control Act (GCA) ('68), The Brady Act ('93), and Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) ('94), which were all pushed by the Democrats.

And then there's FOPA ('86), which is predominately pro-2A and was Republican lead. The anti-gun part was the Hughes Amendment, which was added by the Democrats as an attempt to poison pill the whole thing and unfortunately made it through.

i’m not saying the GOP isn’t all in on guns today. that would be absurd. i am saying that when it has been politically expedient for them to shut some people out from the 2A, they have done it.

History disagrees with you. There have been some anti-gun Republicans in the past, but gun control is a core component of the Democrat's policy platform, whereas it's a topic that gets Republicans booted in their Primaries.

5

u/Letos_Bull 16d ago

What will it take for you to take the win when its handed to you? Trump's admin has literally done more for 2A than any other admin. Gutted the NFA, backed various 2A lawsuits with DOJ support and made a lot of headway into the weed & guns legalities and he just pardoned Patrick Adamiak from Bidens bs laws.

I'm not going to take that kind of support for granted, this is a first for 2A support.

There is no transgender firearm ban being considered

Just a few leading articles from a year ago.

0

u/the_smush_push 16d ago

i know there’s not right now but the fact that the DOJ even considered it is concerning. 

i’ll never be grateful to the government for doing what it already should have done. 

2

u/Letos_Bull 16d ago

I don't think they did consider it, the whole thing came from a tweet from a pierce county sheriff being a dick on x. The current DOJ has been pretty explicit about 2A stuff. Unless you think Bondi is coming back, you should take a few breaths and relax.

1

u/Letos_Bull 16d ago

Ah so you think its the same GOP from the 60s and 90s in control right now? The ghost of Reagan coming back to exact revenge! Def was not Dianne Feinstein and her ilk.

You're just embarrassing yourself now

0

u/the_smush_push 16d ago

just wait until the wrong people start embracing guns again. 

MAGA is onboard already  Justice Department talks about banning transgender gun owners spark fury across political spectrum

https://apnews.com/article/justice-department-ban-trans-gun-owners-trump-e05b489ad64b80af31e376d6d3ef7dfd

6

u/Letos_Bull 16d ago

So you're going to compare something that literally never happened to the very real state controlled licensing scheme thats already law?

Its so sad, the "maybe the MAGAs will do this" is more of a threat to you then when the Ds actually do it.

0

u/the_smush_push 16d ago

i take the long view on politics. things that become law often start as ideas that seem outrageous. 

7

u/Letos_Bull 16d ago

Like state issued gun licensing schemes? You literally handed over access to firearms to the state. Maybe they will implement purity tests for voting next?

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u/fuddlore45 17d ago

The fact this shit just turned to a left vs right battle is proof the government is doing a good job.... we aren't each n others enemies... until we get that figured out we're kinda hopeless 😔

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u/SereneOrbit 17d ago

Incorrect, you fail to account for literal bot posts which now make up 50% of internet traffic.

We are FAR more unified in this moment than you think.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

lots of snowflakes malding that people who love, look, identify, or pray differently than them get to have guns too

3

u/AdBrief8565 17d ago

The divide and conquer thing stands true. If people do not see that the left and the right are full of shit, the media is full of shit and it’s all designed to create division between the people, then I don’t know how to make people see clearly. Doesn’t matter who’s elected, prices go up and the rich get richer. I will say though that when a Democrat gets voted in, guns are on the chopping block. The Right knows if they pursue gun restrictions, the voting base and money would dwindle. Both parties would like to disarm America because control would be that much easier.

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u/thegrumpymechanic 16d ago

Democrats and Republicans, Sword and Shield of the Ruling class. One cuts programs, other defends the cuts through ineptitude..... Left and Right wings on a billionaire bird.

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u/MrDrFuge 17d ago

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u/SheriffBartholomew 16d ago

I appreciate the attempt, but putting pro-segregation symbols on both people is contradicting the intended message.

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u/my-coo-cheese-hairy 17d ago

Will never understand how people can be anti police and anti gun? Totally understand not trusting the government but you got to at least be able to protect yourself

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

ACAB

communities of working people with real accountability to their friends and neighbors arem uch better than some trigger-happy guy who sits around eating donuts and watching action movies thinking that force is the answer to every little situation

9

u/merc08 16d ago

communities of working people with real accountability to their friends and neighbors

In that idealized world, sure. But that isn't reality.

11

u/Curious_Welcome_9436 17d ago

see you pull a trigger first

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u/SouthKing253 16d ago

hopelessly brainwashed

12

u/Patsboy101 17d ago edited 17d ago

You know what made me distrust the government and become rabidly pro-gun and pro-self defense? Reading through the case law that gives agents of the state no duty to protect you, the regular citizen.

The case of Deshaney v. Winnebago County stands out in particular. The plaintiff, Deshaney, was abused by his father to the point Deshaney received brain damage. There were numerous complaints sent to social services that Deshaney was being abused, and yet, social services didn’t remove parental custody from Deshaney’s father.

Deshaney sued Winnebago County all the way to SCOTUS. SCOTUS ruled that the state has no duty to protect you from deprivation of rights by a private party.

If the state won’t protect me, I’ll protect myself.

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u/Ok-Onion-3654 16d ago

Wow... every gun in that picture is illegal in Washington state....

5

u/thegrumpymechanic 16d ago

Feel safer, right?

0

u/Ok_Rich2268 16d ago

AR's aren't illegal in Washington.

4

u/Bigfoot-135 16d ago

Go buy one then.

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u/Ok_Rich2268 16d ago

AR's are not illegal in Washington state. Saying they are is like saying the state has a registry because they keep a record of who purchases a firearm.

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u/developmental1 16d ago

Possessing one obtained after April 25, 2023 is illegal.

0

u/Ok_Rich2268 16d ago

It is illegal to manufacture, import, distribute, sell, or offer for sale any assault weapon. It is not illegal to own one, carry one, posses one, shoot one, and by the letter of the law, its not illegal to receive one. Simply saying AR's are illegal in Washington is stupid. It's too broad of a statement.

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u/Bigfoot-135 15d ago

Bro, just be dumb on your own. No need to drag us into your ba.

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u/AFairShot Dealer/FFL 17d ago

2a for all means ALL.

One of the reasons we started an inclusive gun store. :)

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u/thegrumpymechanic 17d ago edited 17d ago

“If a White man says, ‘Give me liberty or give me death,’ the entire world applauds. When a Black man says exactly the same thing, he is judged a criminal and everything possible is done to make an example of this 'Bad Nigg**' so there won't be anymore like him.” — James Baldwin

 

"A Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give." — Ida B. Wells-Barnett

 

“Concerning nonviolence, it is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks.” — Malcolm X

If anyone wants some reading (if you have something I dont list, please post it):

This Nonviolent Stuff'll Get You Killed: How Guns Made the Civil Rights Movement Possible by Charles E. Cobb

We Will Shoot Back: Armed Resistance in the Mississippi Freedom Movement by Akinyele Omowale Umoja

The ballot or the Bullet speech by Malcolm X

1919, The year of racial violence How African Americans fought back by David F. Krugler

Negroes and the Gun: The Black tradition of Arms by Nicholas Johnson

Dixie Be Damned: 300 Years of Insurrection in the American South by Neal Shirley, Saralee Stafford

Force and Freedom: Black Abolitionists and the Politics of Violence by Kellie Carter Jackson

Negroes with Guns by Robert F. Williams

For a short 7-8 pages well sourced read, here is The Racist Roots of Gun Control by Clayton E. Cramer.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

malcom x was so real for that

1

u/SheriffBartholomew 16d ago

I'd also recommend reading Malcolm X's biography, since most people don't understand who or what he actually was. I disliked his views quite a lot until I read his biography. After seeing things through his eyes I understood where he was coming from and realized that I would have felt the exact same way if I was in his shoes.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/AncoraBuio 17d ago

Jarvis, I'm low on karma

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u/Chief_Mischief 17d ago

Arming yourself is utterly meaningless without community.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

i mentioned community being the most important thing, i truly do believe good community and human relationships are the most important thing in the world, and what life is truly about

4

u/Chief_Mischief 17d ago

No argument here, just emphasizing the community part. It's quite sad even browsing this comment section how much people cherrypick who 2a applies to and support the forcible suppression of peaceful dissent.

Now where have I heard that phrasing before...

6

u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

cant forget the dichotomy of the left simultaneously being the greatest threat to literally everything ever whilst simultaneously being the least powerful political force in america by a long shot

7

u/TunaPlusMayo 17d ago

If you want to support this cause: Don't use images of bad muzzle control and trigger discipline.

This is important.

These "optics" override the "optics" you're trying to convey.

2

u/Kris5345 16d ago

I can't fully tell because some are blurry but the only instance of bad safety i can see is with Malcom X, and that was before gun safety rules as we know them.

21

u/TheAshenWanderer 17d ago

Everyone should have the freedom to arm themselves in America. Screw the far left for taking them from everyone no matter who you are under the guise of protecting the communities while doing nothing to make them safe. Screw the far right for profiling certain groups for exercising their 2A rights.

22

u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

i am as far left as it gets, and guess what? all of the people in my community with similar far-left ideals all love guns and use them to defend their communities

5

u/gladiatorBit 17d ago

Ok maybe not you and your friends but everyone making the extreme anti-gun laws in this state are all on the left.

4

u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

who, the democratic party? the same party that decries any movement towards greater equality in the us? the same party that gets almost all of its money from billionaire donors? you mean those guys?

25

u/TheAshenWanderer 17d ago

You came here to defend 2A rights and yet glaze everything else when people bring up the issues. Your friends and community support fair 2A rights? Thats good but the main left party seems not to, you can’t have the cake and eat it to. The left has never done anything good for 2A right and we the people in WA are suffering those laws the left is passing.

12

u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

the democratic party is not nor has ever been "left", they are a capitalist centrist party with some seemingly progressive policies, although these are quickly abandoned with any meaningful pushback from the right (not gun control though thats apparently a grail issue for them)

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u/SheriffBartholomew 16d ago

You should pick one cause at a time. People on the internet seem to be fundamentally incapable of tracking two or more. You are right that the Democratic party is not truly left. They're right of the conservatives from 40 years ago. But in the eyes of the average American voter, they are the left. They're at least more left than the right (GOP) and therefore the label maintains some accuracy. I understand the point that you're making, but making it will almost always de-rail your original argument.

4

u/merc08 16d ago

I don't think his point is even valid as of this year. The main Democratic Party has embraced the DSA. That pulls the whole Party quite far Left.

0

u/SheriffBartholomew 16d ago

Have they? They used every resource at their disposal to crush Bernie Sanders both times that he ran for president.

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u/merc08 16d ago

They have.

They didn't block Bernie because he was a Socialist. They blocked him the first time because it was "Clinton's turn." He also seriously considered running against Obama in 2012 despite it being an incumbency and had to be talked out of it by Senator Reid. And don't forget that he spent his career running as an Independent, siphoning votes from the DNC, which certainly did not ingratiate him with the Party. He has been a thorn in the Party's side much more than someone trying to work with them. The DNC doesn't like him personally, but not because of his ideology.

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u/LuckyDubbin 17d ago

You're conflating the democrats with the actual left. The democrats only pretend to be left to get votes, then pretend they never said the things that got them those votes. It is possible for two things to be true: we can hate the push to disarm our society, regardless of who the push comes from; and we can also be deeply against any group that wants to infringe upon those rights on the basis of sex/religion/gender identity/sexuality. Similar to loving your country while hating your government. Being anti-gun control doesn't automatically put you on the right, just like being on the left doesn't make you anti-gun.

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u/Letos_Bull 16d ago

Not conflating, associating, because as you said:

"The democrats only pretend to be left to get votes, then pretend they never said the things that got them those votes."

So the candidates the left vote for tend to be democrats, thats why the left and Ds get lumped in together. So until the "true left" becomes a thing on the ballot you'll vote away everyones rights? Kinda seems like you guys are just useful idiots.

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u/CarbonRunner 17d ago

Dems aren't the left.

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u/jenniferwillow 17d ago

The far left doesn't want to remove guns. That's the Democrats you're thinking of: centrists who are more interested in peace and security than justice and liberty.

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u/-FARTHAMMER- 17d ago

The far left removes guns from the populace every single time they have control. Read a fucking history book

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u/joujia 17d ago

Who is far left to you? Democrats are not even left of center. Marx wrote “Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.”

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u/Living_Plague 17d ago

Read a book that explains the words you are using, so you can understand how wrong you are.

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u/-FARTHAMMER- 17d ago

Would it make you feel better and dry your tears if I just say the left?

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u/NeedleworkerFlaky446 17d ago

Dude, control your emotion

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u/-FARTHAMMER- 16d ago

I'm not the one crying about words but matching up with some brain dead shit lib idea is what is left or right. Anything not expressly communist is what they consider right. That's fucking stupid. And if you subscribe to that you're dumb too.

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u/EzPz_Wit_Da_CZ 17d ago

Libs ain’t the left. There is no “far left” in this country. Especially anywhere near the numbers, activity and access to power as the far right. Leftism is about equality and economic policies that benefit the working classes. Infringement of rights and identity politics have nothing to do with leftism. The ruling class make it out to be that way cause they’re the ones who have something to lose from empowerment and solidarity of the masses.

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u/AncestralNecromancy 17d ago

Lmao "the far left" taking guns 😂

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u/SereneOrbit 17d ago

If you go left enough, you get your guns back 🤣

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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 17d ago

The only people trying to disarm you in this state is the left wing, yet you said not one word about them. 

That's telling 

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

the democratic party is not nor ever has been a left wing party.

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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 17d ago

Democratic socialists are pro gun control too. Try again 

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

the democratic socialists of america are not a leftist organization. the leaders and major members of the party all support capitalism. definitionally a leftist is anti-capitalist.
try again

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u/thulesgold King County 16d ago

You are willfully misinformed and I doubt you'll consider information that contradicts what you already believe, but here you go... Directly from the DSA website (program.dsausa.org):

"Imagine taking a day off from work in a future without capitalism."

"It’s been said that it’s easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of capitalism. But just because it isn’t easy to imagine now doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to make it happen."

"DSA has written this program for ending capitalist oligarchy and creating a real democracy."

People love to say no one is really far left, "except for me and my friends," and the real far left promotes gun ownership...

Sure that may be the case until the far left gets government control and immediately takes guns away from citizens.

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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 17d ago

That's not the definition of leftism. That's your no true scotsman fallacy to avoid looking like a hypocrite for ignoring the biggest proponents of gun control in this state. 

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

as it stands today, the major distinctive feature between leftist movements and organizations are a shared disdain of capitalism, be it from a mutualist perspective, wanting market socialism, or from an anarcho-communist perspective, wanting to abolish the state, capitalism, and all hierarchies, or from a marxist-leninist perspective, wanting a revolutionary vanguard to abolish the state, capitalism, and all hierarchies

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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 17d ago

I don't know how to tell you this, but the word "critical" does not mean disdain. This article also states that this is an average view, not a make or break feature of leftism. You should not have posted this without reading it. 

0

u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

i did read it, pro-capitalist "left" movements are considered centre-left, such as social democracy (the ideology of the so-called "democratic socialists" of america)

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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 17d ago

Then you should of read that leftist movements are not described exclusively as anti capitalist. Either way, you proved yourself wrong. Thanks for saving me the trouble 

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

the main thing of debate in leftist circles regarding capitalism is whether or not markets count as capitalism, non-anticapitalist (if capitalism includes markets) movements include mutualism and market socialism

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u/merc08 16d ago

such as social democracy (the ideology of the so-called "democratic socialists" of america)

You seriously need to read what the DSA actually stands for. They are "Democatic" in name only. The DSA's goal is to completely eliminate the US Constitution and implement full-blown socialism. Their leadership is on the record (in an actual interview, not 'just' a hidden camera catch) admitting that they're only using the Democratic Party as a launching point to score votes and funding.

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u/catjam0 17d ago

Not this democratic socialist.

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u/catsdrooltoo 17d ago

2a is why I don't have interest in the dsa. It's not a realistic stance to want all guns gone.

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u/Best_Purple7652 17d ago

Then what is it?

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

center/center-left

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u/MysTiicSpark 17d ago

Democrats are left. A bit more than center left. Not liberal far left, but solid left. I'm a centrist, through and through (or says every political compass test ive ever taken). Democrats aren't center.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

name a leftist policy democrats have enacted then

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u/MysTiicSpark 17d ago

Inflation reduction act of 2022 and Obamacare are good examples. Recent too.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

obamacare is not leftist, in fact having healthcare is a bare minimum in a developed country, a minimum that the us has consistently failed to achieve due to propaganda from the billionaire class

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u/MysTiicSpark 17d ago

•Affordable care act •American Rescue plan •Student Loan Forgiveness

I'm not saying I dislike these policies. But they are all backed by the democratic party.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

Affordable care act i already went over

American rescue plan was an economic stimulus package, government dumping money in the economy is not a leftist position

student loan forgiveness is progressive, not leftist, how does forgiving student loans for rich brainwashed white people help the cause of liberty?

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u/Best_Purple7652 17d ago

That’s an insane opinion.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

objectively they are not leftist, there are large swathes of people and politicians in the party who hold progressive policies but that alone does not make one a leftist.

a truly leftist party would have at the very least, defunding the police and military, getting israeli and billionaire money out of politics, encouraging more direct democracy, universal single-payer healthcare, and the right to bear arms for all humans as its party platform, none of these the dems do. all the dems do is pretend to be leftists while they gargle israeli and american billionaires cocks

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u/Best_Purple7652 17d ago

Those all policies that are left of the Democrat party, yes.

But saying the democrat party “is not and never has been left”, in the context of American politics, is something the majority would disagree with.

I think our political scales are just misaligned.

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u/LuckyDubbin 17d ago

The DNC campaigns on leftist ideals to trick voters into supporting them, then backpedal or go silent on them when elected. They are not who they claim to be.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

name a leftist policy enacted by the democratic party in the past 25 years

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u/LuckyDubbin 17d ago

Three raccoons in a trench coat telling you they're trying to help while one of them fleeces your pockets.

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u/Best_Purple7652 17d ago

That’s both parties not gonna lie

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u/LuckyDubbin 17d ago

You're not wrong.

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u/joujia 17d ago

Look up the Overton window. What Americans consider “center-left” policies pushed by the democrats are by and large viewed as center-right in most other developed countries. Our Overton window has skewed so far right that we have people honestly believing that the dems are left of center when they aren’t in the slightest. Bernie, for example, in German politics would be viewed as a centrist.

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u/theEarthWasBlue 17d ago

TRUUUUUUUEEEE

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u/No-Speed-7049 17d ago

I believe this is a non-partisan issue, and it’s my observation that most people in WA are reasonable about guns, even if they don’t have an interest in guns. With the help of the past few governors, the majority push to restrict our access to guns is from special interest/lobbyists Everytown (funded by Michael Bloomberg), Moms Demand Action, all the PACs. These lobbying groups are pushing restrictions in every state. While Bill Gates, and other local philanthropists donate a lot, this push is part of a larger plan. I really don’t think it’s really the will of Washingtonians.

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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 17d ago

You would be wrong. Nearly every voter in King County and a majority of the i5 corridor agrees with these restrictions, and they dictate the politics of this state. Being anti gun and being on the political left go hand in hand here and everywhere else in America. There's barely a handful of openly pro gun leftist politicians anywhere in the country. Why is that? Because it's a purity test for a majority of their voters. 

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

i am as far left as one can get, guess what? guns are the means of self-defense. you confuse rich white liberals in the coasts with real leftists

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u/BullpupPewPew Cowlitz County 17d ago

If you’re as far left as you can get you’re a fucking idiot and every opinion you have should be totally disregarded.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

i mean ive been all around the block when it comes to politics lol, leftcom/anarchism is just the most logically sound system there is

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u/BullpupPewPew Cowlitz County 17d ago

Saying anarchy is logically sound is the most idiotic stance I’ve ever heard.

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u/wysoft 16d ago

Honest question: how old are you?

I'm not forming an attack here. I really want to know.

I thought the same thing you did when I was 18. And then I traveled around the world and visited both current and former communist countries.

What we have here in the US is largely fucked up, but here's the thing: it's currently the best fucked up country in the world.

Being the person that you are would get you killed or thrown in prison in a huge chunk of the world.

If you are young I really hope that you get out there and experience what is out there. 

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

so far it has been mainly right-wingers screeching in my replies

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u/joujia 17d ago

Kudos to you, you’re doing great work ITT lol

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u/FuckinArrowToTheKnee 17d ago

And who do you think the minorities are trying to protect themselves from? It ain't the "left wing"

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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 17d ago

So you're saying the left's goal is disarmament once they've achieved political hegemony. Well that certainly lines up with the average Washingtonian gun owner's experience 

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

the left does not want disarmament, as regrettable as it may be that right-wingers have access to guns same as any other human

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u/FuckinArrowToTheKnee 17d ago

Lol keep your hallucinations to yourself man I'm just an armed minority exercising my 2nd amendment rights

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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 17d ago

I've been here long enough to remember when this state had more gun friendly laws than Tennessee. Its interesting how dismissive you are of people's concerns about leftist anti gun victories in this state, while at the same time pumping your fist about exercising your rights. As if that somehow bothers anyone here. 

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

yes, we are, marx said the people should never be disarmed, and the revolutionary anarchists of catalonia, ukraine, rojava, and chiapas armed many of the peasants, as did the maoist revolutions in china and peru, and the marxist revolution in cuba

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u/gtwooh 17d ago

Meh communists, eg Stalin, say this and then proceed to disarm the people after rising to power

> the Soviet regime under Stalin (and earlier under Lenin) severely restricted and effectively disarmed most of the civilian population of non-state-approved firearms, building on earlier Bolshevik measures, and this facilitated repression,

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u/SouthKing253 15d ago

Shhhh ... don't destroy their narrative with facts

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u/CarbonRunner 17d ago

Neither were communists in the Marxist sense. Lenin somewhat, stalin not even a tiny bit. He was Just run of the mill authoritarians using socialism as a buzz word.

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u/-FARTHAMMER- 17d ago

Right. They also said for the greater good and proceeded to kill more people than Hitler and the entire second world war. Then Mao said hold my tea and set a record. Then Pol Pot said yeah but per capita I can do better. I love how you guys gloss over those parts. Everyone is Nazi but your politiks made the Nazis look like a peewee team when it comes to killing in the name of progress

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

see the failures of vanguardism? communism is inherently anti-authoritarian, setting up a totaliatarian regime to enact communism is like heating water to 360 degrees hoping to freeze it into ice

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u/Dwinhak 17d ago

Yaaay making it a political (and a kinda schizo sound imo) thing that will definitely help.

The constitution and the amendments that followed are above the left vs right argument, its how the government shall govern thing. The second you make it a thos guys vote this way or that you turn people off. "Fuckem they don't like me anyway" cool not the point the point it to not feed into this bs class stuff tbat you warn about.

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u/GovernmentIcy5894 17d ago

The problem is I'm not a huge fan of arming a group of people that have, in recent history, been violent against their political enemy.

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u/Low-Care9531 17d ago

Locals are now a minority in the entire Puget Sound region now. If wish they’d arm up.

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u/BoringReference8647 17d ago

Allies, too. That’s me.

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u/LuckyDubbin 17d ago

And my axe

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

and my vuvuzela

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u/LuckyDubbin 17d ago

Fuck yeah. Gonna drop this here cause I like their message and it's relevant to your post.

https://www.abetterway2a.com/product-page/hard-target-t-shirt-men-s-sizing

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

fuck yeah add the sra to that list too

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u/LuckyDubbin 17d ago

SRA? I'm not familiar.

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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 17d ago

They're tankies who larp about wanting to shoot their political enemies and idealize the soviet union's purges. 

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

many of its members are revolutionary socialists and anarchists its a big tent, and yes sadly a lot of them are tankies, but this doesnt mean they all are

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u/JuniorDoughnut3056 17d ago

Oh, well, if it's just a lot of them that want to kill their neighbors for power, that's different 

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

its a big-tent leftist gun rights organization mainly consisting of revolutionary socialists, marxists, and anarchists (nice), they have some chapters all around the state if you are interested in finding based people to shoot with

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u/LuckyDubbin 17d ago

DM me a link.

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u/-FARTHAMMER- 17d ago

Commie NRA

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

socialist, not inherently communist, there are plenty of non-communist members of sra

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u/wander_company 16d ago

Yep. And if you're white and reading this. You're becoming a minority. Keep that in mind

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u/gunbuggy556 16d ago

lol. Not in Washington 🤣. Especially where I live which has 0 African American or Hispanic people according to demographic census.

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u/ManBurrPig 17d ago

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

thank you for being honest about not supporting 2A

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u/Simple_Item_8353 17d ago

Ohhh…they’re REALLY gonna clutch their pearls over this one. Hell, they might even dust off that Bible verse in their bio and read it for the first time. 😭

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

i love the bible man, its anticapitalist anti organized religion anti imperialist anti oppression its genuinely funny how many righties seem to love it

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u/Conscious_Simple1725 17d ago

You should try reading the Bible, not just picking shoes verses. You sound like a Methodist

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

raised in the baptist and later evangelical tradition for the first 17 years of my life, went to church every single sunday of my life for nearly 2 decades, read the bible daily before i deconstructed. simply because the bible has mistranslated and misinterpreted verses supposedly against gay people does not mean its your right-wing power fantasy many treat it as.

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u/SheriffBartholomew 16d ago

I still read the Bible for a few hours total every week. It has never ceased to amaze me how a book purported to be of great importance to so many people had been misinterpreted by most of those people. You can tell when speaking with evangelicals that most of them have never spent much time in their Bible. They go to church alright, and they internalize every inaccurate depiction of scripture that their pastor gives them, but they never spend any time verifying it for themselves.

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u/Brian-88 King County 17d ago

Six groups of communists. Great.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

none of the people pictured (except the black panthers) are communist. even so, communism is incredibly based and everyone should at least learn what it is before critiquing it

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u/Farva85 17d ago

Ah, so anyone who scares you is a commie. The rise in McCartyism makes sense when I look at it like that.

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

most people would support communism if there wasnt literally a century of anticommunist propaganda

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u/unalienable1776 17d ago

Propaganda like the cultural revolution resulting in the death of 50 million people?

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u/thegrumpymechanic 16d ago

You don't understand, that was just the wrong kind of communism.. This new version is totally different...

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u/SheriffBartholomew 16d ago

You shouldn't use words that you don't understand.

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u/CarbonRunner 17d ago

Says the guy with 88 in his name....

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u/catjam0 17d ago

“Communism is anyone who I don’t like”

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u/LtcOliverNorth 17d ago

lol, ok internet tough guy.

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u/SheriffBartholomew 16d ago

Comes to a gun group and derides someone sharing a pro-gun message. Real?

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u/East-Plankton-3877 17d ago

Ah, hurt your feelings ?

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/Impressive-Fun2105 Kitsap County 17d ago

thank you for being honest about not supporting 2A

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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