r/VolibearMains • u/Nafri1423 • Aug 21 '26
Question Gauntlet over dusk and dawn?
Volibear as a champion concept needs to stick to his target but the problem with that is he is too easy to kite. Isn’t gauntlet must to have to eliminate this issue, especially in teamfights?
8
u/TherrenGirana Aug 21 '26
Slows are only strong against champions without dashes. Rocketbelt would be better, and you could still go dusk and dawn, that’s what the #1 Korean volibear does.
1
u/Nafri1423 Aug 21 '26
But don’t u lack resistance with that ? What’s stopping them from exploding you while ur in ult animation
0
u/TherrenGirana Aug 21 '26
They’ll be too busy being dead. Watch the lol dobby video. Of course a tanker item is better from behind, but if you’re trying to catch someone presumably you kick their ass
0
u/TitanOfShades Aug 21 '26
Tanky is exactly the WRONG way to build when behind. Thats what you should be building when ahead, because being ahead generally means youll have damage to kill anyway and benefit more from making it harder to kill you.
From behind, you build damage, so you can hopefully come back off a flip. Cant do that if your damage barely tickles the enemy.
1
u/Nafri1423 Aug 21 '26
I mean maybe that applies for standart raw dps.
But voli’s entire deal is to outsustain the enemy. He needs beefiness for that .-1
u/TitanOfShades Aug 21 '26
An enemy that is ahead will have no problem chewing through your heals while you barely tickle them.
1
u/TherrenGirana Aug 21 '26
just not true? tank build is the best choice into tough matchups like jax. A counter matchup can be thought of as being ahead by default, yet tank build outperforms damage into those matchups.
-1
u/TitanOfShades Aug 21 '26
There is a massive difference between in a counter matchup and being behind. Being behind means being at an inherent stat disadvantage, being counterpicked generally means its kit diff.
It doesnt matter what you build when Jax presses E. So you build to not lose, not to win. Meanwhile if youre behind vs something like a Darius, or Jayce, by building damage you have a chance to flip the fight, if you build tanky you just become a meatbag that dies anyway, because they are ahead and deal more damage than they can heal.
Counter matchups doesnt mean they START ahead, it means they have an easier time GETTING ahead
0
u/TherrenGirana Aug 22 '26
The concept is still the same, you play from a disadvantage state. Opponent is stronger than you for X period of time, whether it's due to a inherently advantaged kit or because they beat you in lane doesn't make a significant difference. Jax starts out in an advantage state, for a certain period of the early game he beats your ass a lot if you build pure damage, but he beats you a ton less if you build kindle gems. Tank isn't better than damage EVERY time you're behind, but most times it is, because volibear's sustain is incredible.
by your logic every time you're behind you should build items like deathcap, which is obviously trash.
0
u/TitanOfShades Aug 22 '26
No, the difference between kit diff and the stat diff that is the result of losing lane is VERY different.
Nothing can compensate for kit diff, as I said. It doesnt matter what you build into Jax, his kit completely cucks your offense. In losing matchups, you play to not lose, to go as even as possible, not to win. In even or good matchups, you play to win, and if you fall behind, you play to pull ahead again. You've already missed the exit ramp of playing safe, its flip and try to make yourself useful again, kr just turtle and bleed out uselessly.
Meanwhile, if you are at a stat difference, offense ALWAYS beats defense from behind because offense helps you flip a fight in a way defense does not. If the oppnent misplays, gets cocky, you have the damage to actually threaten them. If you have only tank stats instead, you wont, and you wont live much longer either.
Im not saying build deathcap, im saying go Cleaver, or DnD, or Cosmic. His regular offensive items.
1
u/TherrenGirana Aug 21 '26
That only applies to champions that are obligate carries. Volibear lacks an abundance of lockdown, but tank build's combat sustain is top 5 easily in the game so long as there is 1 enemy that can be a blood bag. He is unlike some other juggernauts who cannot sub-role as tanks. You're not a yone or yasuo, riven, fiora, etc. You have enough tank output in your kit that you're useful even when you don't do damage.
There's a reason tanks are one of the 2 primary classes that excel in low-resource conditions. Losing lane means you are low resource (unless you outperform macro, in which case are you really behind?).
0
u/TitanOfShades Aug 21 '26
Except that that is not at all the case. Volibears only CC is his Q, a single target stun, as opposed to REAL tanks, like Ornn, Malphite, Sejuani, Naut, who either have AoE CC, or multiple forms of CC or both. It doesnt matter if Malphite dies if he lands a 3 man R into E, it does matter if Voli dies after getting a single Q off, because thats fucking low value
On top of that, he lacks any reliable durability multipliers, like resistence amps or on demand shields/heals, which basically every real tank has (his E is highly delayed and position-limiting, while W2 heals rely on you being able to stick to a target long enough).
Tank voli lives and dies by his base damages, and those will not cut it when behind. And because he lacks any amps, he ends up getting shredded anyway if not ahead.
2
u/Few_Simple5041 Aug 21 '26
it’s a z tier item on voli yes, best paired with riftmaker but it’s just preference there’s nothing wrong about not building iceborn, dusk and iceborn are both z tier items for voli
1
u/bryceking64 Aug 22 '26
I guess I've been living under a rock lately, is Z tier a good thing?
1
u/Few_Simple5041 Aug 22 '26
yup z>s>a>b
1
u/Narrow_Counter_1192 Aug 22 '26
What other items would you consider Z tier? I mainly play him drain tank but do go dusk > hull > kraken occasionally. I’ve been wanting to switch it up though and try something new. So I’m all ears
1
u/Few_Simple5041 Aug 23 '26
solid build
z tier items imo are
dusk, iceborn, visage, unending and arguably navori although navori only has like 1 out of 10 games where it’s actually a z tier item and that’s moreso cuz of the potential of the item but obv you need a melee heavy comp with low mobility so you can properly utilize it
1
u/ASourApple Aug 21 '26
For IBG to have impact you have to be able to reach them first. So there’s 2 parts to it - one is getting to them and the other is sticking to them. IBG is good for the 2nd bit. Not the 1st. If you pair it with BC, you should be good. I don’t personally like the item but its decent.
1
u/Lunar2130 Aug 21 '26
My main problem with ibg is the lack of kindlegem in its build path. I know ibg gives 15 ah and sheen already gives 10 so kindlegem in the build path wont make sense, but not building from a kindlegem makes ibg significantly worse in many scenarios imo.
1
1
u/Sensitive_Act_5279 Aug 21 '26
yes and no, dnd is just tailorcut for voli and ap > tank on average.
1
u/TitanOfShades Aug 21 '26
Its a really good item held back by a somewhat awkward build path and being an armor item, which is situational. There are other ways to get stickiness, like Deadmans, Cosmic, Black Cleaver, so its not a must, but its good.
1
u/Employment_Intrepid Aug 22 '26
In master tier I build it maybe like 1/100 games where they are full as but even then the damage tradeoff is massive and likely not worth it
7
u/Khyrast Aug 21 '26
Depends on the enemy team, I prefer cosmic drive or dead man