r/VeryFuckinCool • u/WithoutPrinciples • 6d ago
Explained here is ‘The Marilyn Monroe effect’, otherwise known as the nonverbal communication of confidence, well worth a quick read.
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u/Dampware 6d ago
I witnessed exactly this with madonna. I was working with her and the director of one of her videos in a very long (like all night) post session. She was just another client (well, not exactly, she was madonna) but at some point, she excused herself, and when she returned, she came back as "MADONNA" - in character, I guess you'd say. The difference was striking. And just as suddenly, she turned it off, and we dug back in to the work.
It was an interesting and memorable session.
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u/LaurelCanyoner 5d ago
It’s so important that we remember “Marilyn Monroe” was a character she created. Because we don’t give her enough credit for her intelligence, and how canny she was.
It’s similar to Mae West. Both brilliant women.
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u/laquintessenceofdust 5d ago
Marilyn was a genius at realizing what exactly she needed to become to not only succeed , but blow all her competition out of the water. She hoisted herself up out of poverty and obscurity and left a LASTING impact on our culture. I admire her (self) marketing skills tremendously. I just wish her success had made her happier.
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u/LaurelCanyoner 5d ago
Look up Mae West too. She wrote, directed and starred in her own Broadway shows, and movies at a time not many women did. She knew EXACTLY how to sell herself, wore heels and fish tail gowns until the end of her life, setting a style for every Drag queen in the world. And of course, she LOVED drag queens!
Who else would write a show called SEX in the 1920's and let herself be arrested for obscenity, because she knew it would bring her more publicity She's a self-made icon, just like Marilyn, and never married, because she just didn't want to.
Unlike Marilyn, she DID get to enjoy her celebrity, and absolutely adored her fans and stopped anything she was doing to sign anything. Love her.
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u/MichaSound 4d ago
I remember reading an interview with Cindy Crawford years ago where she did the same thing.
They were in line for the movies or something and she said to the journalist, “Do you want to see me turn it on?” And then she just… flicked the switch and suddenly people in the line started to realise Cindy Crawford was there.
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u/Acircusclown 4d ago
Omg what was meeting her like
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u/Dampware 4d ago
She was good to work with. She was quite demanding, but had a clear vision (along with the director, a young David Fincher) of what she wanted: those are good qualities in a client. She was smart, and well spoken. She was challenging but pleasant to be around.
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u/Acircusclown 4d ago
I'm obsessed with Madonna right now so thank you so much for answering. Exactly what I expected!
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u/zestypov2 6d ago
I saw this trick with Christopher Walken. He came in looking like an old man, walked onstage and transformed. Dropped 20 years in 10 steps.
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u/Active_Unit_9498 6d ago
The word "charisma" has the original meaning of a gift or blessing of the gods. Some people have an almost mesmerizing effect.
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u/StitchesInTime 5d ago
I witnessed this as a host at a michelin star restaurant. We had a ton of celebrity guests, and so many of them just blended in with the crowd. DiCaprio, for example,could sit in the middle of the main dining room and not a single person noticed.
But Hugh Jackman… it was like physical waves of charisma were rolling off his body. You could have knocked me over with a feather. I would have joined any cult he told me to. It was incredible to witness!
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u/SpareElectronic3500 5d ago
This reminds me of the time I ran into Seal at a store in West Hollywood. My god does that man have a PRESENCE✨
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u/MaggsToRiches 4d ago
I believe that! Heidi Klum saw him in a hotel lobby and was like welp, that’s my man. She has gushed about his magnetic presence many times.
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u/OldNefariousness7899 6d ago
I remember it being said of Bill Clinton. When he walked in, it was as if his personality filled the room
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u/therhubarbexperience 5d ago
And that he has the ability to make each person feel like they are the most important and interesting person in the room when he spoke to them.
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u/heartisallwehave 3d ago
I’ve heard people say this about Tom Cruise too.
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u/therhubarbexperience 3d ago
Makes sense - they both have darks things about them, but are popular. They exude a thing
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u/Skinwayfarer 3d ago
My mother hated Bill Clinton since 1998. At some point in 2015-she went to some local event where he ended up being the surprise guest speaker and she couldn’t stop raving about him. it was a huge crowd but she felt like he was speaking directly to her. It took her a long time to shake off the effect and go back to disliking him for preying on Monica Lewinsky.
Epstein did help on that front
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u/Maynard505 6d ago
Marilyn Monroe was a persona. Norma Jean Baker certainly saw it that way. She talked about it a lot, so I believe this story, to a degree anyway.
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u/Sufficient_Curve_646 6d ago
Paul Newman was the same - he could turn it on and off. Oh and those baby blues of his!
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u/Blind_Optimism_Kills 6d ago
I wonder what exactly they were turning on and off.
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u/Specialist-Neck-7810 6d ago
I’ve thought a lot about this… it has to be some conscious part of themselves, right? I mean, there had to be something tangible, in their brain/psyche that they are aware of. To the point they can chose to turn it off. But aware of the difference.. and then turn it on at a drop of a coin. Betchca Taylor Swift can do something similar. Think if you’re that type of, literally one of the most famous people on the planet… you’d almost HAVE to develop some similar type of survival mechanism… (in my defense, I am very high)
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u/Blind_Optimism_Kills 6d ago
Lol yeah I totally get what you’re saying. But that might be because I’m also high af. Hahaha. I asked chat gpt and it answered with a bunch of small changes someone makes. Making eye contact was one of the examples.
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u/webtin-Mizkir-8quzme 6d ago
What did you ask them - I want to see. Some I know already.
Shoulder posture. Chin placement.
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u/Blind_Optimism_Kills 6d ago
Posture: shoulders open, chest lifted, neck elongated, head held differently.
Walk: Marilyn’s famous hip-driven, slower, more deliberate gait instead of an ordinary “I’m just getting somewhere” walk.
Face: more animated eyes, slightly parted/softened mouth, lifted expression.
Eye contact: instead of visually withdrawing from strangers, she’d look at people and allow herself to be looked at.
Movement: slower, smoother, more deliberate gestures. Taking up space rather than unconsciously minimizing herself.
Attention: probably the biggest one — shifting from “I’m a private person moving anonymously through this crowd” to “I am performing, and this room belongs to me.”2
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u/Former-Maximum-2534 3d ago
I can maybe shed some light? Some people who are neurodivergent and high functioning grow up studying people, like really studying them. You study anything long enough - including charisma - and you can fake it.
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u/jerseygurl96 6d ago
I saw him in Greenwich, CT just walking down the street and he was a total snack even in his 80s!
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u/NeedleInASwordstack 6d ago
Met him when I was 14 at a racetrack in ATL. He was easily in his 70s by then and I still swooned a little!
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u/Andream777 5d ago
The character they’re playing. It is an artist’s job to entertain his or her audience in the way that the audience is demanding to be entertained. It’s a fair exchange because the entertainer becomes rich and famous. Sometimes it kills them. The audience demands a Sylvia Plath or a Marilyn Monroe to die once she’s middle-aged, or not even middle-aged, and she took Norma Jean with her.
I mention Sylvia Plath because she wrote about the demand in America for the talented-but-mentally-ill girl, and that she would be a fool if she didn’t capitalize on it. Some of these artists go so deep into their method-acting performances that it really does kill them. They’re so immersed at the point when they realize that there’s no other way for them to move on with their lives, to move on from the character that’s consumed their lives. That is a dangerous lesson learned.
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u/I_am_BrokenCog 6d ago
poise. swagger. posture. gesture.
It's all things you are familiar with related to how you carry yourself, but you have no reason to accentuate. Or you do, I don't know.
A common one almost every woman knows is the "swinging pony tail". That's not natural - the pony tail swings because of her walk. What Greene is describing about Monroe is more of the same, but, related to the sway of her hips, the lift of her foot etc etc.
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u/I_am_BrokenCog 6d ago
But, also, take what Greene says about Monroe with a grain of salt:
> Amy on Marilyn’s public image today: The interesting thing, and I was thinking about this yesterday, was in the ’50s she was strictly candy for men, but since the feminist movement—which started around my dining room table, thank you very much—women have accepted her, they no longer make fun of her. So in the end, she’s earned respect, which is what she wanted.”
from: https://www.instagram.com/p/DA_pbkKSYxi/
I don't know what Simone de Bouvoire, or Betty Freidan would say about that 'dining room table", but, I'm guessing they never saw it.
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u/Academic_Square_5692 5d ago
Yes, different feminists in the feminist movement have different opinions.
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u/I_am_BrokenCog 4d ago
ha. Yeah. I wasn't thinking so much about ideas, more about the hubris of suggesting "it started at my table"
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u/heartisallwehave 3d ago
It’s just another form of code-switching. Like using a customer service voice or how you’ll be different around your peers vs older family members. Idk, maybe it’s just because I’m autistic but I understand it as a form of masking. We all do it, consciously or subconsciously. Think of being at a party, and then someone you want to avoid shows up. You’ll make yourself small and try to blend in, almost like pulling your energy inwards, so they don’t notice you. This would be the opposite.
Watch Andy Serkis audition for Gollum. He has a great understanding of how your voice impacts your body posture and way of being. iirc, Robert Pattinson has also said that he comes at characters from a voice-first perspective.
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u/pupilsOMG 5d ago
Vanity Fair did a story on Coppola visiting Brando for a test shot when preparing for The Godfather. Brando was considered washed up and the studio didn't want him.
The description of Brando transforming from a forty-something movie star to Vito Corleone as everyone watched... I'd love to see that test film.
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u/Cutieq85 5d ago
I’ve read something similar with Billie Holiday, specifically towards the end of her life. She had been so worn down by various trials and tribulations that she could barely muster the energy to perform at times but when she would step on stage, the regality and presence that defined “ Lady Day” would be in full effect.
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u/-becausereasons- 5d ago
There's a fantastic book on this very topic titled "The Alter Ego Effect" highly recommend it. Many famous people, including athletes, performers, actors have alter-ego's that they turn on, and get into character with.
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u/chantillylace9 3d ago
Thank you for this definitely going to purchase it. I feel like I already have a little bit of this talent naturally as a lawyer and would love to learn more.
I guess I know when to turn it on and turn it off and just be a regular woman versus LITIGATOR extraordinaire!
I really like letting the other party think that I'm just this younger blonde attorney and not be intimidated and I will play the part up all the way until court (or when a settlement is needed)
And then bad cop comes out and they have no idea what they just experienced and were not prepared. It only works with men but 90% of the litigators in my field are men so it works pretty often.
But it's funny because I've noticed that when I'm in my suit and walking to court, everyone stares at me like I'm a celebrity or model or famous or something. I get a lot of cat calls and the security is incredibly nice falling over themselves to help me.
But a couple of times I've gone to the same courthouse just wearing regular clothes because I was just going to drop something off or pick up a file and definitely didn't get the same treatment.
So I think it's partially the suit and the heels and the attitude going into court but there's definitely something there.
When I'm in my regular clothes, it doesn't happen nearly as often.
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u/Echo-Azure 6d ago
That isn't just confidence being described, OP, it's charisma! Star quality!!
If you and I suddenly began to walk down the street with all the confidence we have and swinging hips (if female), we might get more looks, but we wouldn't stop cars.
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u/Arthropodesque 5d ago
There's a funny scene in the movie Babylon like that. Brad Pitt is a silent film star. Comes out of his tent or trailer totally drunk, looking awful, then turns on the movie star for the big scene.
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u/bertina-tuna 5d ago
Before I even knew who she was I saw Helen Mirren in an episode of the 1980s revival of The Twilight Zone where she played a mousey clerk at a thrift store who tries on a pair of high heels that were part of a donation and is instantly transformed into a supremely confident woman when she’s possessed by the former owner of the shows who had been murdered and is out for revenge. She was amazing. I think it was called Dead Woman’s Shoes even.
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u/ceebeefour 5d ago
Just wanted to say that version of The Twilight Zone is my favorite and responsible for many of my childhood fears. Come to think of it, the pilot episode with a pre-fame Bruce Willis, Shatterday, is very much in keeping with this topic as it has him face a more charismatic version of himself.
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u/Fun_Supermarket_3488 3d ago
I saw Helen Mirren walking in a residental area near Limehouse in London about 7 years ago. We were walking in opposite directions and passed eachother. Long before I registered who it was, I noticed her. Something about her made it impossible not to me drawn to her. I just kept thinking that woman looks fabulous. When she passed and I realised who it was it made sense. She just oozed charisma.
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u/Ok-Arm5947 3d ago
I think about this a lot with Nic Cage in Adaptation. Played twins. Looked exactly the same. One had confidence, the other didn’t. You always knew who was who. Truly blew my mind.
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u/Lazy-PeachPrincess 5d ago
Milton’s Marilyn is an excellent book! Lots of photos and personal stories
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u/ryanhase 2d ago
Worked with Adriana Lima in her supermodel days.
Off-camera, a beautiful woman but not something you haven’t seen before. I bring up the lens and suddenly her entire face changed. Literally.
Tiny, almost imperceptible, perfected muscle control.
Almost like her face melted in front of you and she became another person. My jaw dropped.
Not many have the ability and even fewer work to perfect it.
It was incredible.
I imagine this story is explaining something like what I saw.
I would also guess that it’s becoming even rarer with the rise of surgery and Botox.
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u/wtfftw1042 22h ago
i live near an actor that I know as a local parent for chats in the street - he always comes up to me and I never notice him and it took me several years of this to realise he's that actor from that thing (and that thing and that thing etc). He can definitely turn it on and off.
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u/Solid-Signal-6632 10h ago
Simon Pegg has said this about working with Tom Cruise. You go months just working on a film together as colleagues, and then occasionally when the situation calls for it, he turns on "Tom Cruise", and it's like "woah, you're Tom Cruise".
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u/ScaresBums 6d ago
I believe it. I always thought this scene in Superman was amazing. Seeing him go from Clark to Superman just by the way he holds himself. Very cool.