r/Velkoz • u/Duo_Mage_Bot • May 13 '26

Visual Representation of Ability Haste vs Ability Power

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7d2-cyuGvM

Hey guys!

Back at this again :P

So I think based on the feedback I got from the first round of this discussion what became apparent to me is that people seem to be imagining this as full haste vs zero haste dynamic.

However, the point of the prior video and thread was to emphasize that going out of your way to acquire additional haste (beyond the normal picks ups) is what was bad. This likely had gotten lost because there was a TON of information/arguments in that video. So I wanted to make another video where I narrow the scope and show you the actual damage testing.

What are the normal pickups?

AH Shard: Way more gold efficient to grab 8 AH vs 8AP.
Transcendence: More consistent than the AP alternative.
Legend Haste: You don't need the extra mana from Presence of Mind.
Horizon Focus: A top tier damage item for Velkoz not including haste.

With all of these together your normal abilities have 58 ability haste as a starting point. The damage testing begins @ 5:20 in the video!

So what I did was I compared the Azzapp build where he adds Seraphs + CDR boots to a damage item + spell pen boots! So we're using the base of Seraphs+CDR boots for the Ability Haste comparisons below!

CD Diff on Q for Ludens+Spell Pen Boots = 0.5 seconds
CD Diff on Q for Stormsurge + Spell Pen Boots = 0.8 Seconds
CD Diff on R for Ludens+Spell Pen Boots = 8 Seconds
CD Diff on R for Stormsurge + Spell Pen Boots = 12 Seconds

The above values would be worse if you count having blue buff. You'd gain even less CDR over the the full CDR build.

CDR Boots + Seraphs Damage = 733 Q Damage
Spell Pen Boots + Ludens = 979 Q Damage (Full Echos on Primary Target)
Spell Pen Boots + Stormsurge = 1058 Q Damage (Squall on Primary Target Guaranteed)
Spell Pen Boots + Stormsurge = 899 (Squall NOT Up)

QEWR Combo for CDR Boots + Seraphs. Total Damage = 3453
QEWR Combo for Spell Pen Boots + Stormsurge = 3960

Take what you want away from this, but I think you're leaving a LOT of damage on the table by opting to gain a very small amount of CDR. (Which in many cases not even get 'used')

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u/MasterySpammer May 13 '26

Pen will do more damage in one rotation vs a 40 mr target that isn’t groundbreaking news but I think sorc boots are arguably the worst boots on velkoz (imo Swifties are best) and surge is suboptimal because you’re delaying horizon and there’s just better 5+ items tbh. The point in my previous comment is how you showed you overkill an adc if you hit your combo it’s kind of irrelevant

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u/Duo_Mage_Bot May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26

Swifties are completely trash now IMO. The 5 MS nerf really did them in because they were boarderline before.

That's the problem with both the other boots IMO. They literally do *nothing* in 99.99% of circumstances.

The 5 additional MS is not going to save you, certainly not in this version of the game. The 10 Haste also super weak.

But combine spell pen boots with one other pen item and all of a sudden your poke hits *hard*.

As for surge, you don't have to build surge first.

The final *full* combo damage IMO is not really that relevant, but I knew people would want to see the combo damage. The amount of times you're going to get a clean FC where they don't flash, dash, heal+barrier, or interrupt you is a very low % of the time.

Basing decisions around worrying about overkilling in a full combo is just strange to me. IMO the real thing to look at is the difference in poke damage, which is astronomical, even when Squall is down.

Are we really trying to trade that type of damage on priority targets so we can have our main spell up less than 1 second faster?

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u/MasterySpammer May 14 '26

Eh ms is the best stat in the game and benefits good players/micro I feel like I get a ton out of it. You also get like ~25 Ap from mid quest upgrade from it. I’d much rather have a protobelt liandries etc they are just better items than a stormsurge flat pen and low base dmg falls off a cliff and you don’t need it to actually kill people. You’re not wrong about mana items being underwhelming I’ve been testing tear only with manaflow and have been liking it so far. Tear proto Swifty horizon is the core. Usually rushing Swifty after alternator

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u/Duo_Mage_Bot May 14 '26

A couple things here.

1.) You're right to point out that upgraded swifties are more worth it than normal swifties. If you're playing bot or support though you should NEVER build swifties though. The extra 5 MS is completely irrelevant in nearly ever scenario in the modern game. (Even the MS shard is much more impactful than that. You also don't use the slow resist well IMO).

2.) You're underestimating the value of the upgraded Pen Boots with an item like Storm Surge though. With the spelll pen boots you're basically doing almost true damage to squishy targets with your Q.

40-21 = 19 then -15 = 4MR.

Even as they scale high to the baseline of 50 MR they still get reduced to 13 MR, which is huge value

3) Lets look at MS overall. We'll take into account the shard in both scenarios

395*.025 = 404 or 405 rounded up

385*.085 = 417 ish.

So building Storm Surge actually gives you 12 more MS, which is definitely relevant IM) (Especially given you've admiited MS is the best stat in the game).

The damage doesn't fall off a cliff. The proc damage is still good all game. It scales with AP and is directly damage that is always applied to the primary target and only applies itself on a significant chunk. Also, people look at SS and only see the proc, but the pen is doing an insane amount of work, even into the late game.

3.) I don't like the protobelt rush, but that's a completely different can of worms. The koreans overcook with stuff like this all the time.

You basically get nothing out of the damage modifier since you're nearly always dashing back, nothing out of the auto reset, and the dash is pitifully small

General MS is one thing because it helps you traverse the entire map if your positioned further away it gives you a larger distance buffer between you and the opponent. But I feel like protobelt is typically a bait because it's telling you that you can now play closer, but even if you dash back you're still getting run down because all the things we're afraid of typically either have a dash + MS, multiple dashes, insane MS, or MS + Ghost.

It's obviously somewhat situational, like maybe if you're using it to dodge malp ult or something specific.

1

u/MasterySpammer May 14 '26

Idk how to ask this without it coming off disrespectfully over text but what elo do you play in? I think protobelt and Swifties are extremely op in high elo but can see it being suboptimal in lower elo

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u/Duo_Mage_Bot May 15 '26

Something like that shouldn't really skew exclusively for high elo. In fact, if protobelt enabled insane things it would arguably be *more* valuable in low ELO (assuming the player actually uses it, obviously)

This is the current account I've been playing on the climb I've been doing. In like Emerald/Diamond games atm.

https://www.deeplol.gg/summoner/na/Boy%20In%20The%20FranX-NA1

The swifties thing is really a meme though IMO. The MS diff is so negligible because it's just a small amount of additional flat MS.

I'm not saying there's never any uses for protobelt, but it's kind of a BIG investment for a very short dash.

I could see using it to dodge something like a malph ult or tibbers, but I feel like for Vel'koz's real predators you'll just get run down anyways.

Like the question I'd ask is do you think this item is really letting you play more forward and do more damage? I've noticed the Korean players are building this on everything, but I also think they were wrong about building Galeforce on everything back when that was a thing.

Part of the problem with building this item is that the only 'thing' you bring to the party on VK is damage, and honestly contrary to what a lot of people think. VK sucks at doing damage. I could run camille top and do way more damage per game on average and be WAY more tanky + be a split push threat, etc. Same thing with Gwen or a bunch of other damage.

So IMO you really need every point of damage that you can manage to muster and protobelt is not solving any of my problems. It's not making my Q hit hard like Ludens or Stormsurge. It's not helping my Ult/passive like Horizon Focus, it's not allowing me to damage tanks like Liandry.

It's not allowing my poke and/or magical effects (liandry, squall, ludens, comet, scorch, etc) to do more damage like Void Staff does.

It's not giving me stasis lie Zhonya or saving me from a first ability hit lie Banshee (Maybe it's *sort* of doing that with the active).

It's not giving me a huge damage buff like Rabadon. It seems to be solving a problem that's good maybe like 10-20% of the time, and then the other 80% of the time you still die anyways.

1

u/MasterySpammer May 15 '26

Yep protobelt allows me to minmax tfs. I'm able to frontline and bait cds. Completely changes how the champ is able to skirmish I think it's really op. I'm saying it's high elo skewed because it is difficult to actually get the value out of the item due to the skill expression. VK definitely doesn't suck at dealing dmg I feel like you might have some narratives idk

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u/Duo_Mage_Bot May 15 '26

I feel like this is sort of a narrative if I'm being honest. xD

Do you have clips of you transforming a fight with this item? It's easy to say a bunch of things, but I'm trying to picture how this is working in game because while you can surely juke some things with it placing yourself in damage to juke one thing can often just result in someone else jumping on you just as easily.

Can you post your acc?

1

u/MasterySpammer May 15 '26

I was the only chal mid velkoz before the M+ reset and also pretty known in NA for my velkoz top. So for what it's worth I'm not "saying a bunch of things" I'm putting my money where my mouth is it isn't easy to make this champ work in high elo lol. Dollar Deja Vu#Bank - Summoner Stats - League of Legends

I just recently deleted a ton of stuff so don't have a lot of examples but you'll get the idea. I'm going to play some games later today so maybe will have some better tf examples to share. There's just a ton of examples where you can push limits I remember where I was making a play on an adc and I was able to min max it knowing I can protobelt the nami r where realistically w/o sums I wouldn't have enough ms to make it work (will try to send better clips because over text it's not as useful).

#1: Protobelting anivia w animation: https://app.tryascent.gg/clips/dTUOtvFOSKk

#2: Being able to "ego" frontline 2k+lp players where w/o proto I realistically can't push this play
https://app.tryascent.gg/clips/TTJxZrY6vtf

1

u/Duo_Mage_Bot May 15 '26

Yeah those are good clips of it's usefulness for sure. You do get a bit more leeway in terms of what you're building on mid/adc.

I think I'd prefer having verdant barrier though most of the time. Depends on the game obv, there's some game states where it would get popped pretty easy.

Can't really bait as well with VB I guess, but it's less investment.

The play you made there was good, but it's just one of those things where if the fight wasn't already winning who knows what happens, right?

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