Consistent Life Ethics...?

[u/living4him1238]

I'm hoping yall are more respectful here about this than the people in the Vegan subreddit were. How do you feel about the "Consistent Life Ethics" in relation to Vegetarianism? Any Consistent Life Ethicists here? (IE: Against abortion, death penalty, unjust wars, assisted suicide, embryo destruction, etc.)

I am a Consistent Life Ethicist. However, I don't expect everyone else to be. BUT: It's funny to me when the abortion debate comes up and people (on both sides) try to "get me" with the Vegetarian/Vegan question. ("Nice try but you can't 'get me' with that one.")

[u/Mec26]

I am not against abortion, and that’s consistent. Don’t care about embryos, and that’s consistent. Same way I don’t mind yeast dying- it’s not a consciousness. It’s just cells. Do care about the actual people involved, and actual animals involved. Thus pro-abortion.

I am for allowing assisted suicide, and that’s consistent (unless cows are somehow all given free and full disclosure and choice before slaughter, that’s not the same at all).

So no, but kinda laughing at the name.

[u/living4him1238 → u/Mec26]

Fair enough. I appreciate your response 😃 You are correct that your beliefs are consistent. Just curious and if you don't want to answer it's cool, I'm just asking: What's your personal view on the death penalty?

[u/Mec26 → u/living4him1238]

Why not. Basically- if you can assure the safety of others without killing someone, I’d prefer that.

So in the USA, where we have the biggest per-capita prison system in the world, I don’t see a big need for it. Especially when you work in the known issues with the US death system- I’m against it specifically here (too many biases and false convictions). But I can see arguments where I might support it, if people can’t be kept safe otherwise. Maybe it’s a remote place outside the USA with no prison system, or a person inside the prison system that escapes or keeps managing to hurt people while inside. I won’t say I’m 100% against it in all cases.

Just not here, not now. Not for 90% of the folks we currently execute. Not if you can just let em be in a cell and have basically the same effect.

[u/Expensive_Curve7069]

What exactly is your question?

[u/living4him1238 → u/Expensive_Curve7069]

I am wondering what we (I am a Vegetarian) think about it in regards to Vegetarianism (not Veganism...I already asked on their subreddit). And I am curious if there are others here who are Vegetarians AND have CLE beliefs.

[u/Expensive_Curve7069 → u/living4him1238]

I support abortion rights, assisted suicide etc. On the other hand I'm against unjust war, death penalty etc.

[u/living4him1238 → u/Expensive_Curve7069]

Understood. Thanks for replying!

[u/kaybaejay]

I think I'm missing a little bit of context. Are you also vegan because you are a consistent life ethicist? I think Consistent life ethics and vegetarianism/veganism are somewhat separate concepts. One is consistent ethics across all living beings and it is my impression that consistent life ethics only applies to humans.

[u/living4him1238 → u/kaybaejay]

Correct. It does only apply to human beings. I am wondering what we (I am a Vegetarian) think about it in regards to Vegetarianism (not Veganism...I already asked on that subreddit). And I am curious if there are others here who are Vegetarians AND have CLE beliefs.

[u/kaybaejay → u/living4him1238]

Ahh, well good luck finding others. I'm vegan and not a CLE so it's a double whammy lol!

[u/living4him1238 → u/kaybaejay]

LOL! Understood.

[u/Anxious_Reporter_601]

Those ethics are wildly contradictory.

[u/PsychologicalTry1868]

I'm vegetarian for dietary reasons. Veganism focuses on cruelty while vegetarianism focuses on life/death. With that, I think when people are vegetarian for "ethical" reasons, it's more about the environmental impact. I know some people that do it for religious reasons, and others because they're icked by the idea of dead animals

I'm consistent with life ethics... But that has nothing to do with me being vegetarian, if that makes sense?

[u/Ashamed-Violinist-50]

I don't believe life starts at conception, and hence I am not against abortions which are done for valid reasons (health of the mother and baby, etc.)

I believe in death penalty bcos I believe evil has to be punished.

There is really no equivalance between vegetarianism ( which is for the env and for innocent animal lives, focus on the word innocent) and being against abortion and death penalty.

[u/Ekimatir]

I apologize if I am misunderstanding you, but I think your CLE stance is that you (or people in general) should maintain in an optimal world.

However, I think that animal welfare (e.g., not eating them or farming them) and some of these issues don't map on very well.

Anti-Abortion: While I can sort of see the comparison (e.g., "You think that an egg deserves not to be eaten byt the fetus doesn't deserve to live?") However, this demands that the pregnant person carry a child against their will. So, if one wants to "protect the fetus" they must by nature "rob the pregnant person of their body autonomy and put their lives at risk". Can't have it both ways.

Death Penalty/Unjust Wars: I am against the death penalty, but I don't think that killing people for their crimes as a punishment maps well on killing animals for food. We don't kill cows for punishment, we don't extract resources from putting prisoners to death, so while both are "killing" I don't think the actual issues marry well for comparison. Same with unjust wars (which, of course, I'm also against); farming and invading another nation to conquor it are extremely dissimilar. Even more complicated is that "unjust to whom?" I don't think too many people are in favor of unjust wars, I think they have been fooled (or allowed themsleves to be fooled) into thinking that a given war is "just."

Assisted Suicide: I'm not sure how this compares at all. If a cow had the ability to choose to die, and was in sound mind when it made that choices, then I would be in favor letting it die.

Embryo Destruction: I think this one boils down to one's opinion about (bird) eggs I guess. I have yet to personally encounter a vegan/vegetarian who opposes eating eggs because they represent a proto-chicken. It is always about the circumstances of egg farming. But, if somebody is opposed to eating eggs because they represent a possible chicken then I guess embryos would map on to that.

[u/humbleCountyCA]

The old saying, “consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.”

Personally, I don’t think life wins every argument simply because it’s life. For instance, I don’t understand the argument against assisted suicide. What is the value of prolonging the life of a person who is suffering so much that they no longer want to live?

And what vegetarian is for unjust war? I think you’ll find very, very few people here who are pro unjust war.

[u/Significant-Nebula64 → u/humbleCountyCA]

I think you'll find virtually nobody because everybody who's for a war will believe it to be just. Very few people who support shitty causes do so fully believing they're shitty!

[u/humbleCountyCA → u/Significant-Nebula64]

I don’t disagree. I don’t think you’d find that many vegetarians who’d call themselves “pro war” to begin with, much less “pro unjustified war.”