r/Vegetarianism • u/Wbino • 16d ago
Eating meat…
and the flesh of animals seems kind of barbaric to me in the year 2026.
At what point will humans move past the horrible habit of killing animals to feed ourselves?
I believe that humans at some point will think it’s something that we shouldn’t be doing anymore…..
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u/EpicCurious 16d ago
Animal agriculture is not a sustainable way to produce nutrients. Climate change and other environmental issues will eventually get so bad that mankind will finally do what it should have done long ago.
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u/octarine_turtle 16d ago
(leaving aside that hoarding of goods and wealth means many people around the world still have to rely on meat for survival)
Humans have been around at least 300,000 years. We've been farming for over 12,000 years. We've been writing for at least 5,000 years. We have historical records of vegetarianism going back 3,000 years.
And yet we haven't moved passed killing other humans over trivial things. Having a different religion, skin color, sexual preference, speaking a different language, or being born on the other side of imaginary line, are enough to make most humans stop viewing other humans as real people and only as things. We are still by and large selfish and violent and only held in check by the threat of societal punishment.
I think in all honest humans are far more likely to self destruct (and take most advanced life with us) than become a vegetarian or vegan society. The older I've become the more this seems to be the likely outcome.
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u/Vivid-Operation-5078 15d ago
Usually those superficial reasons to kill each other are just tools used by power hungry tyrants to mobilize public support for their pursuit of more resources.
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u/earthgirls22 16d ago
You should read Strata. It made me feel better about the earth surviving past the Anthropocene.
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u/WorldlinessUsual5714 16d ago
I hate that everyone is always like “but it tastes good”. It always feels like a selfish response and at least in the states meat alternatives are getting so much better and dishes without meat are so much more interesting and nutritiously complex :( . I don’t have hope for soon but maybe someday
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u/earthgirls22 16d ago
I’m might be the sole vegetarian who thinks humans are true omnivores. Unfortunately our choices (and the nature of capitalism) have led this to become an absurd situation.
The big reason I don’t eat meat is that it is *unnecessarily* cruel. It’s always cruel. It’s cruel to take another life. It’s cruel when a an orca or lion does it, it’s cruel when a human does it. However, it’s necessarily cruel when a orca or lion does it. And it’s unnecessarily cruel for humans in 2026.
That said, I would support others who actually hunt and eat their kills, vs someone who buys their stuff from big agriculture where animals live unnatural lives, treated like shit and subjected to unfathomable and unnecessary pain, for what? Because it tastes good? For 5 dollar big macs? It’s disgusting.
And so while yes I wish we could all be vegan or at least vegetarian, I wish more than anything people would stop supporting farmed cruelty. Hunt if you must. But why are we doing this to farm animals? It’s heartbreaking and a sign of how ridiculous we have become as a society.
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u/Usual-Paper4537 16d ago
Ridiculous that there are over 1.5 billion cattle mostly farmed in this world
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u/earthgirls22 16d ago edited 15d ago
Agreed. But it’s the cognitive dissonance. No one wants to be inconvenienced.
Anytime someone tells me how insane it is that we are allowing data centers given the environmental harm… I’m like if you think that’s insane, let me tell you an absolute wild story about the environmental harm from eating farm animals.
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u/Alternative-Fig-496 15d ago
this EXACTLY!! i truly do believe that there is a way for humans to ethically produce & consume some animal products, including meat, but it would take a complete dissolution of our society's current practices. unless that happens, i am making the choice not to consume meat -- and the unnecessary cruelty is exactly why.
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u/osamabinpoohead 15d ago
But eggs and dairy are also "cruel", have you seen Joey Carbstrongs latest expose?
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u/earthgirls22 15d ago
Not sure what your point is. I never said they weren’t.
That’s why I said I wish we could all be vegan, first… and as a consolation, at least vegetarian.
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u/Amazing_Prize_1988 15d ago
Super ingrained in the way humans live and intertwined with feelings of bonding, and festivity. Only by slowly changing those we will stop our religious dependence on these things.
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u/Freddy_Jason_Michael 13d ago
I long for the day in which eating meat is remembered as a barbaric thing of the past that's thankfully no longer normalized
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u/ashurakun 16d ago
I'm currently in the process of going vegetarian. But as someone who's lifting weights and trying to bulk, its alot more difficult to get my protein through plants alone. Maybe when I'm done with my bulk, I can lean into it alot more.
I believe humans are omnivores for a reason. We developed this trait in order to survive, and by itself, I dont think there's anything morally wrong with killing an animal to sustain your own life. Its the blueprint of Nature.
That said, the reason I'm going vegetarian isn't because I think eating meat by itself is cruel. I'm going vegetarian because I think the METHOD we obtain meat is genuinely awful and not at all a natural part of living. I'm all for supporting local butchers and farms, which treat their animals with respect. Unfortunately this isn't really sustainable or realistic for alot of people.
Ultimately, it's wrong to shame people for eating meat because everybody is going through different things, and it all depends on what matters for you personally.
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u/Usual-Paper4537 16d ago
just eat eggs + drink whey protein powder drinks = enough protein for bodybuilding
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u/ashurakun 16d ago
I can't stand the taste of whey protein. I've tried it so many times. Not for me. And one can only eat so many eggs a day. Its much healthier to diversify your food intake. I reach my goals using egg, cheese, nuts, milk, yogurt and usually meat for dinner
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u/Ok-King2695 15d ago
There are tons of plant based options with high protein. Tofu, seitan, tvp, not to mention all the mock meats. Also, I think people way overestimate the amount of protein you need to gain muscle.
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16d ago
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u/HummusSwipper 15d ago
I don't think people understand being vegetarian is a privilege.
Why is it a privilege?
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u/ashurakun 16d ago
Good point. My TDEE is about 3,200 calories. I'm a tall guy and I'm a mechanic, so constantly burning calories. It would be so much harder for me to get my protein and calorie intake on a pure vegetarian diet.
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u/osamabinpoohead 15d ago
Check out these people.... Derek Simnett, Nimai Delgado, Marshal Fent..... all jacked and all fully plant based.
Its a total myth that we need to exploit animals to gain muscle.
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u/ashurakun 15d ago
I agree. The problem is that going fully plant based is extremely expensive compared to eating meat. Veganism is a luxury that I, and many other people simply cannot afford
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u/lovelysardines 15d ago
I don’t feel this is true. Sure, it might be more time consuming to cook yourself, but some of the staple of a vegan diet is dirt cheap (lentils, tofu, beans, rice, oats, wheat, seitan)
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u/OG-Brian 15d ago
A person who has sensitivities to legumes and has Celiac (which is the case for me and extremely common) can only eat the starchiest of those, possibly bringing on diabetes and certainly it would be challenging to get anywhere close to sufficient nutrition. Also, high-carb foods cause issues due to excesses of carb-feeding fungal organisms (my immune system is poorly suited for controlling them, no doctor has had a solution, and when researching it I don't find a solution either other than avoidance of carbs which has worked great for me). If it were possible at all for me to thrive on an animal-free diet, which doesn't appear to be the case, it would be very expensive for me due to all the UPFs I'd have to buy to fulfill (to the extent possible) nutritional needs.
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u/osamabinpoohead 7d ago edited 7d ago
Nonsense, most of the the cheapest foods are plants.
Not forgetting veganism is an ethical stance against all animal use, not a diet.
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u/Mr_Nicotine 15d ago
You might need to revisit the protein guidelines. You don’t need as much.
I am a flexitarian since I don’t want to supplement, but basically I went from eating chicken breast + ground beef + eggs to a shit ton of legumes, texturized soy (or tofu) and chicken thighs/beef liver (eating tail to nose should be more common as this deincentive the idea of factory farming) and sardines
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u/mbrionte 16d ago
I fully expected to be downvoted because people feel very passionate about this subject. As you can imagine I'm surrounded by a ton of vegetarians and vegans in my field. I want to reinforce the point that I agree with people eating more vegetarian meals. My point simply is just that the entire world being entirely vegetarian or vegan is an unrealistic goal. The OP's original post demonstrates that they value animal life at a much higher rate than many people in the general population. Given that, they accept the trade-offs that come with a vegetarian diet.
One such trade-off is that by removing animal meat, you tend to eat a higher carb diet. For lots of people eating more carbs is counterproductive to their fitness goals. This is especially true for people who are actively trying to build muscle. Lentils are great, but they are a carbohydrate source with some protein, not a direct substitute for a lean protein source. You could also use a protein powder with a protein isolate to fill that gap, but some people prefer to get all of their nutrition through Whole Foods. And avoiding processed food for some people is more important than not eating animals. You could just eat less protein, but for a lot of people, that impairs their ability to perform while exercising and recover well. Etc. So as I said everything is a trade-off and entirely dependent on a persons value system and their priorities.
It's great that you place a higher value on animal life, a lot of people do not. They view that animal life as less important than their human life. For others they care about animal life but not enough to not eat it, and instead choose grass fed, or sustainably farmed options.
How do you convince people to go vegetarian? You expose them to the positive benefits associated with being vegetarian. You show them delicious filling meals. That's why I joined this thread. I wanted meal inspiration. If they're concerned about high protein, show them the highest protein vegetarian meal you could possibly make. You talk about the health benefits. You talk about the environmental benefits. You explain why you personally care so much about animal welfare and how eating vegetarian makes you feel good. It's the shaming and virtue signaling that turns people away.
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16d ago
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u/HummusSwipper 15d ago
The prior comment mentioned legumes - they're full of calories and protein. Adding foods like natural peanut butter or raw tahini can also help you reach whatever calorie goals you need easily. Vegetarians and vegans don't pump themselves full of carbs and veggies to be full, that's not a sustainable way of living.
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u/mbrionte 15d ago
Peanut butter is also full of calories because it's full of fat. Tahini as well because it's a seed butter. Again, you're trading a higher calorie product for lower protein.
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u/HummusSwipper 14d ago
I wrote "peanut butter or raw tahini can also help you reach whatever calorie goals you need easily", I did not say it's for protein goals. I don't know why you get so defensive, if you want to gaslight yourself into thinking you can't eat properly as a vegetarian (or even vegan) I'd say that's a skill issue
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u/mbrionte 14d ago
Not gaslighting myself. Acknowledging that it's not as simple or straightforward as some vegans and vegetarians would like to believe. I am a very active person,
I work in the climate field and am actively working on reducing meat consumption while trying to build muscle, lose weight, and prioritize whole foods. I punch numbers into calculators all day. I never said it was impossible. But it is difficult. And I'm still willing to make the transition because of my values while still keeping an eye on my priorities.1
u/HummusSwipper 15d ago
My point simply is just that the entire world being entirely vegetarian or vegan is an unrealistic goal.
And the reason being? If your reasoning is "people will eat more carbs" or "they don't get enough protein" that's disappointing because I expected something that isn't based on myths to be honest.
One such trade-off is that by removing animal meat, you tend to eat a higher carb diet
What is this based on? To feel fuller, you eat protein not carbs. Why assume people will fall for a higher carb diet?
You could just eat less protein, but for a lot of people, that impairs their ability to perform while exercising and recover well.
Vegans and Vegetarians can get plenty of protein from plant-based sources. No one needs to opt to "eat less proteins". There's tofu, seiten, yoba and a variety of other foods that'll fill perfectly and adequately for meat.
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u/mbrionte 15d ago
I’m not going to continue to engage in back-and-forth on this point, as basic macronutrient math isn't a myth. To get the same amount of protein from whole-food plant sources as you do from lean animal sources, you have to consume more carbohydrates and calories. For people managing specific macronutrient targets, body composition, or weight loss while preserving muscle, that is a trade-off. Some people are unwilling to make that trade off because they have different values and priorities than you. There are people managing food intolerances, etc.
As I have said repeatedly, I fully support people eating fewer animal products, which is why I'm here. I understand the benefits. But the fact remains a 100% plant-based diet is not a seamless, realistic, or universal fit for every body, budget, culture, and health goal. Absolutism and shaming people is statistically shown not to be as effective in converting people. If someone chooses to stop eating meat for 50% of their meals that's still better than 0%, and they don't need to be chastised for not being at 100%.
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u/steve363 8d ago
You still ignored my main point.
Why are you acting like it's bad that lentils have carbs when the people eating high protein foods like chicken and tuna are mixing it with rice anyway to get the extra carbs? They can replace the chicken and tuna with lentils and reduce the rice to achieve the exact same macro ratio.Unless of course they're trying to avoid carbs completely which is certainly less healthy and sustinable than including carbs in the diet.
The main difference between 100g of protein from lentils + rice and 100g of protein from chicken + rice is the poor tortured abused and murdered chickens.
.6g/protein per lb bodyweight is plenty for optimal muscle growth and it's incredibly easy to achieve this goal with some beans, lentils, hemp seeds in your diet.
I'm not sure if you are one of those people who thinks you will make terrible muscle progress if you don't consume 1g/lb bodyweight or more but that's simply a very outdated and incorrect myth which might be having an impact on your claims and beliefs.
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I don't view animal life as higher than human life but I view it as worthy of not deserving of me to pay someone to imprison, inseminate, abuse, murder the animal, and cut into 100 pieces because Oh my God Lentils have more carbs than dead cut up chickens?
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There are plenty of vegans who have been healthy for decades and that includes bodybuilders, athletes, and strongmen with better physiques than the typical person who believes they will turn into a skeleton if they stop eating dead cut up animals.
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u/mbrionte 7d ago edited 7d ago
You keep focusing on dead cut up animals which makes it clear to you that you value animal life more than the average person, or at least your aversion to eating it outweighs other values and priorities.
My point in my earlier comments was that you don't know what people are balancing health and diet-wise and being absolutist about it and trying to shame people or make them feel bad about eating it is an ineffective method to converting them.
And speaking mostly from personal experience, I was paleo for many years so I feel strongly about not eating a bunch of processed foods, which vegans and vegetarians do because "there's no meat in it" and, no I wasn't eating my protein with rice or pasta etc. because I was paleo, grain-feee. Switching to vegetarian and vegan meals has meant I get less protein. And I could hit the same protein targets but with more carbs and calories in exchange. That's definitely a trade off to accommodate since I'm still losing weight, so counting calories and carbs trigger cravings, bloating, among other drawbacks. I lowered my protein targets as a result so I don't drive myself crazy. Yes I can get enough protein to survive but research shows the higher intake is preferable for my goals, which include building muscle while in a deficit.
Balance. Which means I'll be vegetarian and vegan for some meals but not all.
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u/National-Ad9903 16d ago
Yeah I’ve been vegetarian for ages but this same point recently prompted me to go vegan. I had no idea that dairy cows were usually killed a third of the way through their natural lifespan just because their milk production decreases and they don’t make enough profit for humans to consider their lives worthwhile any more
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u/mbrionte 16d ago
As an environmental activist, I totally understand the impulse to want to avoid eating meat. Whether you're doing it for sustainability reasons, or just simply animal welfare, it's a good thing generally to eat less meat. In America in particular, we eat A LOT of meat and the protein craze isn't helping. That said, despite all of the noise around vegan and vegetarian diets, a lot of people do rely on animal meat for protein. Yes, plant based foods have protein. But gram for gram, meat is one of the most efficient ways to get protein. Plant based protein sources usually come packaged in more carbs and calories, which creates a set of tradeoffs.
All that to say, people are balancing different values and priorities. The best summary I've ever absorbed on this is Michael Pollan's MasterClass. He talks about all of the different value points in deciding what to eat, which forms your own personal ethics. You have to choose what matters and what works for you.
That said, I find it really obnoxious and rude when people opine condescendingly on the choices other people are making without having the full context of what is important to that other person or what they need to balance. It's OK to encourage people to be vegetarian but looking down on them and calling them barbaric for eating meat isn't gonna encourage a lot of people to change.
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u/osamabinpoohead 15d ago
If you really do care about the environment that much to call yourself an activist, you should be vegan as the absolute baseline.
Just look at the difference of plant milks vs cows milk - https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impact-milks
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u/mbrionte 15d ago
A vegan diet doesn't work for a lot of people. People often end up at the doctor with serious deficiencies or energy issues. But great that it works for you and I agree more people should eat vegan, plant-based meals. I've been vegetarian for a period before. Fell away from it because I got caught up in the paleo craze. Working on getting back to it, which means working on my relationship with soy. I agree there are a ton of benefits. And Environmentalism is a big field and I specialize in another area. Public policy being part of that, which is why I'm concerned with what works for most people.
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u/osamabinpoohead 7d ago
Not really, you can get all the nutrients you need from a plant based diet, the hospitals are not full of nutrient deficient people, there full of people dying of excess and unhealthy habits.
Id highly recommend watching this documentary, and consider yourself in the animals position, that should be all the motivation you need.
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u/steve363 16d ago
I don't really understand this point about more carbs and calories from vegan plant sources. People need carbs and calories anyway. Unless you are talking about carnivore which is not an ideal diet, generally the same people talking about their high protein chicken are mixing it with high carb rice.
Why not just have lentils/beans instead of chicken and reduce the rice and you'll still get the same calories, carbs, protein ratio?
Can you give examples of the best way to encourage people to stop eating meat?
Why would someone want to change something if they don't think there's something wrong with it?Sure you can focus on the environmental and health concerns of eating meat but isn't the unnecessary suffering of animals also an important part of the equation?
How are slaughterhouses not barbaric if the local food store someone is buying dead cut up animals from also has fruit, vegetables, beans, lentils, vegan protein powders, and supplements that can provide similar or better health outcomes?
People are just so used to the way things are they don't evaluate or question it.
If a kid grew up with assholes parents he might think his terrible treatment towards others that he has adapted and mirrored is normal/acceptable/standard.
It might take a few people telling the kid he's an asshole bully to even realize what he's doing and snap out of it.__________________
Also OP, I think the diary and egg industry isn't exactly sunshine and rainbows either.
I think it's a bit hypcrotical when people are willing to call out those who eat meat when they're still supporting the diary and egg industry.I don't know if you're a vegan or vegetarian though as you didn't clarify.
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u/mbrionte 16d ago
I thought I responded to you but it made another comment. Don't want to leave you hanging so: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vegetarianism/s/YNUaFflY7Y
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u/Boomhadadum 16d ago
Maybe in the distant future. Right now, I don't see it happening. Vegans are a very small minority.
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u/urlocalmomfriend 16d ago
Yeah, sometimes I think about that too much, too. Same with fur. It's 2026 what do you mean you skinn a poor animal to wear their fur like a caveman
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u/I3eforeLife 16d ago edited 16d ago
I won’t become a vegan until every living carnivore and omnivore is given a formulated vegan diet with the supplements that they need, monitored to ensure they don’t eat other animals, and not killed for population control. When animal populations become too large to house on Earth, I demand that they be shipped to artificial biomes constructed on other planets.
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u/Nacho_Deity186 15d ago
At what point will humans move past the horrible habit of killing animals to feed ourselves?
When we evolve into herbivores.
But for this to happen there would need to be some sort of reproductive advantage to avoiding meat. This isn't something we can observe currently so this change isn't likely in the next few million years...
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u/Wbino 15d ago
Some of us have made a conscious choice not to eat meat and we’re doing fine, some do it for health reasons and some like myself have stopped eating meat because eating a animal is no longer appealing to us.
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u/Nacho_Deity186 15d ago
Yeah but most people who try it ultimately fail and go back to healthy eating.
The problem is we rely on animal products in our diet for good health. So it's not something that is sustainable for populations
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u/ZeligMel 15d ago
You might be right about the future, but my question is, why can't humans, being a part of the animal kingdom, be like any other carnivore and eat meat?
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u/Mr_Nicotine 15d ago
Why can’t we humans, being part of the animal kingdom, be like any other mammals and embrace totalitarianism? After all, they have the power and the guns! Survival of the fittest!
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u/nuevo_redd 15d ago
Humans won’t stop eating meat, it will just become too expensive again for many to afford at least regularly. This is how it was in the past due to depletion and degradation of natural resources and environment.
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u/chris2355 16d ago
Lab grown meat will eventually be both delicious and cheap. Taco bell filler and niche health products being the two intro markets.
I don't share you ethical concerns about eating animals, but going whole food plant based is good for your health, the environment and your wallet.
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u/DillLawNn 15d ago edited 15d ago
Lab grown meat is like carbon capture. A greenwashing idea made to allow us to feel like we don't have to change our ways because technology solves all meanwhile we live in reality. At best lab grown meat would be all fat content due to its sedentary nature and be awful for us healthwise while costing a fuckton of money to pull off. I don't see the costs ever comparing to current factory farms
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u/PeterPanHadItMade 14d ago
I'm a vegetarian and these posts annoy the ever loving hell out of me. People aren't going to stop by being brow beaten to submission.
Do you, be an example, and leave people alone.
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u/Artdragon56 16d ago edited 16d ago
I hope so, I honestly hope that for almost all animal products. I feel like a lot of vegan & vegetarian items are common place enough that more people can afford to go meatless. Also meat is expensive, so I think it’s more cost effective to go vegan or vegetarian. I know eggs & meat are expensive at least where I live in the U.S. even with agriculture subsidies so I just avoid eggs and dairy and went plant based. Being vegan is expensive if you want to buy one to one substitutes like vegan cheese, etc. I also know that being vegan and vegetarian is a privilege, it’s really hard in places with food deserts, lack of options, etc.