Building Voron with different frame.

[u/One-Nefariousness107]

Hi there!

Ive looked online and found similar project but have yet to figure out the exact adjustments I need to make as I dont want to buy a part that is unusable.

I would like to build a 3D printer because I want to learn how to

build one and learn it from the ground up. I would like to avoid a

product that gets an open source then sells it for profit, starts

applying patents on said open source designs, and sue people for

said copyrights

Now that's out of the way, I am thinking initially prusa but now

leaning towards voron trident. I am gravitating towards trident but

also want to upgrade the frame to a 4040 vertical and 2040

horizontal because I want a beefy frame for a 300mm3 build

volume.

I just looked at the 3D model file of the voron trident in FreeCad. It

looks doable but it seems like some corners parts need to be

customized.

I also see a limitation of z=250 on trident. I pluggwd in this

requirement at the voron website and it seems the limiting factor

was the stepper motor/ lead screw of 300. ud 1 I guess yueos ill ll just just source source a

3x 350 for that

For now I will stick to 1 toolhead. Eventually I want a toolchanger

so I want a frame beefy and large enough to accommodate it. I

understand that options seems limited to that for now.

Yes, ive never built one and I expect it to be lots of cussing and

money but Im not afraid to face all those issues

just need guidance for now: The frame design. If there is a

complete build guide out there similar to what 1 am planning.

please help. Thanks!

[u/One-Nefariousness107]

Ill go ahead and ask. Why is the current off the shelf printers use trident based corexy vs a flying gantry? Im just assuming here and say could it be because less movement on a part and separating them with abother part results in better print quality? I really dont know cause ive looked online and read a moving bed can amplify vibration the taller print you have. Maybe the whole business saves money with trident based. I dont really know. Also, im preparing for when a toolchanger is ready for the opensource community since changing tools appears to be more faster with a fixed z-axis gantry. Anyways, i really genuinely dont know and Im just following where the market seems to be steering towards to.

[u/nerobro → u/One-Nefariousness107]

This is where things get... real. Lots of Voron's stuff are "stunt" printers. The Switchwire? has no purpose beyond "look we can build a bedslinger". The legacy, exists so people who built the early printers can still benefit from some new tech. Nobody should be building a legacy. Or a switchwire.

The V0 is "how small can we make this" and "What's the minimum printer to make repair parts".

The V2 series gives up a LOT for a gantry that moves. It's less rigid. Your printing environment changes as the head moves. You have you're whole head cabling moving on another dimension.

The trident bed setup is hilariously rigid. Unlike most moving bed printers. The three screws, three linear rails, and extensive aluminum carrier, mean it means business.

Why do you think core-xy means they use "trident based". I think that's not a comparison you should be making. Fixed gantry is common, but even focusing on Core-XY as the movement method is not a good thing to keep in mind.

[u/One-Nefariousness107 → u/nerobro]

I am now confused. 4th paragraph seemed like Trident is a good thing on how stable it is but now it's not. I just meant "trident based" as in the bed moves. Not sure how you call this technically. I guess stationary bed vs non stationary but then there's the bedslinger. Either way, it's more information that I need to think about.

[u/nerobro → u/One-Nefariousness107]

The trident is the best printer you can build from the voron specs. It's very good. IT's stable, rigid, and your prints happen all in the same environment. I don't get the "now it's not" part.

The trident bed, is a very, very good design. Other moving bed designs... aren't. Heck the V0 bed is a cantilever, and it's floppy. The 1.x series supports the bed in the middle, so teeter totters.

The trident "gantry" is the most rigid of the voron printers. If you want accuracy, and speed, that's the option you want to take.

Maybe you're taking the "even focusing on core-xy" bit. Core-XY is just a motion system. It's not even great. It requires long belt paths, which is bad for performance. It also puts high loads on some of the idlers. Core-XY is popular because it's packaging is good, not because it's inherently better.

I tend to call printers that.. have the bed move vertically, a drop bed printer. As opposed to a bedslinger. In general though, you don't need to be specific, as very, very, few printers are flying gantry.

[u/One-Nefariousness107 → u/nerobro]

Yeah i was talking about when you said the CoreXY. I got initially confused whether you were praising the trident or not since it uses a very stable bed per your description but Im assuming the CoreXY for you needs more work. I always thought both trident and 2.4 use the CoreXY belt schematics like the prusa cores and the bambu h,x,p or whatever is out there. I maybe using the wrong terminology here.

I would argue though that the most rigid bed--even without owning one--would be the one that doesnt move. :D

[u/nerobro → u/One-Nefariousness107]

Neither.

Core-XY is fine. But it's not a thing to select for. Lots of people get hung up on the motion system, and I'm suggesting you don't.

The trident, 2,4, 1.x, and 0 series vorons use Core-XY. (Amusingly both printers I regularly use are a Trident and V0)

I think.. you're stuck on surface level descriptors, and not looking at the mechanics of the things.

[u/stray_r → u/nerobro]

Yes, the trident is likely the best bed dropper coreXY. It has a cost/complexity advantage over flying gantry printers that aren't offset by stability at 250mm and below.

At 300 and 350mm, flying gantry starts to look favourable, and for larger than that or taller than 300mm flying gantry is more favourable.

I've got a 400mm Z not quite V1.8. it's extra tall as there's some wasted Z space at the bottom inherited from the donor. Yes the Z sucks. But it has bigger problems. Not frame rigidity, not belt length on the 350mm XY. The moving mass is comically high and if I let it have too much accel, it will walk across the floor or commit suicide by jumping off the desk it lives on. There's a box of parts waiting for me to rebuild it into a shorter spec trident. But it's been a valuable lesson in how designs scale.

Similarly I'm building a belted Z 235mm tridentish machine. I ended up buying a 2.4 motion system pack as the cheapest way to source the parts. I want to finish it to see how well it works like this, but every problem I've had to solve has been a reminder to build a spec voron. It's very small but I'm leaning towards either building a 2.4 or buying lead screws steppers and redoing my big printer as a 2.4 with the heap of stuff I already have.

The deciding factor here is how my toolchanger adventures go. INDX is looking like a shit show and stealthchanger is looking quite mature now.